🔧 BUILD LAME Turbo V6 Camaro

[GTPpower]

I'm pretty sure that cutout we talked about a while back is only a 2.5".

 

[v6buicks]

I feel ya man! I ran a dump under my car for a few months. I finally have it all the way back. It’s such a difference it’s crazy. I love it. I’m sure you will too. Let me know how that extended oil drain works. I may buy the same one for my other turbo car.

So far, so good. I have no idea how to know if my turbo is draining properly though. I think I've already compromised my turbo seals from previous mistakes, so I'm assuming it's going to leak anyway. Lol. Time will tell regarding the drain seal though. The o-ring didn't seem to be sized properly.

 

[v6buicks]

I'm pretty sure that cutout we talked about a while back is only a 2.5".

Dang. Thanks anyway!

 

[v6buicks]

So much for leaving it alone. ?

It's funny how things change, but being stuck in this pod for an hour a day with nothing to listen too except for straight piped 3800 moo-mang is already pure torture. It's not good if you jump from a 400hp stick shift Camaro to a sub-100hp Volvo and feel better. That needs to change right now. I'm ditching all the blown out two-ohm speakers and Delco receiver. I think aftermarket receivers can actually look cooler in cars from the 90s and early 00s anyway. I looked forward to the challenge of adding an AUX port and new bulbs to the stock radio, but the labor and cost required to do it to a car that didn't even look stock inside wasn't adding up. It added up even less when I found the old Pioneer stereo from my sister's car in the basement.

Complaint number two is that I couldn't see any of my controls in the morning! I had to turn my map lights on to adjust the blend doors for defrost and heat which isn't cool. This turned out to be much easier to fix than expected. The bulbs have sockets which are external to the HVAC control unit, so you just pull the old bulbs out and push the new ones in. The most difficult part is removing all the connections on the control box itself so that you can pull it out. I was a bit shocked to find the bulbs available at Advance too. They were the smallest bulbs they had!

It's certainly not an exciting update, but this is the kind of stuff that make a car a lot easier to live with. I might even bump the muffled exhaust up in priority. At that point I would feel stupid NOT to drive this to work in cool weather.

 

[v6buicks]

I'm impressed with the design of this door panel, and proud of GM for getting away from those plastic christmas tree clips.

That would certainly cause a bad rattle!

I am super happy with how well these Rockford Fosgate speakers fit. The 6.75" rears slipped in like a glove. The front 6.5" required a new screw hole, but the bracket is plastic so that's no biggie at all. It sounds infinitely better than the stock system could dream of even if it had new Delco speakers. To put the icing on the cake, Crutchfield includes the harness adapters with speaker purchases. No regrets! I'll probably buy from Crutchfield from now on because I'm a sound newb, and they made it very easy.

 

[v6buicks]

Since the speakers are installed, and I'm waiting for my dash kit to come in the mail I decided to tackle another mini-project.

Remember way back to when I was complaining about my clutch feeling weird? Then I bought a tick master cylinder just days before my transmission blew up. Well I still have that master cylinder. Everything but the hose will work for my TKO conversion so I might as well throw this thing on now.

What a pain! This is thing was not easy to install at all. First, you lose the factory u-bolt and slim design which makes factory MC replacement fairly simple. After fumbling around with that fat wire harness in the way for 15 minutes or so, I had to call the fiance out to the garage to hold the thing in place while I threaded the bolts from the inside. Second, I had to find bolts in my orphan bolt box because my kit didn't come with any.

Despite those annoyances, I can already tell that this is one bad unit. After I bled the thing from the top with a vacuum pump, I got in and immediately stalled the engine. I finally have a clutch that grabs! I'm a little weary about the adjustment because I certainly don't want to over extend the pressure plate, but the pedal is super low to the floor. I guess you'll have that when you nearly double the volume of your master. However, it goes into all the gears while the car is sitting stationary without any issue. This is awesome because I could never say the same about the stock MC especially when trying to go into reverse. Who knows. I haven't test driven it yet, so the low pedal may soon feel natural. I can't wait to find out!

The dash kit and antenna adapter are finally getting delivered today, so I should be able to wrap this thing up in time to drive to work tomorrow.

 

[JFish75]

I can relate to it being a 2 person job getting that thing in, it definitely was a pain trying to work it in that small space. It’s a great unit though and I haven’t had any issues with mine since I installed it. It is a low, pedal mine is about the same height as my brake pedal if not a little lower and it grabs pretty much off the floor. It takes a little getting used too but then it’s all good after that. Enjoy!

 

[v6buicks]

I can relate to it being a 2 person job getting that thing in, it definitely was a pain trying to work it in that small space. It’s a great unit though and I haven’t had any issues with mine since I installed it. It is a low, pedal mine is about the same height as my brake pedal if not a little lower and it grabs pretty much off the floor. It takes a little getting used too but then it’s all good after that. Enjoy!

I think the other thing I need to realize is that this was made for the T56. The slave is the same part number if I recall correctly, but the pressure plate throw could be a lot shorter. I turned the turnbuckle out a little before I went to work. If feels a lot better having that extra half inch or so, but if feels more apparent that I have air in the system. Of course I didn't opt to get the speed bleeder when I bought this thing, so I'm stuck resorting to other methods.

In the past I have had the best luck with just sucking the air out of the top with a hand pump. The stock master never bled a damn thing when I was starting completely dry. Maybe it's worth trying to bleed it the conventional way with the fancy master and a pretty hard pedal already achieved? Not sure. All I know is that there is a little bit of free play in the pedal before it gets hard. My vacuum pump method seems to be pulling a ton of air yet making no progress toward fixing the free play issue. If it weren't for that, the pedal height would probably feel fine.

I don't mean to sound like a Debby. I get frustrated when I'm having trouble figuring things out especially when I've been battling these issues for the entire ownership of the car. However, it is quite clear that my clutch WAS in fact slipping a lot before I got this Tick MC. It just wasn't the clutch's fault. I never even bothered with the drill mod on the stock MC, so dumping the clutch with lots of power ended up in big disappointment. I can feel the full 400ft/lbs now, and it is awesome! I've never been able to get pushed into the seat between shifts until now. Despite all the extra power to the wheels, learning to drive this thing should actually be easier now that I have mechanical consistency. I have a feeling that burnout videos will finally be coming as soon as I figure out the minor bugs.
,

 

[v6buicks]

I'm loving this though. I have yet to discover the bass, but the stock base Camaro stereo never really had any either. Regardless, this new stereo is very enjoyable to listen to! I liked the white display because I thought it helped blend in to the HVAC controls and IP better, but it was too bright in the dark even with the dimmer on. It's all red now.

As far as installation, I had to trim the little keyway for the stock stereo so that I could push this one all the way back. It actually makes for a nice place for the new head unit to ret if you trim it just enough. This particular install kit which I went out of my way to buy is understandably not the recommended one for amateur installers. The Pioneer frame needs to be pushed further into its slot than intended in order for the face to sit flush. This is not a huge deal, but you do need to source some small bolts and potentially get to drilling. In the end, this install is rock solid. Floppy radios are a big "no" for me as well as non-flush installations or useless cubby holes. I'm super happy with how this turned out. For those who are interested in spending a couple extra minutes of installation time for a much cleaner radio appearance, it's a Metra 99-3300.

 

[JFish75]

I think the other thing I need to realize is that this was made for the T56. The slave is the same part number if I recall correctly, but the pressure plate throw could be a lot shorter. I turned the turnbuckle out a little before I went to work. If feels a lot better having that extra half inch or so, but if feels more apparent that I have air in the system. Of course I didn't opt to get the speed bleeder when I bought this thing, so I'm stuck resorting to other methods.

In the past I have had the best luck with just sucking the air out of the top with a hand pump. The stock master never bled a damn thing when I was starting completely dry. Maybe it's worth trying to bleed it the conventional way with the fancy master and a pretty hard pedal already achieved? Not sure. All I know is that there is a little bit of free play in the pedal before it gets hard. My vacuum pump method seems to be pulling a ton of air yet making no progress toward fixing the free play issue. If it weren't for that, the pedal height would probably feel fine.

I don't mean to sound like a Debby. I get frustrated when I'm having trouble figuring things out especially when I've been battling these issues for the entire ownership of the car. However, it is quite clear that my clutch WAS in fact slipping a lot before I got this Tick MC. It just wasn't the clutch's fault. I never even bothered with the drill mod on the stock MC, so dumping the clutch with lots of power ended up in big disappointment. I can feel the full 400ft/lbs now, and it is awesome! I've never been able to get pushed into the seat between shifts until now. Despite all the extra power to the wheels, learning to drive this thing should actually be easier now that I have mechanical consistency. I have a feeling that burnout videos will finally be coming as soon as I figure out the minor bugs.
,View attachment 70851

It is a little goofy, I bled mine out of the car before putting it back in (the 2nd time) and then did a traditional bleed at the slave as well. The play you are referring too, is that with the engine off? Or vehicle running and driving? Because my pedal is hard as a rock with the engine off, but once it is on I have a little free play for the first inch or so also, it kind of drives me nuts thinking there is something wrong but I think it is just normal, it has been problem free the whole time and I have had it for the last 4 years. I assume you removed the return spring per the instructions? I have heard if you don't that will make things not seem right also. And not sure how much of a difference there is with yours being a T-5.

 

[v6buicks]

It is a little goofy, I bled mine out of the car before putting it back in (the 2nd time) and then did a traditional bleed at the slave as well. The play you are referring too, is that with the engine off? Or vehicle running and driving? Because my pedal is hard as a rock with the engine off, but once it is on I have a little free play for the first inch or so also, it kind of drives me nuts thinking there is something wrong but I think it is just normal, it has been problem free the whole time and I have had it for the last 4 years. I assume you removed the return spring per the instructions? I have heard if you don't that will make things not seem right also. And not sure how much of a difference there is with yours being a T-5.

Hmmm I will have to check with the engine off I only noticed this while driving. Why would it feel different though? That's kinda strange. I'm glad to hear your testimony though. I will probably try a traditional bleed later, but if it makes no difference I'll stop worrying about it. The return spring actually removed itself by breaking about a year ago. I never removed the remnants, but it's definitely not doing anything anymore.

 

[JFish75]

Hmmm I will have to check with the engine off I only noticed this while driving. Why would it feel different though? That's kinda strange. I'm glad to hear your testimony though. I will probably try a traditional bleed later, but if it makes no difference I'll stop worrying about it. The return spring actually removed itself by breaking about a year ago. I never removed the remnants, but it's definitely not doing anything anymore.

I agree I don't think it should make a difference but I have learned to mostly accept it. It is still always in the back of my mind though, but again it has been problem free for years so as long as it works then ?‍.

 

[v6buicks]

I admit that I've kinda been babying this thing which is a shame with the cool air and all. I just really want it to survive. ?

So naturally, it would bust something the first time I give it a good stab. I was slowing down to a red light when it turned green. I threw it in third and punched it up to valve float, and then heard a pop just before I shifted. It still seemed to run perfectly fine, but I could tell something was wrong at the next red light. Steam and that nasty hot coolant smell was rolling out from under the hood. Crap. I got to work, shined a light under the hood, and saw that something un-good happened to my custom heater hose set-up. It was wet and dripping from the heater core inlet onto the exhaust manifold. Not wanting to be late or get my hands dirty before I even clocked in, I shut the hood and walked away.

I guess I'd rather have that issue than a head gasket or something, but I'm not looking forward to re-engineering these heater hoses again. I specifically remember having a tough time tightening those hose clamps, but eventually pulling through. What I don't remember if they are all a worm gear style clamp or if I reused the spring clamps on the heater. I'll probably go out there during my lunch to investigate a little further. Either way. This is weird to me, because I still have pressure reducer. How weak of a connection would I need to create a leak? It certainly shouldn't have enough pressure to bust a year old hose either. ? Then again, this whole thing survived the short summer of beating and a dyno session. It's also wayyy colder outside today than it has been. Maybe things have contracted and I just need to resecure some of the newer connections. ?‍

I'm already thinking way too hard about this considering that the only thing I know is what I could see without touching anything. Stay tuned for my lunch break findings. Hopefully I'll be able to snap a couple pictures as well.

 

[v6buicks]

Hmmm well I didn't reuse the spring clamps like I thought. However, If I stick my Camera under the cowl it shows me that this hose is not exactly secure. I certainly can't pull it off by hand or wiggle the hose clamp, but it doesn't look tight either. If it was, this hose would be shoved all the way up to the stop.

This pic shows a little better how the hose clamp is not squishing the hose very tight. I'm sure its just barely stuck on the barb. Also notice how the other hose is pressed all the way up to the stopping point.

I'd consider this good news. The radiator is still full and I even have some coolant left in the reservoir. It's pretty wild how little water it takes to make a very concerning amount of steam! I'll try to snug this up a bit before I leave for the day, and send it. Hopefully I have enough tools here to do so.

Also, here's what you have to look forward to when you use the wrong kind of paint for your exhaust.

 

[v6buicks]

Yep, loose clamp was 100% it. ? That's embarrassing. I'll be sure not to tighten worm gears with flatheads anymore.

One thing I noticed but ignored because of the coolant issue was that when I stabbed the throttle it got to it's sweet spot in the power band, and fell on its face. I recreated that symptom again on the way home so I know it wasn't a freak thing.

Yeah, yeah, I know. I'm supposed to nice to this T5, but where's the fun in that? ? Anyway, I'm not sure if this is actually a new symptom or not. Of course Brian was giving this car the beans on the dyno, but that was with the weak master, back wards clutch disk, and leaky rear main. Who knows how bad it might have been slipping there? Since then I really haven't driven it super hard. Again, the master cylinder never really allowed good shifts, so it was one gear at a time and the sloppy clutch screaming for dear life made me scared to lay into too hard. I felt frisky today. Instead of rolling slowly into boost all shy like I normally do, I actually stabbed it. I wanted to know what I could really do with a good clutch. I saw AFR stay below 12.5:1 and then went down below 12 when it hit a figurative wall.

Question- Knowing that these valve springs are totally toast, is it possible that they're just getting worse? The boost seems to have crept up a lb or two so that could be it as well. I'm also getting more confident and comfortable behind the wheel of this thing and the engine is seeing boost a lot more often. Do you think it's worth just changing the valve springs? I wish I had a fuel pressure readout in the car, but the AFR seems to show it not being a fueling issue. It'll also cruise around with a few medioum throttle pulls all day long which makes me think that it's not an ignition thing.

I guess it's finally time to put HP on my new laptop and start scanning again. Fun

 

[v6buicks]

I was struggling a bit yesterday. In the mean time my friends were really making fun of me. If you can't tell yet, I have a serious problem with trivial crap not functioning properly. Problems like the lighting for the radio and HVAC controls, the tail gate lift support ball stud in the 240, lack of AC in the Buick, and many others drove me to the point of hatred towards the respective vehicle. Even if they all run and drive just fine, I will have a hard time not being bothered by the little crap instead of just enjoying the fun parts. It's a weakness, but the additional pride I have in a car when I fix that stuff just makes me fall that much further in love with it. You should see how protective I am of the power antenna in the GN.

Anyway, I went on another trivial pursuit. The speedometer has not been reading correctly since I decided to "disable" some of the dummy lights and polish the lens. It's exactly 5 mph fast at all times which led me to believe that the needle was just not clocked correctly. I was able to confirm this via Aeroforce which was displaying correctly against GPS. I definitely fixed this the hard way, but I was not able to find information on how to do this right. Maybe somebody in here knows!

Even if there was a specific spot everyone set the needle, it wouldn't be possible to get it right within 1 mph. See how the needle starts moving up when you lay the cluster face up? Even when you stand it back up again, it wouldn't necessarily go back to 0. From experience +/- 5 was the best I could do, and that's just not acceptable in my opinion.

Then I tried half-assed installing the cluster with the lens removed and the needle barely pressed on. This came close to working. I would get the needle to match the scan gauge, and press it on a bit more firm. By the way, pressing the needle on while keeping it exactly where you had it is not as easy as you would think. For some reason it wants to spin a little when you do that. It was quite dangerous sticking my hand back there to adjust it. Then I would press it firmly when I came down to a stop. However, the needle doesn't stay in place if its loose and goes down to 0 without a lens. ?‍

Then I found a minorly safer solution that worked much better. Push that sucker on while the wheels are still turning.

 

[TurboTPI]

Dude, I suffer from the same stupid thing. I hate little things not right. My heated seat didn’t work when I bought the car. I put a used seat cover on the seat and it worked again, my dad just happened to have one (the perks of having a dad that was a 35+ year Buick tech and kept a lot of good parts when he could) but now this year, the damn heated seat quit working again. It’s seriously pissing me off. Not because I don’t have a heated seat now, more because it should have one haha. My old 97 Ford F-250 would loose instrument cluster bulbs yearly. I would pull that thing apart every time to replace the bulbs because I can’t stand shit like that not working. Now my fog light switch in my Regal doesn’t light up when the fog lights are on and it just another thing that irritates me! Haha I feel your pain man! I like every thing working! Kinda hard to ask for that on a 20 year old daily driven vehicle haha.

 

[GTPpower]

Those speedo needles are a pita. I used to press them on while driving. It was the only way I could get them accurate.

 

[v6buicks]

Those speedo needles are a pita. I used to press them on while driving. It was the only way I could get them accurate.

Seriously! The only trouble was that I needed both hands to press mine on. One to press and the other to hold the needle steady. For some reason the needle would spin a few mph if I just poked it. The Camaro also never had cruise control, so maintaining speed was also thrown into the mix. It was too dangerous. Jack stands and just letting it idle in first was way easier.

 

[v6buicks]

So getting the Buick 350 sold and out of the garage is a pretty big deal for the Lame V6 project. Having an open engine stand means I can finally bring home my FREE L32. It's been sitting at my my buddies shop in Oswego for about two years waiting for space to free up. We removed the heads for an inspection when it first arrived, because it was looking pretty neglected from the outside. Inside wasn't looking much better. There's a considerable ridge and the crosshatching is about non-existent. ?

I've been down this road before. Gone seem to be the days of going to a junkyard and getting a thrash-ready lightly used 3800 short block. The last 3800 I bought was a super clean L36, but the rings sealed so poorly that there was a dead miss in one cylinder. She was completely worn out. Rebuilding an L36 even if it was just a hone job and re-ring seemed like a big waste of money. Please correct me if I'm wrong about anything I'm about to say because it could drastically change the way I go about this second engine. My understanding is that all the bolts in the bottom end are TTY. It is also my understanding that the rods (especially in an L26 or L32) are to be discarded after they're removed. Once you go down the rod replacement rabbit hole and have a flywheel that needed to be rebalanced anyway, a complete assembly rebalance is going to be necessary. $$$ That's just the beginning though. I could probably have all that done, but would I even be able to just throw it back together with the same bearings? Would I want to If I could? My guess is "no" to both. Line bore, over bore, new pistons, bearings... $$$$. If this was a super simple engine to rebuild like an SBC I'd be all over it, but 3800s seem to be one of those where the magic is released once you tear it apart.

What to you think? Keep the top swap stuff, scrap the short and find another? Throw heads and a starter on it to do a compression test? Cross fingers, and throw that bitch in the car? I'm thinking compression test. I'll be buying ARP studs for this car anyway. Since they're reusable, I shouldn't have anything to lose other than a couple head gaskets. Rebuilding just doesn't seem to make sense to me. The L32 in stock form should be wayyyy beefier than I need. Besides, I want to show all the Buick guys at the Nats what kind of cheap thrills they're missing out on. An expensive rebuild with fancy rods would throw the cheap thing out the window.

 

[TrboGT]

v6buicks Take all of this for what its worth as it is just my experience. But I also went down the junkyard motor path a few times and it didn't go well (one time was my fault). I don't entirely enjoy pulling the motor and trans in FWD vehicles, although I have gotten pretty good at it, lol. Finally got tired of it/always working on it and spent the money and had a spare L67 completely redone. Bored, crank polished, new everything. Yes the money was a decent amount but that car isn't leaving my possession. So i just wanted it done and done right for the amount of coin I have into it.

You are right though. Good motors are increasingly hard to find. I have been very happy with my build, though it was anything but cheap.

If you don't mind the work, gaskets are cheap enough. Throw it together and send it. Lol.

 

[v6buicks]

v6buicks Take all of this for what its worth as it is just my experience. But I also went down the junkyard motor path a few times and it didn't go well (one time was my fault). I don't entirely enjoy pulling the motor and trans in FWD vehicles, although I have gotten pretty good at it, lol. Finally got tired of it/always working on it and spent the money and had a spare L67 completely redone. Bored, crank polished, new everything. Yes the money was a decent amount but that car isn't leaving my possession. So i just wanted it done and done right for the amount of coin I have into it.

You are right though. Good motors are increasingly hard to find. I have been very happy with my build, though it was anything but cheap.

If you don't mind the work, gaskets are cheap enough. Throw it together and send it. Lol.

I don't plan on letting this car go anywhere either. I'm in too deep, and it holds a lot of sentimental value at this point. I would not be scared to do all that if the risk wasn't so high. It seems like most rebuilds end up in spun bearings and then you need to start all over. Who did your rebuild and how long has it been running?

 

[TrboGT]

Dave (Triple Edge) did it and it has been about 2 years now. A shop around here (Ft Wayne) did the actual machining work. I'm not sure how much of the assembly they did on the block itself. It is the same shop that did the engine build on his personal turbo car and that one has over 15,000 miles on that build. That was enough reassurance for me. I can try and get the name of that shop if you'd like.

I do remember back in the day everyone being afraid of built blocks in these cars and them being seemingly cursed. Lol. That thought did pop into my head.

 

[v6buicks]

Dave (Triple Edge) did it and it has been about 2 years now. A shop around here (Ft Wayne) did the actual machining work. I'm not sure how much of the assembly they did on the block itself. It is the same shop that did the engine build on his personal turbo car and that one has over 15,000 miles on that build. That was enough reassurance for me. I can try and get the name of that shop if you'd like.

I do remember back in the day everyone being afraid of built blocks in these cars and them being seemingly cursed. Lol. That thought did pop into my head.

Ahh you lucky dog. I'd certainly trust TEP. The blocks are most definitely not cursed, but they just require every clearance to be spot on. Nothing should be assumed once it's torn apart. I think the people knocking them are ones who don't know what they're doing or take them to builders who have never dealt with Buicks or 3800s before. Both are a death sentence. If TEP wasn't taking on any projects, I'd probably try to find out if any GN builders were interested in a 3800 build. I'm not sure if they would be up for it, but I can't imagine that the techniques and level of care are much different.

I'm just rambling here though. I'd probably have to install two garbage engines before I considered dropping the big bucks. I'm stubborn like that. lol Besides, I could put a TKO AND an upgraded rear end in this thing for the price of a solid rebuild.

 

[TrboGT]

Lol. Yeah Dave is awesome. He originally top swapped the car in like 2005, hes built the transmission, tuned it both on the supercharged builds and the turbo builds. I tend to agree with you saying not to assume anything is ok. Everything was replaced aside from the crank. And that just needed a polish i believe.

You certainly are dedicated to the v6. Lol. I'd have some variation of 4.8/5.3/6.0 in there and some forced induction by now.

Honestly though. I've been in all types of LS setups, N/A and turbo. Nothing compares to the sounds my car makes, to me. So i understand you keeping the turbo 3.8 alive! I'm doing the same. ?