🔧 BUILD LAME Turbo V6 Camaro

[v6buicks]

I think "cheap skate GN" kind of summarizes it well. I'm not pushing towards being conventional but man it sure isn't a bad deal to stand on the shoulders of giants. I also think make power where you're going to enjoy it as well.

I will also say that you're going to probably enjoy tuning something like that 201/205 a heck of a lot more too honestly. Getting the idle/cruise right on that ST5 is not gonna be where you want to go.

I would be torn between keeping a 66 and stepping up to a 70 in your shoes. I said use the 66 because you've got it but if it's gotta be rebuilt or replaced that changes the game some. A bit more compressor probably wouldn't hurt things.

Now that I have working cruise control I love taking this thing on longer drives.

Interesting. Well I'll look and see what I find on ebay and report back. Part of me still really wants something with ball bearings, but that part of me is not looking at the price. lol

 

[v6buicks]

OOO!! Mr_Roboto is this about what you're thinking because I love what I'm seeing! I think I could bolt this turbo right in place of my old one once I swap out the coupler. The ball bearings, similar specs, and relatively low cost are making me moist.

T72 Ball Bearing Turbo Charger T4 .68 AR P Trim For Supra Mustang S13 S14

www.cxracing.com

 

[Mr_Roboto]

Looks good to me. Same deal as last time really 230, 270 and 300hp NA. You have a bit of head room if you make more power NA than you think you will too. From what I remember of a T70 map a T72 is definitely a better choice in that the map between a T66 and a T70 didn't seem different enough to really care about honestly.

 

[v6buicks]

I finally had a nice full day on a weekend to work on anything I want, so I chose to do something that will be a lot more difficult to do in the winter. I'm sure as hell not installing blue cylinder heads on my car.

That was way too easy. It's nice working with parts that weren't installed long enough to be covered in rust, carbon, and oil cake! These things cleaned up pretty nicely with just brake cleaner and wire brush. The paint stuck nicely and appears blacker than stock.

I did notice one little funny thing about these heads though. Remember how pissed people were about the injector bungs on ZZP aluminum heads having holes in them?

Looks like ported irons are the same way when they're hogged out enough. I'm not really worried about it, but I might consider plugging these holes instead of the holes in the intake.

Anyway, I'm glad that's done! Every step closer to installing all this stuff makes me super happy. Speaking of which, another crucial part showed up.

I finally bought a new Dremel so that I can get back to work on the HVAC box too.

 

[Mr_Roboto]

Oh that clutch is shiny AF.

Black is totally wrong, you need orange to make real power.

 

[v6buicks]

I started writing this, then deleted it, then rewrote with new thoughts, then deleted it again.

So here are my thoughts after being a bit more realistic.

I think the car is going to take an extended break again. I hate that I have to do it, but I'm at a point where too many things need to change if I don't want to half-ass it or spend more money in the long term. You see, I was having one of those moments where the lights were out but I couldn't fall asleep. I had realized that the coilovers I want were almost as expensive as the rear end I need. I need the rear end if I want to double my horsepower. There's no way around that and I don't see it being worth band aiding the the 10-bolt with a girdle just to make it through the dyno runs. However, my suspension is also a mess, and I don't want to be hooning much until that's sorted. Besides coilovers, that's also going to include rear control arms, sway bars, brackets, and front bushings at the minimum. Chuh ching.

It's going to take me a while to be able to afford all that, let alone install it. I'll need the driveshaft to get a new u-joint and possibly shortened when I get to the rear end which isn't a huge deal, but still a special trip I'll have to plan. I really shouldn't be making that much power without a loop either. That's going to be a big time suck which is why I don't have one installed already.

Then... I also forget that my 80s and AEM pump are going to be tapped If I even make it to my HP goal on the dyno. More money. I don't feel as bad about it because I'll just hand the perfectly good parts down to the GN and start running that one on E like I've always wanted. It's still more money that I'm not prepared to spend. The GN will need a chip then too!

This is just the stuff that handles or makes more power. I still have to cut up my rad support and install a new radiator. That's big time and big money the way I want to do it. After some of the videos I've been seeing, I'll probably upgrade the intercooler to something a little less Chinese too. While the engine is out I'll go through the harness and add the WOT box.

The only expense I'll likely spare is the EMS. Everything I'm doing is going to be an insane amount of time and money. Holley just won't be in the cards as I won't allow myself to do it cheap or quickly. Dyno Brian did a great job before, I'm sure he can handle taking this thing in again.

...I totally forgot to include that the dash will have to come out for the new HVAC box installation and the engine bay needs rust remediation. FUCK. This is a lot to swallow. Two year break? ? I hope I have the patience to get through a project that long.

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

Breaking into the injector bung hole does not affect anything since the injector o-ring sits farther above that area

 

[sktchy]

This is starting to sound exactly why I've let mine sit in the garage. Time being more of a factor for me considering I have everything sitting here to try and meet my lower expectations and have other spending priorities currently but generally the same feeling. Goals aside it was alot more fun to be able to just enjoy it for what it is without worry of breaking something every time you wanna take it for a drive and I'm not entirely sure what mine put down the last time, but I know how much fuel it threw at it and the way it acted and it was almost too much to be fun anymore.

All that power sounds great until you realize what you can actually stick to the road and credit is due to those that have it and abstain from using it, but unless you plan on making it a track car I feel like there's a certain point where you just keep throwing more at it to give yourself more problems.

Have you thought about just upgrading the turbo, sorting your clutch out and maybe giving it a few more lbs and having it retuned for that before you decide to crack into it and keep pushing?

Only reason I'm asking is because I got hellbent on trying to prove to myself I could make a number on a pile of spare parts and once it decided it wanted to do it i think my current plans are to go back to a more reliable, less try and end up in a balls of flames-ish kinda of build.

 

[v6buicks]

This is starting to sound exactly why I've let mine sit in the garage. Time being more of a factor for me considering I have everything sitting here to try and meet my lower expectations and have other spending priorities currently but generally the same feeling. Goals aside it was alot more fun to be able to just enjoy it for what it is without worry of breaking something every time you wanna take it for a drive and I'm not entirely sure what mine put down the last time, but I know how much fuel it threw at it and the way it acted and it was almost too much to be fun anymore.

All that power sounds great until you realize what you can actually stick to the road and credit is due to those that have it and abstain from using it, but unless you plan on making it a track car I feel like there's a certain point where you just keep throwing more at it to give yourself more problems.

Have you thought about just upgrading the turbo, sorting your clutch out and maybe giving it a few more lbs and having it retuned for that before you decide to crack into it and keep pushing?

Only reason I'm asking is because I got hellbent on trying to prove to myself I could make a number on a pile of spare parts and once it decided it wanted to do it i think my current plans are to go back to a more reliable, less try and end up in a balls of flames-ish kinda of build.

I am absolutely considering ways to break this down into fun stages. I just haven't found an idea I like yet.

I did take the turbo off tonight, and once again found nothing super out of the ordinary. The compressor side had some oil, but I that's relatively common, right? The exhaust side was totally clean. I'm not sure if that's another E85 thing or what, but I really want to find something concrete. Maybe I need to pull plugs next. ? I'm still really hoping I can blame the turbo, but there really isn't a smoking gun... Except the tail pipe. Lol. I'm guessing the E washes it out pretty good.

I'm considering an option where I keep my current fuel system, swap heads with studs and L67 gaskets, and leaving the rest alone. Even if I found another deal on 1.9s to throw on, I shouldn't have to retune, right? I think a turbo change would require a retune though, yeah? That's the shitty part. I would only want to do as much as I can get away with without retuning if I'm going to do it part way. I figure I can go back and do the cam/lifters/timing set without pulling the engine or heads again, so no big loss. Without those parts, my 10-bolt should stay in okay shape too. Lol

Another idea was to just do the chassis and suspension work this winter and mostly ignore the engine. Getting all that squared away along with a new turbo would be pretty exciting all on their own. Not getting the clutch in would be regretful though.

I really need to know what's causing the smoke though. It's a pretty big determining factor that might keep me awake tonight. ?

 

[Mr_Roboto]

Is there a PCV at the turbo inlet?

 

[v6buicks]

Is there a PCV at the turbo inlet?

nope. Just the filter. That's why I thought it was suspect. My GN's compressor and intercooler were bone dry before I hooked the factory breather back up.

 

[sktchy]

I don't think I've ever had oil in the compressor housing and had it be good. As far as the turbine it's probably hot enough to burn it up if it's smokin but I'd think it's be pretty sooty. I think doing the suspension and clutch work would be a better way to go at it than tearing into the engine just yet and I still have a set of stock modded 1.9s if you decide that's what you wanna do. At that rate i dont see it being necessary except maybe to optimize it a little but I wouldn't be so scared of a retune, as long as you've got everything right a couple of flashes and it should be an easy thing and maybe just add or subtract a little timing according to what you wanna do on the boost end and clean the fuel up just a touch. I guess that's the one thing ive got when it comes to mine is being able to screw with it at free will

 

[Mr_Roboto]

Inclined to deal with the turbo first. oil going into an engine isn't a good idea when you're trying to tune it more towards the ragged edge.

 

[v6buicks]

It sounds like I listened too much to the wrong guy. Lol. I'm condemning the turbo. Oil in the intercooler doesn't make sense to me in my case.

sktchy3.8 I'll let you know about that. How much you thinking? As Mr_Roboto mentioned a while back, the heads are going to be a lot less effective with a stock cam. I figure 1.9s will at least fake it.

 

[sktchy]

Idk 200? Another 200 and I'll throw in the maxspeedingrods 6765 .96 ar I've got new in the box? And yeah oil vapor in the intake side will make your car knock real quick. Remember that time I tried to route my catch can into the intake side of my white car and kr shot to the moon and the next time I went to make a pull on it it spun a bearing

 

[v6buicks]

Idk 200? Another 200 and I'll throw in the maxspeedingrods 6765 .96 ar I've got new in the box? And yeah oil vapor in the intake side will make your car knock real quick. Remember that time I tried to route my catch can into the intake side of my white car and kr shot to the moon and the next time I went to make a pull on it it spun a bearing

I'll let you know on those rockers. I'll probably pass on the turbo though. I really like the CXracing one that Mr_Roboto is suggesting.

Yeah, I remember. I should pull my charge pipe off the throttle and see what it looks like in there too. That would be a smoking gun imo. I can remove/clean the MAF too while I'm at it.

 

[sktchy]

I would definitely clean the maf, the last turbo I had go bad on mine pushed oil clear up there and when I swapped mine out for a junkyard one I've had sittin here it did make it a little easier to get fuel straight for sure but didn't seem to have a huge impact. I've got a feeling your high oil pressure and running a cheap turbo is probably alot of your oil issue otherwise I would think you'd have some shaft play in it. How's your return line setup? Is there plenty of drop in it so it isn't backing up?

 

[v6buicks]

I would definitely clean the maf, the last turbo I had go bad on mine pushed oil clear up there and when I swapped mine out for a junkyard one I've had sittin here it did make it a little easier to get fuel straight for sure but didn't seem to have a huge impact. I've got a feeling your high oil pressure and running a cheap turbo is probably alot of your oil issue otherwise I would think you'd have some shaft play in it. How's your return line setup? Is there plenty of drop in it so it isn't backing up?

My thoughts as well. I just find it nuts that oil can make it's way suspended through an intercooler and about 5 feet of bent pipe before puffing it all out the exhaust. The turbo certainly chops the air/oil mixture pretty good though and cars are wild anyway.

I did finally make a nice -10 drain. I also hotrodded the drain fitting in order to promote smoother flow. I don't THINK the drain is a problem, but it's hard to say without seeing. I have a restrictor, so I'm not too worried. I think the bigger issue is just the insane pressure. The restrictor is probably too big.

 

[sktchy]

If it's a journal bearing turbo i wouldn't be running a restrictor to begin with. I'm about positive that's what did my last one in. Never had an issue runnin tractor supply hydraulic line wide open into one and it holds up alot better than the cheap -4 stuff. That being said going to a more expensive 12" long braided line with the restrictor fitting drilled out has been working well too

 

[v6buicks]

If it's a journal bearing turbo i wouldn't be running a restrictor to begin with. I'm about positive that's what did my last one in. Never had an issue runnin tractor supply hydraulic line wide open into one and it holds up alot better than the cheap -4 stuff. That being said going to a more expensive 12" long braided line with the restrictor fitting drilled out has been working well too

Technically, you're right. However, I was flooding the MFer out before the restrictor. It was so bad that when I popped a charge pipe off (loose clamp) I left a huge oil slick behind me.

That was also before I got the much superior drain fitting and solved a huge list of other problems though. Who knows. Maybe I can remove the restrictor, or maybe it will just blow oil right by the seal again. Either way, I don't see feeding the turbo more oil as a solution to my leak. I actually got the restrictor idea from an engineering friend of mine. He mentioned it as a way to improve spool time because my insane oil pressure in the bearing would actually be frictional at that point. It seemed to help, and I haven't seen as much oil in the charge pipe since.

 

[sktchy]

You are correct on all counts there and id be the last one to complain about having too much oil pressure lol. It's really more of a thrust bearing kinda thing than an actual seal as far as that part goes though so I guess my thoughts are break down and get a good turbo or maybe pull a washer out of the bypass plunger. The money spent on a good one will absolutely be given back in smiles per hour.

 

[Mr_Roboto]

any air filter or is this bare backing? have you measured inlet vac if going through piping? I don't think it would be an issue but it may be if its excessively restrictive on the air inlet side.

 

[v6buicks]

I have just a Green 3" air filter on it now. No more pipe because it was a VERY noticeable choke point on the butt dyno. Spool time went way down, and the car pulled so much harder. Here's the HAI I have now.

 

[v6buicks]

Hmm...

Nothing feels oily inside the tube nor inside the throttle body once I pull the MAF off. I certainly don't remember that dark spot though. Whatup wit dat? It seems I picked up a lot of decent sized debris too. Not sure how that got there.

While the black spot is kinda odd, I don't think I learned anything more about my smoke problem. I'm pretty sure I've seen sludged open PCV cars smoke less. Then again, those guys probably have functioning catalytic converters.

 

[sktchy]

If I remember right I had just a little discoloration on the screen in that exact same pattern before I took it out, but it wasn't anything near that dark. I guess I never thought much of it but seeing how we both kind of bring our charge pipes up similarly I wonder if that's just where any oily residue would land as its pushed up the pipe and the air just flows up and over it as gravity holds it down?

The air filter thing also seems a key point to me as we really don't have any room to go much bigger and I've been told time and time again about the little ones collapsing on a dyno and them being a restriction. I don't really know that it'd cause it to suck oil out of the compressor as much as I'd think you'd see it go rich and fall on its face though. And even if it was tuned in in such a way I'd sure think you'd see the maf curve flatten out to pull fuel back to compensate and attempt to keep the afr the same.