🔧 BUILD LAME Turbo V6 Camaro

[v6buicks]

I found this diamond in the rough a few weeks ago and made it mine. I'm probably going to make the hideous paint job a powder coaters problem.

It's an SN95 Mustang 8.8 housing with all the F-body brackets welded on. It's not widened or converted to F-body brakes, and I like it this way. The Mustang is about 2" narrower than the F-body which is perfect. I can run a wheel with a more favorable offset, and the wheels I currently have should work with an off-the-shelf adapter spacer. I can also use off the shelf Mustang axles and brakes which makes the whole operation pretty cheap and easy. I may have to get crafty with the e-brake cables, but I don't necessarily need that either.

That's a very low priority project though, so forget about it for now.

ZZP modified lifters.

Luckily they were cool enough to take theses back and and overnight a new set on their dime with an envelope full of stickers and badges. They obviously felt bad about the situation, so I won't knock them for this one. The new set looks a lot better, but the rollers on both sets are a little catchy. I don't know if this is bad or if it will go away with oil pressure. I just know the original lifters I pulled out feel silky smooth.

Mopar 440 cam bearing slammed in.

Test fitting the Rollmaster. Chain is nice and tight.

It fits close to the block too! Jason Farnsworth is the man if you want your crank gear chamfered.

He did spray everything with cosmoline before shipping it back, but the rubber band stuck to it and kinda melted itself to the chain. I was able to pick most of the fragments out, but I'm hoping the rest will dissolve in the solvent tank.

 

[SpeedSpeak2me]

I'm probably going to make the hideous paint job a powder coaters problem.

 

[Mr_Roboto]

I didn't know people did 8.8 conversions for F-bodies. Guess they do em for everything else. The welding on the housing is kind of surprising, I'd have thought that they'd do a bolt on with the cover bolts.

I'm guessing that's a balance shaft delete? Looks easy enough to do.

 

[v6buicks]

I didn't know people did 8.8 conversions for F-bodies. Guess they do em for everything else. The welding on the housing is kind of surprising, I'd have thought that they'd do a bolt on with the cover bolts.

I'm guessing that's a balance shaft delete? Looks easy enough to do.

Yep. There's a guy on Facebook who sells the fab kit for $100. It's slick, but not something I'm interested in tackling myself or even finding somebody to do it for me. It would realistically cost me another $100 to farm out and $100 for the Mustang rear. At $300, I'd say this housing was a decent deal. Hawks sells bolt-in 8.8s for 3rd and 4th gen F-bodies with all sorts of different options available, so I went to price one out. Holllllllyy smokes have the prices gone up! Housings alone are over $1000. A turnkey unit was well over $3000, so I snagged this thing instead. I still likely won't build it myself, but I can at least nickel and dime it as I go.

I know a lot of newbs think I'm wasting time and effort by not going straight to a 9". Those MFers are HEAVY and put some decent drag on the driveline. For what? The 8.8 will not add much drag or weight over the 10-bolt and can be built to withstand more than I can throw at it.


Yep. Remove gears, mangle/remove the super tight c-clip from the roller bearing side, and pull the assembly out. The original rear bearing has a groove on the block side so that it can be rotated in any orientation. This is why you need a 440 Mopar cam bearing. It has the same OD but without the groove. Now the top end can get some more oil pressure. The front roller bearing is just splash oiled by the gears and timing chain, so that hole is left alone.

 

[Mr_Roboto]

I'll say this, IMO the huge advantage of a 9" is the setup. Dealing with this 8.25 ChryCo is a pain in the balls. You just pop the pinion out on a 9, throw some different shims in and you're done. Easy. The OEM configurations are pretty nice too overall, but I think that if your'e changing much of anything that goes out the window at some level.

I did a 9" in the Astro, would probably have done an 8.8 but they weren't the thing back when I did mine up.

 

[v6buicks]

I'll say this, IMO the huge advantage of a 9" is the setup. Dealing with this 8.25 ChryCo is a pain in the balls. You just pop the pinion out on a 9, throw some different shims in and you're done. Easy. The OEM configurations are pretty nice too overall, but I think that if your'e changing much of anything that goes out the window at some level.

I did a 9" in the Astro, would probably have done an 8.8 but they weren't the thing back when I did mine up.

I considered this at first, but I've long since realized that I will not be changing gears out regularly if ever. It will be set once by somebody else and forgotten.

 

[Mr_Roboto]

Yeah, absolutely not worth it to do a 9 in your case. There's a lot of disadvantages for the advantages they do provide.

 

[v6buicks]

Working in the garage was getting pretty miserable, and I still had a goal of bringing the GN back to the garage once the GTP shit was out of the way. I cut up the original K-member and loaded up the Volvo with several hundred pounds of scrap. Maybe I'll get a nice $10 bill.

Now I can continue working.

I love me a good rebuild. I degreased and wire wheeled as much of the block as I could. The knock sensors were pulled out. I don't think new ones are necessary, but knock sensors were one of the only things that Dyno Brian suggested me to change before coming back. I might as well humor him while I have the engine out.

 

[sktchy]

I think knock sensors are a stellar idea as long as you can find something oe quality or better. I wouldn't trust anything off eBay or parts store repops that could bring chippy the piston out to ruin your day.

 

[v6buicks]

You've all seen first-hand how I will grab an idea totally unprompted until I realize it's way too much work/money. Today I'm revisiting one from about page 89 of this thread because those old problems remain while the opportunity to fix them has changed dramatically.

Ignition! The engine is out and the harness is going to get pulled apart for modifications, so it seems like a great time to pick at this now much lower hanging fruit. I do want to keep it relatively cheap and simple though. MSD is too pricey and the dual ICM mod seems like a big pain in the ass to do nicely for pretty few benefits, so I looked again at the CNP conversion.

Coil Per Plug Conversion for 3800s

I've purchased everything I need and am working on setting up Queen (the 4T80e Turbo Park Avenue) with LS "truck" coils. The conversion is pretty straightforward after finding the key component to drive the coils. Here's a list of everything I bought for the conversion: Buick Ignition...

www.thechicagogarage.com

I'm slightly daunted by the lack of pictures and directions, but I think this will be a nice bridge before swapping the ECM out for a Holley (if I ever get around to that). turtleman Turbocharged400sbc is the CNP working on the PA just fine? It seems like a pretty slick set-up. I like that the N2MB would only need to interrupt the trigger as opposed to actual coil ground. ICM seems to be undisturbed.

I think it would be a real shame to finally get this thing ready for the dyno and it either doesn't run because I botch the CNP wiring or had to run a .020" plug gap with terrible idle quality because I didn't do anything.

 

[turtleman]

The wiring is pretty easy. It's mostly a matter of how nice you want to spend time making it.
I pretty much got the plugs and did all fresh wiring but you could mod a stock harness to get it done faster.
You'll want to have a good dedicated fused voltage feed and ground for the coils of course.
The queen and el tortuga have been using D581 coils and they're great.

 

[v6buicks]

The wiring is pretty easy. It's mostly a matter of how nice you want to spend time making it.
I pretty much got the plugs and did all fresh wiring but you could mod a stock harness to get it done faster.
You'll want to have a good dedicated fused voltage feed and ground for the coils of course.
The queen and el tortuga have been using D581 coils and they're great.

Oh man, I really like this....

I suppose I could keep my ICM in the stock Camaro location, but it also seems like a waste of good space. The same could be said about my strut tower bar, but if I weld coil brackets and wire them up with a single connector I think I'd have a pretty slick piece. ICT billet makes LS coil brackets that can easily be shortened down to hold only three coils. Me likey.

It's way out of order but I emailed Dynamic EFI about getting a type 2 interface kit. I really need to get rid of the Comp G and turn my Camaro into a roller again, but this is too cool.

 

[sktchy]

 

[v6buicks]

I talked to Bob at Dynamic EFI and bought his last interface for type 2 ICMs. I have no idea if he's making more, but I'm guessing the only real difference is wire colors and the terminals used to connect. Everything else should be the same.

Since you can't get a nice box for these like the type 1s, I'm considering moving the ICM to somewhere behind the dash. I don't think there's any reason to have it under the hood or in a cool place since it shouldn't really be under a load anymore or have coils bolted directly on top of it. The CNPs have power coming from their own source so the ICM and interface would be only a brain. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

 

[turtleman]

I talked to Bob at Dynamic EFI and bought his last interface for type 2 ICMs. I have no idea if he's making more, but I'm guessing the only real difference is wire colors and the terminals used to connect. Everything else should be the same.

Since you can't get a nice box for these like the type 1s, I'm considering moving the ICM to somewhere behind the dash. I don't think there's any reason to have it under the hood or in a cool place since it shouldn't really be under a load anymore or have coils bolted directly on top of it. The CNPs have power coming from their own source so the ICM and interface would be only a brain. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

That's true but it'd add lot of wiring labor, moving the ICM inside the car. It might be fine but extending the raw crank/cam signal wires wouldn't be something i'd choose to do. After spending a good amount of time trying to tap in for rpm signals and whatnot, I experienced the trouble with delicate signal circuits. I'd probably use shielded wiring and stuff for extending that at least.

 

[sktchy]

My thing is coil on plug seems great in theory, and I can see it being practical at higher boost levels, but does it actually makes these ignition systems less problematic? Because if it does I may just bite the bullet at some point. But if it doesn't I dont really wanna add to the bs and I think in my case I'd have a hell of a time finding wires and/or figuring out coil placement without cooking the hell out of them like everything else.

 

[v6buicks]

My thing is coil on plug seems great in theory, and I can see it being practical at higher boost levels, but does it actually makes these ignition systems less problematic? Because if it does I may just bite the bullet at some point. But if it doesn't I dont really wanna add to the bs and I think in my case I'd have a hell of a time finding wires and/or figuring out coil placement without cooking the hell out of them like everything else.

I'd say pick your poison. In my case, I want to run 10s and continue running this thing on the street, so my ignition will probably need some help. If staying at 10-15 psi with stock heads and just cruising around is your goal then stock is better. I'm not exactly excited to diagnose any issues I may introduce, but I'm excited to not worry about my limits once it's working.

 

[sktchy]

See that's where I'd probably lean towards just doing a Holley or just stacking the Icms for the fire you want at the plugs. But when every time I turn around I cook somethin else I definitely have a bias on the subject.

You have better luck than I do though so it'll probably work fine for you lol

 

[v6buicks]

See that's where I'd probably lean towards just doing a Holley or just stacking the Icms for the fire you want at the plugs. But when every time I turn around I cook somethin else I definitely have a bias on the subject.

You have better luck than I do though so it'll probably work fine for you lol

Holley is the big bucks and a lot of variables. ICM stacking looks like a PITA with seemingly little value. I'm going to end up doing harness mods to strip anything I don't need and add the WOT box so I figured this wasn't going to be too big of a step up.

As far as the ICM stacking, it's the additional heat in the assembly and packaging it to make it look nice that turned me off. Idk if I can make it look good or keep it reliable.

 

[sktchy]

If anybody can you can. I just don't understand how you get away with what yours does without having the heat issues I do. I can't imagine my pipes put out that much more heat than yours in that sense and I don't think there's anything I haven't cooked and had to replace at this point.

 

[v6buicks]

If anybody can you can. I just don't understand how you get away with what yours does without having the heat issues I do. I can't imagine my pipes put out that much more heat than yours in that sense and I don't think there's anything I haven't cooked and had to replace at this point.

I'd have to look at yours a little closer. E85 helps. I have none of the factory cooling ducts to the radiator since I tilted it upright and they no longer fit. I cut the mouth out of the bumper for more air flow to my intercooler though so there's that. My hot side is built using factory manifolds which are ceramic painted and wrapped. It really doesn't get insanely hot under the hood no matter how hard I'm beating on it.

 

[sktchy]

That may be all of what I'm missing. Think I'm gonna have to at minimum open some things up. At this point it's ridiculous.

 

[v6buicks]

I was busy working on stuff yesterday, but only made miniscule proxy progress on the Camaro. I need a crank holding tool because I don't know of a sloid way to torque the cam bolt without possibly breaking a flywheel tooth.

I had a stock L67 flex plate in the basement that I knew I'd never use for anything, so it got chopped up. My initial plan was to have it bolt in place of the starter, but I'm going to mount it in place of the bellhousing instead. I think it will be a lot stronger that way, and it won't fit with the transmission attached anyway.

 

[Mr_Roboto]

That'll probably work. I typically get a pipe vise grip and use the accessory pulley if the balancer is on. Then again it's probably not in your case. Heck, I don't even know if these are press fit or not.

 

[v6buicks]

As long as it's built super rigid I think it'll be fine. Ring gear to ring gear meshes about five teeth. Ten flywheel teeth vs 74ft/lbs +90 degrees should still be testing my welds... I think. lol

74 + 90 sounds pretty insane to me. I hope my pencil arms and tools can do it.