🔧 BUILD LAME Turbo V6 Camaro

[v6buicks]

Holy Jack stands that had to take some pumpin to get that up there, that looks like the kinda neighborhood I'd get kicked of for doin a case relearn at 4 am tho

Yep. The car is supposed to be at ride height when you weld in subframe connectors, so the front is actually on ramps with 2x10s on top. I just decided to leave it there while I did the transmission to make things easier. The jack needed the help of a scrap 2x4.

 

[Rdrnnr]

Yep. The car is supposed to be at ride height when you weld in subframe connectors, so the front is actually on ramps with 2x10s on top. I just decided to leave it there while I did the transmission to make things easier. The jack needed the help of a scrap 2x4.

Niiice, looked higher than that from the angle. I need to take some plywood and 2x4s and build some small side ramps for my scissor lift. I get tire of slappin the bottom of the k member on the puller for the safety latch and havin to take the pads off and tuck the arms down low to even get over it. Not even for just my stuff but cars that come into the shop. Scissor lift isn't exactly convenient for tranny work tho but I probably should get that done in short order and make my life easier. Wanna get mine back in the shop and start pullin the top off of her and get goin on real stuff tonight. Need to get what I need off the camaro situated so I can get it back together and that this point I'm probably gonna button it back up na and let it go to cover my latest round of bs

 

[v6buicks]

JB Weld can fix a lot of things.

Thanks for the tips Turbocharged400sbc. The JB weld fixed the spinning issue with the captured bolt. Then I still needed a washer to make up space made by the worn out spring. At that point, the feeder was no longer slipping but getting bogged down. Blowing the feed hose with compressed air made is as smooth as butter. Too bad I have nothing to weld now. ?

 

[v6buicks]

Mattstrike where you at? Remember how you told me to "CAI that shit"? and "Hot air intakes went out of style with hooped skirts and lacey underwear"? Yeah, that stuck with me. I'm not particularly thrilled about having this 3 foot turbulence tube as an intake. However, I can't imagine that the unfavorable flow characteristics are worse than elevated IATs from sucking air behind the radiator in an engine bay that's already known for heat soak issues. Let me know what you all think. If anything, I like the look better. I may be alone in that regard, but it restores the wannabe GN look I was aiming for initially. The other positive is that this tube is a true 3" even when it's compressed or bent. My old one from Spectre was more like 2.5- 2.75"

Stop looking at my rust! I know it's bad!

 

[Rdrnnr]

Mattstrike where you at? Remember how you told me to "CAI that shit"? and "Hot air intakes went out of style with hooped skirts and lacey underwear"? [emoji23] Yeah, that stuck with me. I'm not particularly thrilled about having this 3 foot turbulence tube as an intake. However, I can't imagine that the unfavorable flow characteristics are worse than elevated IATs from sucking air behind the radiator in an engine bay that's already known for heat soak issues. Let me know what you all think. If anything, I like the look better. I may be alone in that regard, but it restores the wannabe GN look I was aiming for initially. The other positive is that this tube is a true 3" even when it's compressed or bent. My old one from Spectre was more like 2.5- 2.75"
View attachment 83183

View attachment 83185
Stop looking at my rust! I know it's bad!

All you can do is watch your iats and see if it helps. If your gonna have it down there get a water guard sock on it. I know you pry won't have it out in the rain but it's added protection from rocks and stuff too. My thoughts on that is your intercooler placement and flow should have as big of impact as your initial filter placement. My iat sensor is out of a vortec 5.7 tapped into the intake so it heat soaks like a bitch. Even if it hits 170ish from heat soak on idle I get out and goose it and it drops real quick to 100 or below and my placement on the camaro sucked. I wanna experiment on this bird and see if I mount it in front of the radiator and let the fans pull through if that could potentially help even more or if I should go back to just leaving it open or having its own fan on it and maybe building its own shroud to pull air through. Need to get some sheet metal out of my hvac buddies one of these days.

The m90 guys are probably more critical about heat than we are but I'm sure it's still a big factor. However I 0 out the iat tables to keep it simple anyway. I'm sure I'll find out I'm in the wrong here for that tho lol

 

[Rdrnnr]

Also, if you like it, send it. It's nobody else's car and I dig the gnx feel. It just wouldn't go with my build well

 

[v6buicks]

Yeah, mines up in the intake right behind the throttle body where the EGR used to go. 170 though?? That's insane. I only recall seeing mine go up to about 140. Mine generally went down to just a little over ambient on a warm day though. I guess E85 is good stuff. lol Then again, the GN rarely gets above 130 with it's CAI.

 

[Rdrnnr]

Yeah, mines up in the intake right behind the throttle body where the EGR used to go. 170 though?? That's insane. I only recall seeing mine go up to about 140. Mine generally went down to just a little over ambient on a warm day though. I guess E85 is good stuff. lol Then again, the GN rarely gets above 130 with it's CAI.

Your turbos also flipped my intake side sits right over the wastegate hence that little shield I put underneath the filter to try and curve some of it. It did help some but it'll help alot more when I get it covered in heat tape too. Looked at tryin to flip mine like yours and I don't think it's gonna be possible unless I can gut the turbo and swap my housings side to side. May kill my dreams of keepin ac but least I won't chop my hvac box up this time. Give and take. I'll tell ya on corn when I get to it I just haven't really got that far yet.View attachment 83208

 

[GTPpower]

I would personally go for a bigger tube. M90's see a gain going from 3" to 4" pipe, so I would think a better compressor would see more pressure drop in there. You could plumb a vacuum gauge in there to see if it's big enough.

 

[v6buicks]

I would personally go for a bigger tube. M90's see a gain going from 3" to 4" pipe, so I would think a better compressor would see more pressure drop in there. You could plumb a vacuum gauge in there to see if it's big enough.

Hmmm interesting. Well shit. I'll try checking with a vacuum gauge at some point then. For now, this is going to stay. I think making a 3.5" or 4" hose fit in there without changing the compressor housing to one with a bigger inlet or cutting a big hole under the fuse block is going to look a bit ugly. I might just have to wait until I can get a turbo with a bigger inlet. That brings up another point. SC vs. turbo. The SC inlet is pretty big. Turbo inlets are only as big as the face of the wheel which is quite a bit smaller than the pipe that runs into it. What's up with that?

 

[GTPpower]

I have to remind myself occasionally that this is a cruiser, and not a strict drag car chasing every single hp.

I just went down a deep, dark rabbit hole. A stock gen 5 is 75mm. So, figure on a stock engine on 6 psi. Also, take an engine with a 75 mm (compressor inducer) turbo on it at 6 psi instead of the blower. From what I'm able to calculate, they both are flowing similar amounts of air at that pressure. But the turbo makes a lot more power since the compressor isn't heating up the air so much, and it's not taking 60hp to drive it. The turbo probably makes 100 more hp or more at that level, and it just gets worse as they turn up. The turbo gets into the sweet spot on its map, and the m90 just heats the air more and takes more power to drive.

So, long story short, I don't think the inlet volume flow is as different as it initially seems.

 

[GTPpower]

That's probably not a great comparison because it's hard to find a turbo and supercharger that are apples to apples.

 

[v6buicks]

I have to remind myself occasionally that this is a cruiser, and not a strict drag car chasing every single hp.

I just went down a deep, dark rabbit hole. A stock gen 5 is 75mm. So, figure on a stock engine on 6 psi. Also, take an engine with a 75 mm (compressor inducer) turbo on it at 6 psi instead of the blower. From what I'm able to calculate, they both are flowing similar amounts of air at that pressure. But the turbo makes a lot more power since the compressor isn't heating up the air so much, and it's not taking 60hp to drive it. The turbo probably makes 100 more hp or more at that level, and it just gets worse as they turn up. The turbo gets into the sweet spot on its map, and the m90 just heats the air more and takes more power to drive.

So, long story short, I don't think the inlet volume flow is as different as it initially seems.

Great to know! I do want to go faster and hurt some feelings or course, but I'm definitely placing reliability, serviceability, and fun over speed. I want to be able to drive this thing everywhere for months at a time and not worry about a thing. That's why I'm really itching for flex fuel. I'm scared to drive this car places if I can't guarantee that there's E85 along the way. I'm strongly considering Microsquirt for this one at some point because I'm starting to get good at wiring and their diagrams look really easy. Plus the tuning support is a lot stronger than HP for 3800s or DHP. We'll see. Transmission first!

 

[Rdrnnr]

I have to remind myself occasionally that this is a cruiser, and not a strict drag car chasing every single hp.

I just went down a deep, dark rabbit hole. A stock gen 5 is 75mm. So, figure on a stock engine on 6 psi. Also, take an engine with a 75 mm (compressor inducer) turbo on it at 6 psi instead of the blower. From what I'm able to calculate, they both are flowing similar amounts of air at that pressure. But the turbo makes a lot more power since the compressor isn't heating up the air so much, and it's not taking 60hp to drive it. The turbo probably makes 100 more hp or more at that level, and it just gets worse as they turn up. The turbo gets into the sweet spot on its map, and the m90 just heats the air more and takes more power to drive.

So, long story short, I don't think the inlet volume flow is as different as it initially seems.

Man idk maybe 100hp on paper cuz on 6 to 8 pounds 100 horse is probably all id gained by goin turbo. Albeit my camaro never really was right and I doubt it was really getting all the boost it should've been, if it was man that turbo had to be zingin and I'm sure it was anyway the way the hotside looked.

As far as flex fuel I had an interesting conversation with a guy about the po5 pcm on the gen5 m90 cars. Pins different but does that pcm have flex capability? Maybe a guy could jack a harness too?

I've kicked around the idea of microsquirt but I'm more inclined to look at platforms I already know, still say it'd be bitchin to wire an e38 or e92 to one of these and play pedal control but it's really just overcomplicating things without vvt and such

 

[GTPpower]

Man idk maybe 100hp on paper cuz on 6 to 8 pounds 100 horse is probably all id gained by goin turbo. Albeit my camaro never really was right and I doubt it was really getting all the boost it should've been, if it was man that turbo had to be zingin and I'm sure it was anyway the way the hotside looked.

As far as flex fuel I had an interesting conversation with a guy about the po5 pcm on the gen5 m90 cars. Pins different but does that pcm have flex capability? Maybe a guy could jack a harness too?

I've kicked around the idea of microsquirt but I'm more inclined to look at platforms I already know, still say it'd be bitchin to wire an e38 or e92 to one of these and play pedal control but it's really just overcomplicating things without vvt and such

A stock gtp will put about 200hp to the wheels. Think you were around 300?

 

[Rdrnnr]

A stock gtp will put about 200hp to the wheels. Think you were around 300?

30 or 31ish on the maf so rough crank. Maybe 250ish to the wheels bein generous? I spose that's still a gain and that's on 8 and a halfish so I'd think it to be ballpark where your thinkin. Maybe if it had been buttoned up instead of havin the issues it did it'd get close to that kinda spread but then circle back around to my iats doin their best Willie Nelson impression and I'm probably lucky it made what it did

 

[v6buicks]

I know I've been telling myself a couple reasons as to why my oil always looks terrible, but blaming condensation from E85 and a vented PVC system just isn't cutting it for me anymore. If I continue driving the car with this vanilla looking oil, I'm going to start wiping out bearings. This is a grainy looking sample of what it l drained last night.

While I was under there, I started chasing down my oil leaks. I have two new suspects on that as well. I really don't want to screw around with doing another oil pan and/or gasket, and I'm willing to bet that yet another turbo drain seal and rear cover gasket are going to solve both of my issues. That Chinese drain fitting I bought is leaking where it meets the turbo and you can follow wetness all the way down to the pan. I'm almost thinking that another paper gasket would do a better job because I can't even guarantee that the Chinese turbo flange surface is flat enough for a face seal oring. Worth a shot.

Anyway... after about 15 minutes worth of sifting through the pages of this thread I finally came back to this post to finish typing it out. I guess I never asked for advice regarding the rear cover despite the reservations I was having. Remember this from page 14?

Pepperidge Farms remembers!

Yeah, I was laying under the car and actually noticed a drip fall from the flywheel cover which is wild since the car hasn't been started in days. Then I remembered those funky bolts with the disintegrating plastic sleeves around them. I was talking to a buddy who says that the plastic is for alignment which is actually pretty critical. I had no idea. I suppose having the majority of those sleeves fall apart could be causing my external leaks as well as a slow coolant leak into the oil. This would also explain why I seem to be a hair low on coolant every couple months.

Now what? I was planning on taking the flywheel off anyway so that's good, but where on earth can I find those rear cover bolts? Can I just get the alignment sleeves? This may have to be a separate topic in the 3800 discussion. Please advise!

The fun didn't stop. I started getting ready to pull the T5 out. I broke the power stud off the starter solenoid. Luckily I have a brand new one in the basement. I also found that my over axle brake lines finally started leaking too. The fun never ends!

 

[v6buicks]

I did a quick google, and found this picture from Fiero.nl. I guess these little sleeves are meant to help hold the cover in place but not necessarily align it? Then you still need to align the cover yourself with a straight edge on the bottom of the block. In other words, I severely screwed this up last time by not removing the oil pan adn attempting to "align" it by smashing the cover down against the pan.

SO FUCK

I now I have to do a rear cover gasket, rear main seal, AND an oil pan gasket.

Thinking about everything I need to do are causing me to look at the complete picture again.
-Lift engine
-Drop K-member
-Replace oil pan gasket
-Replace rear cover gasket/rear main
-Drill/tap crank
-Replace brake lines
-Pioneer a transmission conversion

No, I'm not giving up on the car! I don't have cold feet. However, this perfect storm I have sounds like a recipe for an out-of-frame service. The brake lines need to be opened anyway, and the TKX is almost 100lbs heavier than the T5 which I already have issues with lifting on my own. I'm not going to lie though. I'm scared. That's a biiiig can of worms for this car since I swore that the K-member would never be removed without a tubular k-member and front suspension to replace it My shit is way too rusty to put back in. I also swore that I wouldn't remove it without being prepared to do serious rust remediation to the engine bay. Yikes. Please talk me out of it. lol

 

[Rdrnnr]

I did a quick google, and found this picture from Fiero.nl. I guess these little sleeves are meant to help hold the cover in place but not necessarily align it? Then you still need to align the cover yourself with a straight edge on the bottom of the block. In other words, I severely screwed this up last time by not removing the oil pan adn attempting to "align" it by smashing the cover down against the pan.
View attachment 83289

SO FUCK

I now I have to do a rear cover gasket, rear main seal, AND an oil pan gasket.

Thinking about everything I need to do are causing me to look at the complete picture again.
-Lift engine
-Drop K-member
-Replace oil pan gasket
-Replace rear cover gasket/rear main
-Drill/tap crank
-Replace brake lines
-Pioneer a transmission conversion

No, I'm not giving up on the car! I don't have cold feet. However, this perfect storm I have sounds like a recipe for an out-of-frame service. The brake lines need to be opened anyway, and the TKX is almost 100lbs heavier than the T5 which I already have issues with lifting on my own. I'm not going to lie though. I'm scared. That's a biiiig can of worms for this car since I swore that the K-member would never be removed without a tubular k-member and front suspension to replace it My shit is way too rusty to put back in. I also swore that I wouldn't remove it without being prepared to do serious rust remediation to the engine bay. Yikes. Please talk me out of it. lol

Might as well drop a double roller and whatever cam these guys think is best in while your at it. Sell those squeaky yet pretty 1.9s. Gonna have you a brand new badass car when your done

 

[v6buicks]

Might as well drop a double roller and whatever cam these guys think is best in while your at it. Sell those squeaky yet pretty 1.9s. Gonna have you a brand new badass car when your done

That was what one of my buddies was trying to tell me. I don't have the money to be buying a timing set, cam, lifters, springs (again), and associated gaskets. By the time I'm done I will have spent a grand which is not in the budget. The engine works fine as it is. If I pull it I might put the stock rockers in it while it's out, but that would be it.

I think I've talked myself out of it. Doing so would be the correct answer for somebody with a lift or a bigger shop space. However, I know how I operate. When I see something wrong, I act on it. After all the time I spend building stands for the body and yanking this assembly, I know that I'm going to want to start screwing around with the rust that the engine buries, and the car will for sure be stuck in the garage all summer. Then I risk losing interest in it. These jobs might suck to do on the floor, but I'll get over it.

 

[Rdrnnr]

Get that tranny in it and enjoy it, tear it back apart this winter. That's my goal man. Put her down the track and cruise around with the kids. I'll make it nice later

 

[v6buicks]

I think the majority of transmission jacks on the market are a terrible design. They either dont hold the trans well enough or hold on so tight. Plus, it's another thing to store. I got an idea and made my own.

Big enough threads to hold something strong but not so big that I lose the key hole.

After connecting four very tight bungee cords, I wiggled the T5 of the dowls and down it came! It honestly didn't even feel sketchy. It was for sure the quickest T5 removal I've do e yet.

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

The sleeves are just a plastic glue gun type glue to hold the bolts in the cover so that they are in place for engine assembly as the parts come to the build station in the assembly tray. It just plain Cuts time when a machine installs the bolts and all the person has to do is please sit and have the machine Titan them.

It doesn't have to be perfectly flush to the pan rail both the early and later rear main seals have a good amount of elasticity to compensate for .010 misalignment.

The milky oil that's very likely an internal coolant leak which means either the timing cover the rear cover or the intake. Do you remember when this issue started showing up was it after you had done any one of those services in particular question

 

[v6buicks]

The sleeves are just a plastic glue gun type glue to hold the bolts in the cover so that they are in place for engine assembly as the parts come to the build station in the assembly tray. It just plain Cuts time when a machine installs the bolts and all the person has to do is please sit and have the machine Titan them.

It doesn't have to be perfectly flush to the pan rail both the early and later rear main seals have a good amount of elasticity to compensate for .010 misalignment.

The milky oil that's very likely an internal coolant leak which means either the timing cover the rear cover or the intake. Do you remember when this issue started showing up was it after you had done any one of those services in particular question

I've never done the front cover. I really don't remember when the milky oil started. It seems like it's been that way since I first started running E85 which would mean it happened after I did intake gaskets.

 

[v6buicks]

I'm very certain that I have an oil leak back there anyway, so the rear cover and pan gaskets are gonna get changed regardless. I might even try to buy a used OE pan since I hate this dorman one so much.