🔧 BUILD LAME Turbo V6 Camaro

[v6buicks]

Lord have MERCY! I finally found exactly what I was looking for all along.

Inline Orifice Tube Repair Kit with Crimp on Fittings

This inline orifice tube repair kit allows you to move your orifice tube anywhere within your liquid line. The crimp sleeves of the kit crimp to # 6 standard barrier hose. The adapter has an overall length of 9 3/4"

coldhose.com

That'll do. The trick then will be finding somebody who can actually crimp AC stuff. I think the hose and fitting store by work has the right tools. It looks to me like Cold Hose can make just about anything I want, so I should be set on fittings!

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

Srsly?!?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/uac-ft0820ktc?seid=srese1&gclid=CjwKCAjwiJqWBhBdEiwAtESPaM9M4S9UwARGO7jB5CwA7P9VP1-HwyH5ou5xq2pJ4Hpxp5mHVIdoShoCDloQAvD_BwE

 

[v6buicks]

Srsly?!?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/uac-ft0820ktc?seid=srese1&gclid=CjwKCAjwiJqWBhBdEiwAtESPaM9M4S9UwARGO7jB5CwA7P9VP1-HwyH5ou5xq2pJ4Hpxp5mHVIdoShoCDloQAvD_BwE

I knew about those and was considering going that way, but I couldn't get any information about fitting sizes. There's a bunch of different versions of these kits for different applications yet I can't get any real information from them. It's looking like -6 is a pretty standard liquid line size, but I don't want to assume anything. My evaporator fittings looked pretty bastard sized when I measured.

That swage fitting is goofy too. Idk how I would adapt it unless I was going to try cutting up a stock line from something else. That's not out of the question, but at that point I shouldn't need the repair kit.

 

[v6buicks]

Finally some slightly motivating progress

I failed to figure in the thickness of the plate and how far it sits out from the flange of the HVAC box which is awesome! That means the evaporator will have an even lower profile! Two rows hidden and only one exposed!

I can't talk about the roses without mentioning the thorns though. The ebay HVAC delete plates USED to be very nice and thick. IDK wtf happened in their process, but I knew I was in trouble when I started reading the directions. TLDR: "Our product is shit and won't fit right. We aren't going to tell you that though. Use smaller bolts and nuts during installation which are not provided." I know this part is not intended for how I'm using it, but damn! I could have made this better myself with a jigsaw, drill, and tape measure.

 

[v6buicks]

Indy Motor Speedway hosts a C&C inside the track, and it's glorious.

Ever heard of a Grand LeMans with a factory big block? Me neither.

1966 442 ?

Factory triple black LS6 4-speed Chevelle

Lancia Scorpion

RB28TT Datsun

Mintiest Probe in existence

90s Taco Bell

All-Trac

Volare

Brat!!!

I see this Capri everywhere. It's gorgeous.

Prelude flexin that 4ws

????

NEAT! Model A with an SVO swap.

1929 Cord

Beefy half leafs!

Seemingly impossible 32V swap in a 1st gen Mustang! Original shock towers obviously had to go.

 

[Euro]

IDK what to comment on. Nice variety for sure. There's a guy that works a block from me in Roselle that drives his black All Trac Celica to work sometimes. I don't believe it's that car, though.

That Probe is minty AF

Love the SVO swap, never seen that before!

 

[v6buicks]

Time to go

It was a cool trip and I love driving my car around. I also don't know what to do with all my newfound free time! Since forcing myself to stop taking my car apart, I got bored and lazy. At the same time, I really didn't want to take anything apart again. Getting a truck to replace my daily driver was also proving to be way too expensive. Instead of just continuing to be patient, the idea of dumping my Volvo in favor of a minty PAU or Electra T-type popped into my head. Despite a big Buick having more interior space, better fuel mileage, and running on cheaper gas, I couldn't imagine that swapping a ten year old daily that I know everything about for an unknown 20 year old car is a good move. It's an even dumber move when I consider that I don't want to work on anything right now. lol

Getting another potential project as a daily has never worked out well for me, so I needed a way to get myself motivated on my current stuff again. I went to marketplace and typed in "3800" to see what I would find. I figured in the 1/1,000,000 chance that I find a nice set of heads I'd have a complete set of neat stuff to install for my cam swap.

Well what do you fuckin' know.... FIRST AD ON THE TOP is a Grand Prix part out with IS3 heads. $750. Brand new, those are $1900 with a month-long lead time.

The kicker is that they're in Pittsburgh, he's not shipping, and he's not even removing them himself. Given my horrible luck with marketplace, I was not liking the circumstances AT ALL. At the same time, I wasn't not letting a deal like this fall through. It was a hell of an adventure, but a huge lucky success. I was able to leave my house at 11:30 (left as soon as the counter tops were done being installed in my kitchen), get to Pittsburgh with virtually no traffic by 5:15, remove the IS3 heads with the whole car still mostly together in the guy's gravel driveway, seal the deal including a set of ARP studs, port match blower intake, modular GenV, W-body adjustable strut brace, and some other little shit before by 7:00, and get home before 1:00AM. I even managed to get to work on time today. I'm sore AF, but this was so worth it. This trip almost deserves it's own thread, because it was a roller coaster full of dumb luck!

If anybody want's a W-body strut tower brace, let me know. I'll give you a great deal. The guy really wanted me to have that for some reason.

 

[v6buicks]

Oh yeah, I know this doesn't add any actual value to the thread, but I can't stop thinking about how my ST5 cam and IS3 heads are going to turn LAME V6 into a fucking beast.

I'd say my goal of project focus has been achieved.

 

[v6buicks]

Also not adding a whole lot of value to the thread, but I had some new thoughts regarding the direction I want to take with this car.

Let me start by saying that nothing about my immediate plans are changing. The IS3 heads, cam, and supporting parts are going on the car and that will be it before taking it to Brian for more dyno time. I will probably try to gasket match my LIM and exhaust manifolds, plug the intake bungs, smooth those out internally, and run fuel logs or an SC rail. That will be it, and hopefully it's enough to get me dang close if not beyond my 600hp. I'm betting the 80s and fuel max out earlier though.

I have a feeling this won't satisfy my desires as a street driven toy though. One thing that my heart desires is that snappy big block block response. This car is so lame around town and when I'm cruising. With a manual it takes forever to get into boost, so unless I have a wide open road and I'm really itching to spend a night in jail, the car never really gets into boost. I noticed that I really don't drive this car to work because the lack of comfort in shitty F-body seats and no AC doesn't get outweighed by the power numbers that I never get to feel. The power is so non-linear that every practical drive is not much different than driving a stock V6 car with loud exhaust everywhere.

While I understand that a V6 will never feel like a big block, something has to change. Peak power is cool. We all like numbers, but for people don't race much or ever it's kind of worthless. The WOT box will help get off the line, but I'm not going to be cutting ignition at every stop light. lol I'm not a nitrous fan either. I already have to fill a fuel tank, I'm not filling bottles. I want something that's just going to be there all the time, so why not a blower?

Compound charging seems to be a very hot debate. Those who have done it right seem to love it. Others say its a big waste of time and money because it just robs you of the top end power that a turbo makes all on it's own. I see it both ways, although it's hard for me to form an opinion since I've never felt the supposed seamless transition from instant SC torque to high hp turbo boost. It may not be a big block, but I imagine that the feeling is decently replicated when you stand on the throttle.

Zeph was offering to take in one of my blower cases for an experimental machining project. He would hog out the recirculation valve passage and replace the valve with throttle blades. This should help at least with the crazy IAT problems associated with compounding. I just don't know if the compounding effects will be noticeably positive enough to justify building a very custom M90.

This is all kind of just babbling because I'm still a long way away from finishing the AC project, cutting the core support off the car, replacing the radiator and fans, and even starting just the heads/cam swap. I will almost certainly need to get a rear end before then which will have a 3.73 in it. At that point I may not even care about the boost issue anymore, so I guess I'm just trying to start a fight. Most of the racers say to keep it simple and go faster. I'm not a racer though. The couple twin charged guys with "just fun" street cars like mine are like "Hell yeah. Do it. You'll love it." I also haven't ridden in their cars, so maybe I would be unimpressed? Then again, if they're saying that while sporting an automatic, I imagine the effect will be felt even more in my stick car.

 

[GTPpower]

I was going to say twin charge it before I could read fast enough.

A local guy here just manual swapped his grand Prix and it's twin charged. It's definitely the way to go, especially if you don't care about peak power.

 

[v6buicks]

I was going to say twin charge it before I could read fast enough.

A local guy here just manual swapped his grand Prix and it's twin charged. It's definitely the way to go, especially if you don't care about peak power.

NGL. I know you're the M90 man, but I really didn't expect you to be on the twin charge train. NEAT. Good to know. I really wish I could ride in it because that sounds awesome.

 

[GTPpower]

NGL. I know you're the M90 man, but I really didn't expect you to be on the twin charge train. NEAT. Good to know. I really wish I could ride in it because that sounds awesome.

I really hate m90's. I just don't have the money to build a record breaking turbo car.

Fly into Lincoln, and I'm sure he would give you a ride. He's offered to let me drive it.

 

[bs009]

If you want to get wild there are other blowers out there too that could be a better fit than the M90. Not sure how they'd fit under the windshield hood thing the f-body has though.
If you can weld aluminum you could add a port to the LIM and use a very large couple of wastegates as a better flowing BBV or use an electronic throttle body too. That was an idea I had when I was looking at the compound-ish route but it was more work than I wanted to do since I rarely drive my car enough for it to bother me.

I absolutely love getting through traffic in my 3.4 pulley Regal though. It's not as fast as my GP but the throttle response is instantaneous in comparison

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

You could always put a screw compressor from a Ford GT on it... talk to turtleman

 

[v6buicks]

Twin charging is looking more and more enticing now. Maybe I won't wait to make that change. Heads, cam, blower, and fuel system upgrades all in one shot.

I'm trying to not get too excited though. I still really want AC first. I think I finished all the plastic welding today. I still need to trim the recirc valve, but that won't be hard.

As usual it's not pretty, but it'll do! The evaporator still fits perfectly too. ? I'm probably going to trim the recirculation valve next so that I can be done with plastic. Then I'll move on to fiberglass.

I never really considered this until just now. I wonder if I could just make the custom evaporator bump out of plastic. It would be super easy. I just need to find enough heat resistant plastic and a way to insulate it from the exhaust. Google time.

 

[v6buicks]

I'm excited about the AC.... but I can't stop thinking about blowers.

I'm really hung up on a couple things. One is BBV operation. This isn't nearly as critical unless you're bosting the blower inlet, so getting solid information on this is tough. I talked to a one guy who has a 10 second twin charged GTP in Alberta. It put a couple things into perspective. 1). Twin charging is an awful bang for buck if racing is your only goal. Don't get me wrong, I'm impressed as hell with the fact that his boost gauge goes from 0-40 in under a second. However, I don't see that need for that at the track. 40psi = 10 sec 1/4 mile? Hmmm. Something's clearly dragging it down! On the other hand, I love this dyno graph.

jeeeeez. I can only imagine how much higher those numbers would be with a turbo only.

Anyway, The other thing I kinda figured out is that the BBV doesn't really need to be as complicated as GM made it.

This looks pretty smart to me. A wastegate actuator in place of the stock actuator gives you a spring instead of a vacuum reference port. If I wanted, I could get an adjustable unit for fine tuning too. The only kicker with this is that the BBV stays closed during idle. In the end, the IAC/throttle is only going to allow so much air in, but you may be introducing a lot of unwanted heat. I'm sure those IATs would be lovely after a long stint in traffic. I'm not sure how anyone would go about opening a wastegate at idle either. Ideas/suggestions are welcome.

Speaking of heat, I have another issue. In an F-body that still has a cowl there really isn't room for an intercooler sandwich plate. A short stack might fit, but I think it would be impossible to put the bolts in. I also wonder if a W2A is entirely necessary in this case. My thinking is that the blower is only there to provide a few psi while the turbo spools up and takes over. Will E85 be enough cooling to until the intercooled turbo kicks in and the BBV opens? If not, will meth injection do the trick? Can it be sprayed into the blower or is that bad? Spraying under the blower sounds more doable than an intercooler, but still a bit tricky.

This stuff is complicated but I love it.

 

[Mr_Roboto]

I'm excited about the AC.... but I can't stop thinking about blowers.

I'm really hung up on a couple things. One is BBV operation. This isn't nearly as critical unless you're bosting the blower inlet, so getting solid information on this is tough. I talked to a one guy who has a 10 second twin charged GTP in Fla. It put a couple things into perspective. 1). Twin charging is an awful bang for buck if racing is your only goal. Don't get me wrong, I'm impressed as hell with the fact that his boost gauge goes from 0-40 in under a second. However, I don't see that need for that at the track. 40psi = 10 sec 1/4 mile? Hmmm. Something's clearly dragging it down! On the other hand, I love this dyno graph.
View attachment 126406
jeeeeez. I can only imagine how much higher those numbers would be with a turbo only.

Anyway, The other thing I kinda figured out is that the BBV doesn't really need to be as complicated as GM made it.
View attachment 126407
This looks pretty smart to me. A wastegate actuator in place of the stock actuator gives you a spring instead of a vacuum reference port. If I wanted, I could get an adjustable unit for fine tuning too. The only kicker with this is that the BBV stays closed during idle. In the end, the IAC/throttle is only going to allow so much air in, but you may be introducing a lot of unwanted heat. I'm sure those IATs would be lovely after a long stint in traffic. I'm not sure how anyone would go about opening a wastegate at idle either. Ideas/suggestions are welcome.

Speaking of heat, I have another issue. In an F-body that still has a cowl there really isn't room for an intercooler sandwich plate. A short stack might fit, but I think it would be impossible to put the bolts in. I also wonder if a W2A is entirely necessary in this case. My thinking is that the blower is only there to provide a few psi while the turbo spools up and takes over. Will E85 be enough cooling to until the intercooled turbo kicks in and the BBV opens? If not, will meth injection do the trick? Can it be sprayed into the blower or is that bad? Spraying under the blower sounds more doable than an intercooler, but still a bit tricky.

This stuff is complicated but I love it.

There was a thread on the turbo forums about twin charging the result was most people saw boost about 500 rpm earlier from what I remember.

 

[v6buicks]

There was a thread on the turbo forums about twin charging the result was most people saw boost about 500 rpm earlier from what I remember.

From what I'm reading that seems to be about right if you maintain the stock BBV solenoid logic. Most people seem to leave it alone and let the boost compound (not good). If 500rpm is as good as it gets, I'd quickly reconsider the whole thing. I think we can do better though. Blowers should be immediate satisfaction!

Edit: Like full boost or any boost? I could definitely see full boost coming in just a tad earlier.

 

[GTPpower]

John's car is an interesting one. It has some issues, and I think he broke the transmission. So it should be faster and probably will if he gets it back together. I thought he was in Canada?

If you run the stock bypass, I would keep a stock pulley on it, or a 3.4. that would allow no problems without an intercooler. Also, they seem to have a tendency to compound with small pulleys, so that would help avoid that.

If I was going to supercharge a fbody, I would try to get something like this to work. They are tvs1900's and cheap!

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[v6buicks]

John's car is an interesting one. It has some issues, and I think he broke the transmission. So it should be faster and probably will if he gets it back together. I thought he was in Canada?

If you run the stock bypass, I would keep a stock pulley on it, or a 3.4. that would allow no problems without an intercooler. Also, they seem to have a tendency to compound with small pulleys, so that would help avoid that.

If I was going to supercharge a fbody, I would try to get something like this to work. They are tvs1900's and cheap!

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Yep. Edited. He's from Alberta.

Shoooot. That would be cool, but dang. That would be a ton more work than I'm interested in taking on. The forward facing throttle is nice, but the snout is on the wrong side. After the adapter plate needed to make it work at all, I would probably need to move my alternator and cut my cowl. Since I don't need the crazy amounts of air for high rpm, I'm thinking an M90 with a smallish pulley should be okay.

If I do this, I'm not running the stock bypass. I'm starting to get a grasp on why so many people have issues with twin charging, and the tiny BBV allowing for compounding and stupid high IAT seems to be a big part of it. Tyler Bloch was able to hog his bore out enough to fit an Ecotec throttle body in there. It's very crude as of right now, but he proved the concept with very limited tools. I'm excited to try something myself or even let Zeph give it go if he finds time. I just haven't figured out how to control it yet.

 

[Mr_Roboto]

Some moretherfucking turbo encabulator action going on in here.

If you're building an adapter plate, just fit a flange in there for the TB and eliminate the stocker (or hell, keep it for high vacuum) Is there anywhere on the stock intake you could just punch a hole in and weld a tube/flange up? Your'e going to have to mod an M90 pretty heavily to get it to work anyways.

 

[v6buicks]

Some moretherfucking turbo encabulator action going on in here.

If you're building an adapter plate, just fit a flange in there for the TB and eliminate the stocker (or hell, keep it for high vacuum) Is there anywhere on the stock intake you could just punch a hole in and weld a tube/flange up? Your'e going to have to mod an M90 pretty heavily to get it to work anyways.

That was an idea I thought of doing too. Part of the problem is that I really don't want to use any sort of adapter plate or intercooler. I don't have the space under my cowl. I was hoping it would be simple to punch a hole in the back of the LIM and route it externally like you're getting at, but that's where all the coolant flows to the thermostat. It could still be done, but I think you would be left with a hole that flows less or equal to the amount of the stock valve. Running the stock valve plus the custom external would probably be enough, but that too would be some very complicated fab work.

It's not out of the question! I might be able to relocate the coolant and thermostat to a better location too!

 

[v6buicks]

oooooo!! Domo arigato Mr_Roboto. Your comment reminds me that remote thermostat housings exist. Since the blower intake requires a horrible/goofy upper rad hose on the F-bodies anyway, this might be a great time to explore that route. I will be studying an intake later.

 

[Mr_Roboto]

I'm guessing you're talking along the lines of boring the stocker out then and adding a different butterfly? Would be curious how much meat is there, but I'd sublet the actual job of that to someone with a Bridgeport. It wouldn't be horridly difficult for them to locate it then it it with a boring bar.

 

[v6buicks]

Oh man was I excited to take a look at this, and I'm even more excited to do some experiments now that I have!

I don't think I can move the water outlet to the front. That's the only negative I can see so far. The FWD LIMs had their water passages cast a little differently. By the time I fixed that, a FGT adapter to the F-body intake would have been a lot easier. lol The bump running down the middle is a log where coolant flows back from the heater elbow and the cylinder heads. I can't get a great picture of it, but take my word for it when I say that there's no way to make enough coolant flow out the front of an SC LIM.

Not all hope is lost though. You know those bumps on the back of the intake held on with two bolts? Fun fact: ALL coolant to the radiator flows through that little thing. It's kind of shocking that it's enough. In the picture below, you can see the coolant passage from the rest of the engine on the right and the port to the thermostat on the left. This is a relatively common thing to hog out and allow for more flow. Necessary? Not for most people. Does it hurt? I can't see why it would.

...back on topic. Why is this relevant? Well, this goofy bolt-on crossover finally makes sense. GM definitely made that so degenerate hotrodders like myself can delete that shit. Check it out. If I remove the water crossover, weld the passage shut, cut a big hole in the adjacent side, weld a pipe onto THAT hole, and run a remote thermostat over the blower (ugly but functional) I can do away with the factory thermostat.

To do this, you would need to block the throttle body water ports, but that's a given right?! NOW with the original thermostat housing and water neck completely bypassed and useless, that whole little corner of the intake manifold can be chopped off. There will still be a wall separating the plenum area from the ex-coolant passage that when knocked out should be a big enough area to redirect quite a bit more air from the turbo to the LIM.

OMG

The excitement is building. This shit could work. The icing on the cake is that I shouldn't need to do anything special to the original BBV. I can still port the outlet, but hogging the hole for bigger blades would be a massive undertaking. I'm not trying to underestimate the undertaking of all this cast aluminum welding, but it's at least something I'm a little more comfortable with. I also think there's an extra advantage. Controlling it should be super easy. I think the original BBV can function like stock with an open idle. The remote custom BBV can operate on a wastegate actuator and open only when all the air needs a new path.

Good thing I have a Gen 3 intake that I won't feel bad chopping up for experimentation purposes! I also have a coffee table I can use for mock-up. This project honeymooning phase is always so much fun. ? Execution is probably cursed now. ?