🔧 BUILD LAME Turbo V6 Camaro

[sktchy]

The balance shaft makes a significant difference in vibration but it's not really noticeable above Idol in these cars with the factory engine mounts

With a lopey cam it'll make that car rock side to side though

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

Buddy you don't know vibration till you drive a tall deck 3800 with no balance shaft inna really lightweight beer can with solid engine mounts.

The resonance can be phenomenal

 

[sktchy]

I don't doubt that a bit. I always kinda strive to not have mine shaking apart but with a cam and the balance shaft deleted it rocks the whole car back and forth pretty impressively at idle, as soon as you get on the gas you'd never know the difference though

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

Zackly

 

[v6buicks]

Good to know! Noted. I don't regret my poly mounts now, but I'm sure they'll be lovely when the balance shaft is gone. Lol

 

[v6buicks]

All this old tech was pretty cool to see in use.

The S.S. Badger is so old and obsolete that its sister ship, the S.S. Spartan remains on hand as a parts ship. I imagine it's tough getting replacement steam ship engine parts without it.

The Badger used to ship rail road cars but was converted to automobiles only in '92. You can still see the old rails on the floor.

It's not the most luxurious liner. lol

I need this for a boost gauge.

Not everything made it onto the boat under its own power. lol I guess I wasn't the only guy Roadkilling.

Made it!

Packed like sardines

On the road again! WI was a lot hotter than MI was when I left.

Stopped at a brat festival in Sheboygan

ass saggin from all the cargo. lol Number two complaint from this trip is the blown out shocks and whatever TF was clunking over every bump. Coilovers and rear control arms are a must.

 

[v6buicks]

Someone popped the inflatable brat man He couldn't really walk anymore.

Visited a brewery in Sheboygan before making my way to Milwaukee.

If I wasn't strapped for time, I would have tried to take some glam shots of the car in front of this bar.

I found him

That's about it. The car ran great the whole week! While making my way home from Milwaukee on Sunday morning I started having some deep thoughts about my car situation. I realized that I'm not going to drive the car any more than I do now until I have AC and better suspension. I should really focus on those two things before doing anything more with the engine. What I haven't decided though is if I'm going to commit to having the car out of commission for about a year while I do everything or if I'm cool with pulling the drivetrain out to throw my big heads and clutch on without the cam. All this talk of balance shaft delete vibrations, the expense of tuning or Holley efi, and rough riding suspension is kinda making me nervous. My current complaints are pretty trivial considering that I just took this jalopy on a very long drive. I'd hate to make the car uncomfortable or unreliable in the name of speed.

I've had numerous people in the Buick community tell me that they had more fun in their cars when it was an 11-12 second car than they ever did when it ran 8-10s and that really stuck with me. I figure heads and studs are a solid upgrade no matter what. The stock cam and LS6 valve springs should allow me to keep a balance shaft, avoid the cost of retuning the car, and make a lot more power than my 10-bolt is willing to put up with. Not to mention that the stock cam will help me maintain the torque that I love so much. It's a lot of win, but also kind of a waste when I consider that I'll have everything for the cam swap and the engine out of the car. Tough call.

I'm going to have to suck it up in terms of suspension. The rear set-up in particular is very tired. The shitty shocks are done, the springs aren't stiff enough to keep me off my bump stops and exhaust, and the rear control arms are known weak points after the torque arm. As for the front, I'm going to install my Spohn k-member, and rebush the stock control arms. I don't have the coin to go with tubular arms.

I've also gotten a bit more serious about selling the GN. If I could sell that and buy a decent roller, I'll change directions entirely.

 

[Jimy Bilmo]

Someone popped the inflatable brat man He couldn't really walk anymore.
View attachment 128346
Visited a brewery in Sheboygan before making my way to Milwaukee.
View attachment 128347
If I wasn't strapped for time, I would have tried to take some glam shots of the car in front of this bar.
View attachment 128348
View attachment 128349

I found him
View attachment 128350

That's about it. The car ran great the whole week! While making my way home from Milwaukee on Sunday morning I started having some deep thoughts about my car situation. I realized that I'm not going to drive the car any more than I do now until I have AC and better suspension. I should really focus on those two things before doing anything more with the engine. What I haven't decided though is if I'm going to commit to having the car out of commission for about a year while I do everything or if I'm cool with pulling the drivetrain out to throw my big heads and clutch on without the cam. All this talk of balance shaft delete vibrations, the expense of tuning or Holley efi, and rough riding suspension is kinda making me nervous. My current complaints are pretty trivial considering that I just took this jalopy on a very long drive. I'd hate to make the car uncomfortable or unreliable in the name of speed.

I've had numerous people in the Buick community tell me that they had more fun in their cars when it was an 11-12 second car than they ever did when it ran 8-10s and that really stuck with me. I figure heads and studs are a solid upgrade no matter what. The stock cam and LS6 valve springs should allow me to keep a balance shaft, avoid the cost of retuning the car, and make a lot more power than my 10-bolt is willing to put up with. Not to mention that the stock cam will help me maintain the torque that I love so much. It's a lot of win, but also kind of a waste when I consider that I'll have everything for the cam swap and the engine out of the car. Tough call.

I'm going to have to suck it up in terms of suspension. The rear set-up in particular is very tired. The shitty shocks are done, the springs aren't stiff enough to keep me off my bump stops and exhaust, and the rear control arms are known weak points after the torque arm. As for the front, I'm going to install my Spohn k-member, and rebush the stock control arms. I don't have the coin to go with tubular arms.

I've also gotten a bit more serious about selling the GN. If I could sell that and buy a decent roller, I'll change directions entirely.

You definitely have some things to think about and decisions to make. I've always been a believer that a 500-650hp street car is RELIABLE and super fun, versus more power... and more problems.

If you've been following the GN market on BAT, you should be able to snatch some decent coin for it, and then roll that money into this, or something else.

 

[Mr_Roboto]

Gotta say for the build you've done it's got a ton of miles on it. You're doing awesome, I can appreciate the "street car" nature of what you're doing. I'd put my priority on the back suspension and when a/c comes it comes. It looks like you've got 3 dead bodies in the trunk and I know that trunk won't hold 3 dead bodies unless they're midgets. Maybe not even then. It seems like it makes good power now, I could see that taking priority.

If you do want to more power Comp offers 2 smaller cams and one moderate but not huge cam. This is probably my preferred of the lot. I would consider the LSA a bit wide for making optimal power but you'd probably gain some fuel economy compared to say a 110 LSA. This has under 40 degrees of overlap as well which means you should still have really good street manners. I think that STT5 will make very good power but that is likely the limits of its virtues. Even with the IS3 heads I would be shocked if you need to go much over [email protected] to really get the most of them.

https://www.compcams.com/xtreme-energy-201-205-hydraulic-roller-cam-for-gm-3800-3-8l-v6.html

Although not on pump gas, don't forget that the 204/214 and 206/206 cams have gone 10s in a full weight GN with ported iron heads that flow less than your ported 3800 heads.

I think "mid range" Comp would be a decent improvement over your stocker which is something like 181/[email protected] with a stock cam I certainly don't think you'd see full benefits from doing the heads but with that much more air flow you'd probably still see gains. Heads are foundational to making power and air flow is foundational to making a turbo work.

 

[GTPpower]

How much boost are you running? Not that much, right? Heads will make a pretty small difference in the scheme of things. The cam will help more, but of you're unsure, I would be turning up the boost controller until you're at least in the 20's before taking everything apart.

 

[v6buicks]

Thanks everyone!

Mr_Roboto I didn't even consider doing a smaller cam. That choppy sound I crave would be cool, but I don't know if it outweighs the negatives. I might have to save that for a different build or just sell it. I was going to go with the ST2 if I found one of those used first, but the ST5 I found was a great deal. What if I did a NIC cam or GT2? I honestly didn't know that Comp had 3800 cams off the shelf other than the ones sold by ZZP so the one you posted surprised me a bit.

GTPpower I'm only running 12psi or so. I know the heads aren't going to do much as is, but I know that turning up the boost is a gamble with my Fel-pro bolts and L36 gaskets. I figured I'd just do the IS3 heads with the studs and L67 gaskets so that I CAN turn the boost up. I have a replacement timing chain and tensioner I can throw on, but I wonder how LS6 springs will handle all that boost. If I have to delete the balance shaft for a double roller then I might as well put a cam in.

Oh yeah.... one other complaint. When I beat the shit out of my car, it burns oil for a little while out the tail pipe. I think my ebay turbo is unhappy. I don't know if it's my crazy oil pressure or just a shitty turbo that's had enough, but it only happens after a long WOT run. It smoked bad of Friday night after showing off to a couple family friends and on my way to the boat the next morning. It's been fine ever since.

 

[v6buicks]

You definitely have some things to think about and decisions to make. I've always been a believer that a 500-650hp street car is RELIABLE and super fun, versus more power... and more problems.

If you've been following the GN market on BAT, you should be able to snatch some decent coin for it, and then roll that money into this, or something else.

My biggest fear is selling it, not being able to find another one that's worth buying, and regretting the sale. All the $17k higher mile GNs that are not super nice but certainly enjoyable as-is are now $30k. Oddly I haven't seen any "project" GNs for sale in quite a while. That might be telling me something....

If I could somehow sell the car and score a good roller, I'd 3800/turbo/4l80e/Holley EFI swap it using the Dan Jost headers. Then I'd probably sell the turbo parts from the Camaro and do some sort of wacky swap in it while retaining the TKX. I'd definitely stick with something that has an available bellhousing though. Buick 455? Honda V6?

 

[Jimy Bilmo]

My biggest fear is selling it, not being able to find another one that's worth buying, and regretting the sale. All the $17k higher mile GNs that are not super nice but certainly enjoyable as-is are now $30k. Oddly I haven't seen any "project" GNs for sale in quite a while. That might be telling me something....

If I could somehow sell the car and score a good roller, I'd 3800/turbo/4l80e/Holley EFI swap it using the Dan Jost headers. Then I'd probably sell the turbo parts from the Camaro and do some sort of wacky swap in it while retaining the TKX. I'd definitely stick with something that has an available bellhousing though. Buick 455? Honda V6?

Soooo.... you should keep the GN. LOL

 

[v6buicks]

Soooo.... you should keep the GN. LOL

I refuse to modify it. I might as well flush 10k down the toilet. I also don't enjoy it enough as-is which makes me wonder if a GN is even the right car for me.

I could just be done with the GN, build a driver quality GS, and auto swap/full racecar the Camaro too. That would be acceptable.

 

[Jimy Bilmo]

I refuse to modify it. I might as well flush 10k down the toilet. I also don't enjoy it enough as-is which makes me wonder if a GN is even the right car for me.

I could just be done with the GN, build a driver quality GS, and auto swap/full racecar the Camaro too. That would be acceptable.

 

[v6buicks]

I'm probably listing the car very soon. It depends on how choked up I get while writing the ad. lol

 

[Jimy Bilmo]

I'm probably listing the car very soon. It depends on how choked up I get while writing the ad. lol

If BAT doesn't take it, try cars and bids.

 

[Yaj Yak]

If BAT doesn't take it, try cars and bids.

both of them have gotten so upppity they turned down my escalade and excursion.

 

[Jimy Bilmo]

both of them have gotten so upppity they turned down my escalade and excursion.

C&B listed my Ram, but didn't hit the reserve - the reserve that THEY set.

 

[Yaj Yak]

C&B listed my Ram, but didn't hit the reserve - the reserve that THEY set.

that was a newer nicer $50,000 truck.

not a sub 20k relic

 

[Jimy Bilmo]

that was a newer nicer $50,000 truck.

not a sub 20k relic

I guess. But some of the shit I see on BAT is like... oh, cool, a 2000 honda civic with 80,000 miles, but it was a cali car. Glad this turd gets listed while other cool shit gets rejected.

 

[v6buicks]

I almost completely forgot that I just spent $1600 on a clutch that's only good for the 3800/TKX combo. F all that. The 3800 needs to stay with the TKX and Camaro a while longer. The wife really loves the GN anyway, and if I ever get a bigger house (both the wife and I want that) the car will be a lot less "in the way".... I guess I'm back at square one. lol

I'm going to try focusing on cam and turbo selection. I really need to learn how to do that so I can make more educated decisions. I assume that they'll play into each other a bit as well. Now is the time! I'm still loving the idea of a T4 twin scroll on my current flange with a quick spool valve. However, I may be missing something that I don't understand.

 

[Mr_Roboto]

I almost completely forgot that I just spent $1600 on a clutch that's only good for the 3800/TKX combo. F all that. The 3800 needs to stay with the TKX and Camaro a while longer. The wife really loves the GN anyway, and if I ever get a bigger house (both the wife and I want that) the car will be a lot less "in the way".... I guess I'm back at square one. lol

I'm going to try focusing on cam and turbo selection. I really need to learn how to do that so I can make more educated decisions. I assume that they'll play into each other a bit as well. Now is the time! I'm still loving the idea of a T4 twin scroll on my current flange with a quick spool valve. However, I may be missing something that I don't understand.

Vizard's How to Build Horsepower for the cam. Dude's kind of a shameless self promoter in some ways but there's some cool shit in the cam section. The custom cam I've been thinking about doing in my build is largely a byproduct of the mentality he talks about which focuses on LSA first and duration second. A lot of people think a narrow LSA causes a choppy idle which isn't true. Lots of overlap causes a choppy idle. Vizard focuses on the idea that you set the LSA (he calls it the LCA, which is interchangeable) then you alter the duration to the qualities sought in the vehicle e.g. idle, street manners etc. I'll try to play with DD and see if I can scare an example or two up tonight.

 

[sktchy]

As far as a cam if I ever had to do it over again I'd go with something like the st2 that doesn't involve revving it it to 7k to hit peak power. Drivability is still pretty alright with the bigger cam I have if you spend the time to work the quirks out of it but it's a hell of alot bigger chore than what just dialing in a mild setup and sending it is. So it's possible you may end up spending a little bit more on time with your tuner than anything as far as that goes. Keep in mind when you start changing stuff like that it's gonna really twist the data your given so playing witch hunt for little issues becomes a much bigger task as well.

 

[v6buicks]

I think I finally learned a thing or two about turbo sizing thanks to Garrett's wisdom. I may have been taking their calculations a bit too literally, but it's a start, right? Is this really how people shop for turbos?

My understanding is that I need to be looking for a map where a 2.55 pressure ratio meets ~54-56 lbs/min in the optimum efficiency window if I want 650 crank horsepower. I'm assuming that's enough for 600whp, but perhaps I should calculate 700 for comparison. Checking how much room I have to grow is good anyway.

Translating all that to a specific turbo yielded this result which appears right on the flippin money. What are your thoughts?

G-Series G35-900 62mm – Garrett Motion

www.garrettmotion.com

I am still going completely blind on the turbine side, but my understanding is that it's not quite as critical. What the hell is A/R? Seeing that there's a divided T4 housing available that I can put a quick spool under has me breathing heavily, but I don't wanna screw this up. I also don't know what size the turbine or compressor outlets are. Although I'm very much not excited about redoing the plumbing again, I'd be more than happy to do it if I have confidence in the turbo being a solid upgrade.

I also don't really want to spend Garrett prices, so I guess I'll have to shop for knock offs with similar specs?