🔧 BUILD LAME Turbo V6 Camaro

[sktchy]

I believe 99 was the cutoff year for v6 fbodys from drive by cable to drive by wire and when the dash wiring and gauges were changed. If you wanted to look for an older cluster or somethin.

 

[v6buicks]

I was fighting nap time really hard after work yesterday. I slept like shit again, but I was also really excited to have pleased the wife enough over the weekend to deserve some car time.

I ended up blowing both HVAC units apart, and I wasn't particularly impressed with either one. One is really dirty on the outside but nice on the inside. The other is the opposite. I almost regret bringing them into my house because I'm probably going to get bird flu every time I go into the basement now.. Dirt can be handled though. The part that's disappointing is that both have clearly had their heater cores replaced by amateurs. One has stripped out screw holes and the other has a hole punched in it to reroute the vacuum tube they pinched. ?‍ It's crappy, but I lucked out in not having the same failures or "modifications" on both boxes. I removed the evaporators from both, and took all the best parts from each box to make one really nice one. I'm really glad I got two! Here's the Frankenbox that I'll clean up and cut-up.

Here's what the stock air path looks like. It's too bulky, but that how the Americans led the way in auto AC! I'm only expecting about the same performance as the R-134a retrofitted 240 with the R12 TXV and horribly 80s european heat exchangers.

I took the new evaporator and held it up for size. I don't think it could be sized any better for my plan! The height is perfect. ? I could not have done any better there. The length is a bit longer than I would like because I'll have to modify the blend door a bit, but that's no biggie either. Once the work is done I'll be happy to have a little more evaporator. The width (stick out from the firewall plate) is still a bit of a question mark. I looked at my downpipe again, and was thankful to see a lot more room between it and the firewall. In the worst case scenario, I'll have to make some tweaks to the downpipe again, but I still think I can avoid it.

I was finally able to make a little drawing that might better explain everything. The red box is where the evaporator will live. The blue line is the wall I'll make in front of the evaporator so that air can pass from the blower motor, through the evaporator, through the evaporator again, and then through the blend door. I've never seen a system where air passes through a heat exchanger twice. It's either going to cause an efficiency issue where the gas turns to liquid again on the far end of the evaporator due to to the air going across already being cold, or all the hot air going across such a small portion of the evaporator will only cool it slightly on one end and finish it on the other. I'm hoping for option number two! Then again, both the inlet and outlet will be on the hot air side so it may be fine either way. I'm not a scientist. I'm just a hotrodder!

Also don't mind the restrictive parabola that I drew. I promise, I'll make it so that my blower doesn't have to work that hard!

This is as far as I got. My Dremel overheated and kicked the bucket while I was working on a house project. I don't know if I want another Dremel or some kind of cordless rotary tool. Either way, I'm kinda stuck. My wife would kill me if I bought more garage stuff right now. lol

 

[Mr_Roboto]

I'd say go the other direction of wireless and look up Foredoms on ebay. Bit more spend but man I think that's where I'm going when my dremel finishes up.

In terms of the box, shouldn't be bad. I made one for the Fastro by chopping a stocker, using some fitted aluminum sheet and RTV to seal it (yeah it looked hack but it worked) back in the day to reclaim real estate. You'll be glad you did, you're not working in a van engine compartment but still it's nice to get back even a few square inches.

 

[v6buicks]

I'd say go the other direction of wireless and look up Foredoms on ebay. Bit more spend but man I think that's where I'm going when my dremel finishes up.

In terms of the box, shouldn't be bad. I made one for the Fastro by chopping a stocker, using some fitted aluminum sheet and RTV to seal it (yeah it looked hack but it worked) back in the day to reclaim real estate. You'll be glad you did, you're not working in a van engine compartment but still it's nice to get back even a few square inches.

I'll give it a look!

What sucks is that I made a whole bunch of space by doing a full delete and got used to all the room for activities! Lol. I considered doing something like that with welded sheet metal, but I'm thinking it'll be a combination of thin sheet metal for strength and fiberglass for weight and insulating properties.

 

[GTPpower]

I really like my Milwaukee m12 die grinders, but those might be more than you want to spend.

 

[Mr_Roboto]

Those look nice, man I'd be inclined to go after a compressor if I didn't have one for that kinda bank though. If you're patient you can pick something nice of CL for that kinda money. I got a really nice 3HP compressor for $275 for instance. Gotta say my power for it is hack (unplug the dryer, plug the compressor in) but it works. Air grinder is more the right size to work on an air box than a dremel is though admittedly. The Foredom kind of gives you flexibility towards both though honestly.

 

[v6buicks]

I just went for it. Home Depot had a pretty killer deal. Most places had the Milwaukee M12 tool only for $80. I was able to get the tool with charger, battery, cutoff attachment and 4 wheels for $80. My drawer full of Dremel attachments will all work with the Milwaukee stuff too.

I finally feel like a man again buying real tools. I'm finding the limitations of my Rigid collection, and paying for snap Snap-Ons dropping quality makes their price feel like non-consensual butt stuff.

In case anyone is interested.

Milwaukee M12 12V Lithium-Ion Cordless Rotary Tool Kit with One 1.5Ah Battery, Charger, Tool Bag 2460-21 - The Home Depot

This compact, portable and powerful cutoff solution for the professional offers exceptional speed and longevity. Get the power of corded with Milwaukee's M12 lithium-ion Cordless Rotary Tool Kit, which

www.homedepot.com

 

[sktchy]

I really like my Milwaukee m12 die grindIers, but those might be more than you want to spend.

Money well spent.

 

[v6buicks]

bs009 I'm talking to Monster. They still have all the designs from the unit they made for you, but I want to make extra sure that this is going to be right for the TKX. I know we recently talked about this somewhere, but I can't remember which thread. Did you by chance measure how tall the entire unit was? I know you mentioned that you moved your TOB back an inch. I think I'll have room in my bellhousing for everything to fit, but it might also be pretty tight.

 

[v6buicks]

Nvm. I found your answer.

the new clutch is 0.928" wider than the stock clutch by my measurements. So the LS1 bellousing + 1/2" spacer (malwood adapter) gave me the perfect clearance for it.

I had no idea they made electric A/C compressors! It would be amazing to only have to run an alternator with all electric accessories someday haha!

I can probably deal with that.

 

[bs009]

Also keep in mind you'll need to have it balanced as well once you get it. They shipped mine to me balanced to 0.

It's a big unit so it might be tight in the bellhousing

I don't have any side by side pictures but I bet if you put like 1" of spacers between your old pressure plate and flywheel you could get a pretty good idea of whether it will clear the bellhousing

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

Looking at that gave both me and the Cressida a slight Chubb.

 

[v6buicks]

I didn't take pictures but you can just imagine how ridiculous this looked. I was ready for bed by the time I remembered to check a bell. The only 3rd gen bell I have is on my car, so I tried the 4th gen bell. I had a rusty virgin flywheel but the only pressure plate I had was one that I turned into a clock. I pulled this thing off the wall....

...put it on the flywheel which was sitting on the ground, and set a bell on top of it. I figured that the trinkets JB Welded to the top was enough of a height difference to prove the point. It didn't fit, but it was only because of the built in dust shield or whatever that is.

My bell doesn't have that though ?, and the the clearance everywhere else was more than a finger could bang. I'm in good shape to run the Monster! I got to thinking about that some more last night and it's kind of a shame that they didn't mirror balance it to the original flywheel, but Monster is probably assuming that anybody paying that much for a custom twin disk is building the engine too. In that case, a clean slate is preferable. Oh well. Even cringier is the fact that I'll need to hog out the mounting holes for my ARP bolts. ? I was sketched out doing that to the shitty cast flywheel. I don't think I can gain the courage to risk putting football-shaped holes with a hand drill into my Monster flywheel. I may bring an ARP bolt to the machine shop and have them deal with that too.

 

[v6buicks]

I have to confess that I've been in a deep funk that's been going on since about October. I've been short-tempered, lazy, depressed, sedentary, and overall unhappy. The car has been my distraction from everything. I know my build thread isn't really the place to talk about life, but my point is that I finally gave myself the swift kick in the ass that I need to turn it around. This means that the Camaro may be required to sit and wait for a while. I can play with the AC box when I have free time since that's mostly just labor and materials that I already have. However, I may not get a clutch this year. I guarantee that the AC won't be finished this year, and I've even considered just hanging this car up indefinitely once I get that stuff done.

Priorities are shifting. I've had a ton of fun building this this thing and making it into what it is. I know it has a lot more in it, but I'm not sure if it's worth everything I would have to sacrifice to get it. The cheap and easy satisfaction has long since been achieved. All that's left is pricey and/or laborious. I need to be seriously saving up for a new daily instead of a $1600 clutch, $3000 rear end, $???? cylinder heads, and who the hell knows what else. It doesn't help that I have no space to do anything.

I would have no issue just parking this thing if I had a barn with a bunch of space to play and store, but that's looking like more and more of a pipe dream too. I don't foresee the car going anywhere. If space ends up being the only issue then I'll make or rent room. It's just the first time that I've felt this sort of way about the car while it's running and driving better than it ever has.

I did make microscopic progress last night. Despite everything I just said and my Milwaukee rotary tool still being stuck in FedEx, I've been wanting to experiment with custom accessories since before I sold the 240. I still feel like I evaded a very cool and fun project by getting rid of that car, so making this AC work is more of motivation than the actual car itself. The evaporator bump was cut off with a pneumatic cut-off tool and a sawzall. Dusty mess!

I'm still amazed that this size of automotive evaporator exists.

More hacking to accommodate the evaporator.

Since the evaporator will need to be recessed into the box an inch or two, the blend door will need to be cut which kind of sucks. I will have to make a wall on each opening slightly larger than the part that's cut off the door so that all the air is directed to the right place when the heater core passage is fully open or fully closed. I think this will be one of the most difficult parts of this system to pull off.

I'm still excited/determined as hell to make this work though. I have the evaporator at work with me because I need to take some measurements on the fittings to determine what line/hose fittings I need. I've been researching on and off about orifice tube fittings and answers are proving to be very difficult to find. It seems that all the aftermarket AC systems have a TXV built in to them, so orifice tubes and accumulators are not common part to adapt for custom use. I may need to find a factory OT system in a junkyard that uses the same line size as this evaporator, rob it's lines, and bend them to the shape I need. I can probably get some premade aluminum lines and swage a "repair" kit onto it too, but that's a little hack IMO. I'll keep searching.

 

[Jimy Bilmo]

I have to confess that I've been in a deep funk that's been going on since about October. I've been short-tempered, lazy, depressed, sedentary, and overall unhappy. The car has been my distraction from everything. I know my build thread isn't really the place to talk about life, but my point is that I finally gave myself the swift kick in the ass that I need to turn it around. This means that the Camaro may be required to sit and wait for a while. I can play with the AC box when I have free time since that's mostly just labor and materials that I already have. However, I may not get a clutch this year. I guarantee that the AC won't be finished this year, and I've even considered just hanging this car up indefinitely once I get that stuff done.

Priorities are shifting. I've had a ton of fun building this this thing and making it into what it is. I know it has a lot more in it, but I'm not sure if it's worth everything I would have to sacrifice to get it. The cheap and easy satisfaction has long since been achieved. All that's left is pricey and/or laborious. I need to be seriously saving up for a new daily instead of a $1600 clutch, $3000 rear end, $???? cylinder heads, and who the hell knows what else. It doesn't help that I have no space to do anything.

I would have no issue just parking this thing if I had a barn with a bunch of space to play and store, but that's looking like more and more of a pipe dream too. I don't foresee the car going anywhere. If space ends up being the only issue then I'll make or rent room. It's just the first time that I've felt this sort of way about the car while it's running and driving better than it ever has.

I did make microscopic progress last night. Despite everything I just said and my Milwaukee rotary tool still being stuck in FedEx, I've been wanting to experiment with custom accessories since before I sold the 240. I still feel like I evaded a very cool and fun project by getting rid of that car, so making this AC work is more of motivation than the actual car itself. The evaporator bump was cut off with a pneumatic cut-off tool and a sawzall. Dusty mess!
View attachment 124554

I'm still amazed that this size of automotive evaporator exists.
View attachment 124555
More hacking to accommodate the evaporator.
View attachment 124556
Since the evaporator will need to be recessed into the box an inch or two, the blend door will need to be cut which kind of sucks. I will have to make a wall on each opening slightly larger than the part that's cut off the door so that all the air is directed to the right place when the heater core passage is fully open or fully closed. I think this will be one of the most difficult parts of this system to pull off.
View attachment 124558
View attachment 124559
View attachment 124560
I'm still excited/determined as hell to make this work though. I have the evaporator at work with me because I need to take some measurements on the fittings to determine what line/hose fittings I need. I've been researching on and off about orifice tube fittings and answers are proving to be very difficult to find. It seems that all the aftermarket AC systems have a TXV built in to them, so orifice tubes and accumulators are not common part to adapt for custom use. I may need to find a factory OT system in a junkyard that uses the same line size as this evaporator, rob it's lines, and bend them to the shape I need. I can probably get some premade aluminum lines and swage a "repair" kit onto it too, but that's a little hack IMO. I'll keep searching.

Great progress.

However, I'd say you also need to focus on you. Clean up your eating, eat healthier, lift some weights, read some books, and get some sleep. Align yourself and everything will come back in order. Hope you get out of this funk!

 

[v6buicks]

Great progress.

However, I'd say you also need to focus on you. Clean up your eating, eat healthier, lift some weights, read some books, and get some sleep. Align yourself and everything will come back in order. Hope you get out of this funk!

Thanks man. I agree. My diet is absolutely a problem, and my alcohol intake is probably definitely more of a problem than I think it is. I ran out of beer, so I'm going to promise myself that I won't buy more for at least a couple weeks. Instead of nearly falling asleep in front of the TV when I get home, I'm going to go for a run. I should probably look into tires and brakes for my road bike too. My knees don't appreciate running too much anymore.

 

[Jimy Bilmo]

Thanks man. I agree. My diet is absolutely a problem, and my alcohol intake is probably more of a problem than I think it is. I ran out of beer, so I'm going to promise myself that I won't buy more for at least a couple weeks. Instead of nearly falling asleep in front of the TV when I get home, I'm going to go for a run. I should probably look into tires and brakes for my road bike too. My knees don't appreciate running too much anymore.

Boom, already a start - progress! Get after it! You got this!

 

[sktchy]

You got it man! Car will be there when you get yourself in a better place. However they are a great distraction.

 

[v6buicks]

I made some more cuts last week, and got a bit discouraged. The evaporator isn't going to fit in the slot I'm cutting as nicely as I once thought. I think we all knew that would be the case though.

Here's the problem. The core is too tall to put bolt the box halves hack together.

This isn't the end of the project. I can hack either half of the box to fit without sacrificing any screw holes or messing up any other functions. However, I'm getting really close to the "not worth it" point in terms of labor time. Even if I get this box finished to my liking, I still have no idea if this whole system is going to work right.

On the other hand, I'm a bit broke at the moment. I have nothing better to work on, and I don't have to buy anything to continue with this. I might as well keep trucking. This may be the last burst of motivation I have for this project unless I make some good progress, so I better take advantage of it now.

The issue I'll be facing after that is actually mounting the evaporator. They usually just slide into a nice pocket, and that's it. That's a lot easier for GM to do than myself though. I may have a hard time making this thing fit nicely without a lot of movement, but I have some tricks for cheating the fiberglass process a bit that may help me.

I still have no clue how to incorporate an orifice tube into the system either. I have a stash of GM orifice tubes so I'm going to go out on a limb and see if I can shove one into the evaporator inlet tube. I know it's the right size tubing, so I may get lucky. Just don't know if it will actually seat against anything or just get lost in the tube.

EDIT: I think my research on factory 4th-gen F-body AC systems has concluded. I finally figured out that GM didn't keep all that the same either. The early cars had an expansion valve bolted to the evaporator where the later cars had the orifice tube inside the evaporator. This confused the hell out of me because both of the HVAC boxed I bought are from early cars. I am now very hopeful that the orifice tube will fit into my universal evaporator because it means chopping the fitting off and likely swaging and soldering an OT "repair kit" in its place or doing some weird shit with factory lines from another car. Neither are ideas that I'm excited about.

 

[v6buicks]

Cutting to the main body is done. It's about as big of an accomplishment as graduating middle school, but hey, it's something.

I took the cut the top approach. Cutting the bottom would mean cutting the blower motor mount tabs and losing one of only three screws holding it in. That was a no go for me.

This makes the cut and repair look like no big deal, but the real issue is fitting the recirculation valve back on when there's a big bump in the way. I don't lose any screw holes though so I'm not terribly worry about it.

It's tucked in nice though!

I had a realization tonight while I was doing all this. I really don't have to go crazy with the serviceability here. If the recirculation valve has to be cut up and glued back on with RTV instead of a nice gasket, it's not going to matter. Once this thing is backing the car, I'm never going to see if it's ugly, and I'm probably not taking it out again.

There is bad news though. I'm going to have to get crafty with the orifice tube. My evaporator will not house one. My buddy said he might be able to scrounge up some lines or evaporator ends for me. Even then, I'm going to have to braze them on to my evaporator which is another new process for me.

 

[sktchy]

Brazing isn't too terrible. Basically soldering with fire. Map gas bottle with a rosebud on it and give it hell lol

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

You can find the orifice tube section from any w body and it's a nice good piece for you to be able to modify and make work for you

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

The CG and h-body units all typically will have a Bend fairly close to the orifice tube section and older units will have the threaded tube nut while newer ones will have a bolt together o-ring Style

 

[v6buicks]

Today I learned that the blend door section of the HVAC box is removable when you break some super weak plastic welds around the heater core screw holes. This made modifying the door a lot easier.

I think that's all done in terms of cuts. Tomorrow, I'm going to start drilling/cutting holes in the "delete" plate. I want to put off the mess of fixing everything I cut with fiberglass as long as I can.

 

[v6buicks]

My teacher buddy was unable to come up with any orifice tube fittings or evaporators. I might have to do my own poking around a junkyard unless somebody here has a parts car they can hack up for me.

Edit: Turbocharged400sbc is this what the line is supposed to look like? I'm going to ask the facebookers.