🔧 BUILD LAME Turbo V6 Camaro

[v6buicks]

I think this car is going to be on the twin engine Olds completion schedule. I haven't fully committed to redoing everything on the Camaro right away, but I'm finding it hard to compromise. It all starts with how I insist on modifying the core support for a new radiator. That's happening no matter what...
but if I do that, I really shouldn't redesign the front end around a shitty intercooler. I would like to get a nice one that's ready to flow some air....
but if I do that, I'm going to resize it and move it so that it can actually sit upright. The tilted deal I have now is kinda goofy looking....
but if I do that, the charge pipes won't fit right anymore. I'll have to make new ones or modify the ones I have...
but if I do that, I better move the turbo into a more convenient spot, increase the throttle size, and fix the intake tract....
but if I do that, I will need to modify the exhaust (which is broken anyway). I might as well try to make or modify some headers.

This is getting out of hand. This round of repairs and updates was already pretty huge before all these new ideas. Frankly I don't really need any of them either except for maybe the intercooler. I don't think I'll see the benefits with my tiny fuel system which I ironically refuse to touch yet. It's kind of all or nothing though. If I start messing around with the plumbing, I want to get rid of all of it so that I can sell the old stuff as a kit.

I think my goal is buy an intercooler, mock it up, build brackets, and not install it until I'm ready to go hog wild. The way I have the new radiator planned shouldn't get in the way of the current intercooler or its mounts. I think that would be the ideal compromise.

However, I do stuff in order of convenience and opportunity. Having the GN stored here and the Camaro apart makes my garage completely unnavigable. Until spring, I'm kind of stuck doing side projects in the basement or farming stuff out, so finding another F-body UIM for $80 shipped was a pretty good score.

I'm trying to come up with the best way to chop this thing. The first thing I noticed was that the casting line is more of a perfect place to cut than expected. I following it all the way forward cuts off the unneeded EGR and evap ports without touching the coolant ports which have to stay. I'm not sure if I'll be able to chuck this thing into the horizontal band saw but it would be pretty awesome to just chop it in half once and clean it up the rest of the way with a dremel. I may just have to free hand the cut in a vertical band saw and ask my buddy to clean it up on the mill.

I'm not exactly sure how I'm going to go about rebuilding it either. Part of me just wanted to weld the thing back on with a 1-2" strip of aluminum to raise the roof up. It would be simple and retain the ribs and lettering. I scrapped that though because I don't think I'd be getting the best air distribution by having the air come in at the same spot. I think cutting a big piece of pipe and angling the throttle passage in the top like so would be a little more elegant.

I also considered getting one of these.

and one of these

Then just connecting the dots. However, that may be an even bigger pain in the ass if its too long and I have to chop it up too.

 

[sktchy]

Those are worth 80 bucks? Balls. I've got a good tac throttle body I'm never gonna use too that's probs worth even more

 

[bs009]

If you have somebody who can weld aluminum then I'd do the high ram top all day. That's what I'm hoping to be able to do with my Holden intake when it finally goes on a car someday. Seems like the simplest/easiest option to me aside from accounting for the PCV and the vacuum ports on it. The TB flange is already there and it's already an LS flange, the shape is somewhat right too but it might just need a little bit of height under it.

Even if it comes out a little sloppy looking it's not like you'd be able to see it under the cowl right? lol

 

[v6buicks]

If you have somebody who can weld aluminum then I'd do the high ram top all day. That's what I'm hoping to be able to do with my Holden intake when it finally goes on a car someday. Seems like the simplest/easiest option to me aside from accounting for the PCV and the vacuum ports on it. The TB flange is already there and it's already an LS flange, the shape is somewhat right too but it might just need a little bit of height under it.

Even if it comes out a little sloppy looking it's not like you'd be able to see it under the cowl right? lol

One downside to all this is that I think the cowl will need some trimming at the minimum. Hopefully I won't have to remove it entirely and lose my wipers. If the dimensions for the Holley piece are favorable for the car I'll be going that way for sure. I don't care about hood clearance, but I do want to clear the stock alternator and firewall.

Those are worth 80 bucks? Balls. I've got a good tac throttle body I'm never gonna use too that's probs worth even more

I still think that was expensive, but it's one of those parts that doesn't come around locally on marketplace very often. When they do, they're being sold with a complete engine that I don't want. eBay has a ton of these for over $150 plus shipping, and shipping is the killer.

I've seen our throttles listed for $250. Lol. I wouldn't pay anywhere near that.

 

[sktchy]

One downside to all this is that I think the cowl will need some trimming at the minimum. Hopefully I won't have to remove it entirely and lose my wipers. If the dimensions for the Holley piece are favorable for the car I'll be going that way for sure. I don't care about hood clearance, but I do want to clear the stock alternator and firewall.

I still think that was expensive, but it's one of those parts that doesn't come around on locally on marketplace very often. When they do, they're being sold with a complete engine that I don't want. eBay has a ton of these for over $150 plus shipping, and shipping is the killer.

I've seen our throttles listed for $250. Lol. I wouldn't pay anywhere near that.

I was gonna say I'd have sold you the one I have way cheaper but shipping on that seems like it'd suck. However depending on what you do here I might have to cut one up myself

 

[v6buicks]

I did some research and started measuring. Without hacking a big section out of the Holley piece, it's going to dwarf the length of the 3800 intake which is to be expected being short a cylinder.

DIY, but still expensive hi-mang is officially off the table. My game plan is weak though. I'm second guessing my choice to just saw this thing in half because I don't have a great plan for relocating the MAP sensor. I don't think I'm going to end up bugging my machinist until I have a little more information.

 

[sktchy]

For what it's worth you can stick a map sensor in a vacuum line and it'll function. It's obviously not ideal. But for no more than our cars use it anyway.

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

Fuck you if you do this before me
Want a 3800 f body lim top flange?

 

[Mr_Roboto]

Chop the whole front off and add a dual bladed TB?

 

[sktchy]

Fuck it itbs and 6 t25s.

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

I don't think anybody in here necessarily NEEDS this, but it sure looks pretty!

ONLY $2000 AUS! If you're going full aluminum headed racecar bananas, why not?

View attachment 102591

 

[v6buicks]

Fuck you if you do this before me
Want a 3800 f body lim top flange?

I may start first, but I still don't have a tig welder. It will be really tough to finish an aluminum part this complicated when I can't stick things together. Finding a way to get the right plenum size in an F-body without cutting the cowl may be tough too.

Lol top flange may be helpful.

 

[sktchy]

I just kinda feel like there's a reason people don't mess with em and some higher hp builds run the fbody intake. Haven't heard much from that dude that cobbled that inlet on to the side of one I wonder if that didn't work out so hot.

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

You should read my plugs.

Most definitely an airflow issue just like the turbo 3.8....only we just can't use a power plate to even out the air distribution like they can

 

[sktchy]

You should read my plugs.

Most definitely an airflow issue just like the turbo 3.8....only we just can't use a power plate to even out the air distribution like they can

Ok but when does one start to see a difference? Back two holes? Im sure there's improvements that can be made but why not just a flipped L26 mailbox it seems like the distribution would be a lot better and maybe just beat on the cowl some for clearance?

 

[v6buicks]

The way I see it, people don't modify intakes because it's a lot of work and requires welding aluminum. 95% of the 3800 owners are in the "more boost is all you need" crowd which is fun but only gets you so far. The other 5% don't care to put this much effort into a car let alone a $2000 20 year old FWD Pontiac. Otherwise, the gains are available. I'm just a glutton for punishment and 3800 is life.

FWD NA manifolds are a lot better, but they aren't ideal. I was willing to deal with the shortcomings in air flow which is why I have a couple that are already flipped. What I'm not willing to do is move my alternator to make one fit. The only people I've ever seen make the flipped FWD work used very custom balancers to run Grand National accessories. I have one of those balancers, but I don't see the point in running an ancient, problematic, and expensive accessory system when stock stuff is so much better, cheaper, and already there.

If anybody wants a flipped FWD L36 manifold to play with I'll sell it to them because I'll never use it let alone two of them. lol

 

[sktchy]

I'm pretty sure I have a couple plastic ones with lowers and another fbody upper and lower that will probably collect dust til they get hauled in for scrap lol. But as for going through all that trouble I'll just watch you guys do it until I get to a place where I can buy a nice aluminum Tig. Then yeah I'll probably be trying to stick all sorts of dumb shit together

 

[turtleman]

I'm pretty sure I have a couple plastic ones with lowers and another fbody upper and lower that will probably collect dust til they get hauled in for scrap lol. But as for going through all that trouble I'll just watch you guys do it until I get to a place where I can buy a nice aluminum Tig. Then yeah I'll probably be trying to stick all sorts of dumb shit together

wanna get rid of that extra fbody plenum?

 

[sktchy]

wanna get rid of that extra fbody plenum?

It's a dbw type idk if that makes any difference to you and shipping will probably suck but if your wanting one I think we can make it happen.

 

[v6buicks]

Welders are such a sore subject for me right now. The biggest tease is having a nice Miller TIG and a huge welding table at my disposal at work. However, I'm far from being educated on using it, so trying to learn on my own makes the dudes who work in there very nervous. They would rather just do whatever I want done for me which is fine.
I don't want to mess up the machine and create more work for them, but I hate asking for favors all the time. I'd rather keep those guys happy because I really appreciate their their free advice and labor! I've been tempted to use a 25% off anything HF coupon to get a Vulcan multi-process but it doesn't change the fact that I don't have space for a decent welding table or an oven to pre-heat cast parts. I guess I'll keep asking for favors.

"Hey can you make this go fast?"

Anyway... Machinist was off today, but he offered some good advice on how to get this thing cut before he left.

Here comes the choo choo!

This could be cool wall art.

This is interesting. I can finally get a glimpse of how the PCV actually works in the F-body intake. It's simpler than I always thought. There's a passage from the valley to the PCV to the front of the throttle body. There is no passage from valve to to plenum like I assumed. This proves that my PCV plug never sealed well since the throttle needed to be plugged. It's odd but it doesn't matter now. I'll probably have the walls inside the plenum milled out and then have the tunnel welded shut. Maybe I can revisit the tunnel if I ever add a vacuum pump.

Rejigged and cut the rest off.

Oh yes. I'm starting to picture how I want to do this now.

I may just keep the top because I like the ribs and raised lettering. Plus, I think it will be a lot easier to ask a welder to make this happen. As for the throttle, I have no idea ho I'm going to route it. For good distribution, I think I'd want something like the picture below. I just think it would add a lot of complexity to the fabrication. Regardless, I know there's still a lot of hacking to be done.

 

[sktchy]

Now that I see where your going with this I'm in. I suppose you've planned for fuel rails too?

 

[v6buicks]

Now that I see where your going with this I'm in. I suppose you've planned for fuel rails too?

I've been planning on doing something, but I've changed my mind a billion times for various reasons.

When I initially got the ported heads, I thought I would tap/plug the head holes and use L36 rails forever. I have a nice set of custom polished L36 rails with -6 connections that should flow all the fuel I ever need. However, L36 LIMs are like $0.50 and Intense heads are almost $2k. I'd rather plug the intake and not regret it down the road. Now that I have this intake project going on I think it would be wise to abandon L36 rails forever and get L67 rails which is a mofo by principle. I have a nice set of modified stock L32 rails for a full stack too. L67 is the only 3800 rail type I don't have and it's the only good long term idea. It might be better to have the custom L36 mounting tabs relocated than buying all new rails. I hate doing that to cool parts though.

 

[GTPpower]

Man, it would be nice to have access to machines like that!

 

[Mr_Roboto]

On the turbo forums under the advanced tech section is a good read about intake manifolds. Look for a guy named boost engineer.

What's the runner length and csa? From the valve. Arguably way more important than plenum area. What diameter are the holes and the rectangle, length is port entrance to the valve.

 

[bs009]

fwiw, I think at one point I mentioned to you that zzp's L67 fuel rails wouldn't fit the f-body intake but I found out recently that I was wrong about that and they should fit, ZZP just sent them to me with the fittings in the wrong spot apparently or the wrong fittings to make them fit. I can't remember but they should fit.

Seeing that intake cut up is insanely awesome!

looks like the PCV should work something like this in stock form: