🔧 BUILD LAME Turbo V6 Camaro

[10sec]

Using a narrowband is risky, but if you have a wideband you know what the MV the o2 reads in comparison to the wideband AFR. For example in my stock+turbo car the NB's read about 840-850 for a perfect 11.5-12.0AFR on my wideband. My other car read about 910-920 for the same AFR on the wideband. So Since I knew what the NB read I could use it as a reference to the wideband. Almost like you can reference injector duty cycle to AFR to see if you're running out of fuel pump or injector pulse to AFR for the same reason. It's nice to have something to compare to just to make sure.

 

[GTPpower]

You can't rely on that though. The narrowband is neither accurate or consistent once it's not at lambda. 800mv could be 11.8 one run and 12.8 the next.

The narrowbands will be a bit more accurate than your wideband at lambda, but it's way slower to tune that way because you have to drive around while the trims learn. For the last probably 12 years, I've been tuning it open loop because it's so much faster and easier. Instead of burning through a tank of fuel dialing it in, with the wideband I can dial the fueling in within about 20 minutes.


You could switch the stoich to 9.8 just for tuning. Some of the lower cells you see might be goofy, but you will have to learn to discard that info.

 

[v6buicks]

I'm kinda over this software and tuning non-sense. I know I need to develop some patience for it, but it's not going to come easy. Luckily, I brought home a pretty car I can stare at when my mood turns south.

 

[GTPpower]

What's the biggest problem you're having with it?

 

[v6buicks]

What's the biggest problem you're having with it?

I understand the idea behind this MAF tuning, but I don't understand how I'm supposed to execute it. Having this stupid AFR gauge is not making it easier. I feel like I'm close, but I get a lot of conflicting info. Plus there's a lot of ways to skin the cat. Two people might both be right, and I won't know any different. The HP Tuners forum is effectively worthless. I THINK I'm typing out some pretty well thought questions with pictures, but never get a response. Meanwhile, newbie makes a new thread saying "wb don't work. how to work" and gets all kinds of attention. Annoying, but whatever.

Anyway, I have a lot to learn and it's overwhelming even when I try to break it down into little steps.

 

[10sec]

There are two ways to skin a cat. I personally don't agree with GTPpower and how he goes about this. I have a much more simple way I did it when I tuned like 60+ cars for locals back in the day. HOWEVER, I have been out of the game for about 8yrs so he knows a lot about the current software that wasn't available when I was doing it. So it's hard for me to argue with him because he's probably right and you can't argue that he knows what he's talking about. You two almost need to have a phone call meeting where he can talk you through it. IDK if he's up to it or you either, but I bet a lot of stuff can be cleared up with a live chat and I really don't think it would take all that long. I feel like you understand a lot more than a newbie should, you just need to connect a few dots to get it.

 

[SleeperLS]

Don't get too discouraged. It took me a while to get used to HPT when I was tinkering with my monte carlo back in the day. A lot of frustration, but when you finally get the hang of it you will feel a sense of accomplishment. Keep at it.

 

[TurboTPI]

I do think a wide band calibrated for gas afr would make things easier. But i understand not wanting to go and buy another one, when the one you have is working. haha

 

[v6buicks]

Thanks for the encouragement guys. I may sound like I'm ready to quit or take a break, but I'm being a bit dramatic. lol I just haven't decided which way to go yet. My impatience and wallet say that it would be nice to work with what I have, but I'm scared to fat-finger something. That would also be a shitty way to blow up a car. My brain says that I'm going to get rid of this wideband regardless because I'm not happy with the way it looks. I got my other project home, so I should probably focus on that for a while until I can afford to spend big money on gauges and an AFC.

Is that rational? I think T TurboTPI gets it. By the way, I know you blew up your trans, but what's your tuning process?

 

[TurboTPI]

I command open loop in the special functions in the scanner then I have a histogram for afr error between my wide band and ecm commanded afr VS maf. Works very well and is idiot proof. But you need a Gas AFR wide band gauge. My buddy went to a couple HPtuner focused tuning classes taught by some well known tuner. He helped me get the hang of it

 

[bs009]

Yeah definitely a lot of ways to go about it. It sounds like I kind of do the same thing TurboTPI does but I don't bother switching to open loop. There's an excel spreadhseet in BillBoost's dropbox called "MAF worksheet-damojo2003" that I have been using to scale my MAF.
It basically finds the error in the MAF based on the measured AFR from the wideband and gives you some suggestions on where your MAF needs some tweaking.
Makes MAF tuning a breeze!

tuning

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It won't play nicely with the E85 wideband scale. There's gotta be an easy way to convert the wideband reading to be the same as a gas scale though unless it measures the oxygen differently somehow.
I might need to do some digging there.

Love the rear ends on those G-body Regal's though! Definitely my favorite of all of the g-body's haha!

 

[GTPpower]

^^that is basically what the Russ k write-up is saying to do.

I would buy a new wideband. They are dirt cheap, and your afr error will be accurate.

 

[GTPpower]

Using the wideband to tune cruise without switching to open loop doesn't work though. If you do that, your narrowband will correct the fueling and your maf error will be basically 0%.

 

[v6buicks]

Looks like I just needed to say the magic words! ? New wideband it is.

I command open loop in the special functions in the scanner then I have a histogram for afr error between my wide band and ecm commanded afr VS maf. Works very well and is idiot proof. But you need a Gas AFR wide band gauge. My buddy went to a couple HPtuner focused tuning classes taught by some well known tuner. He helped me get the hang of it

So do you zero out all those other tables like I did or is commanding open loop all I need to do?

 

[TurboTPI]

I dont zero any tables, but I do reset fuel trims after i force open loop thru the scanner, at least thats all i do and it has worked fine for me. If you dont reset the fuel trims, it will still use them in open loop and skew the maf table

 

[v6buicks]

I dont zero any tables, but I do reset fuel trims after i force open loop thru the scanner, at least thats all i do and it has worked fine for me.

? I like the sound of that.

 

[v6buicks]

I got sloppy and made a mistake in the tune. I had changed the stoich to 9.6:1 and forgot to change it back. It ran like poop and maxed LTFTs at -25. I don't entirely know what to make of that because my base ARF vs ECT was still set to 11.5:1. Was the trim screwed up because of that? Was it because I tried to change stoich and narrowbands are unable to recognize anything but stock stoich? I understand that lambda is lambda with any fuel and that's what all O2s recognize, but since tuning is new to me, I don't really know what I'm changing in the software.

Instead of experimenting and trying to figure THAT out on my own, I decided to just change stoich back to 14.7 and go for a pleasure cruise. I wish I could say it made me feel better. I definitely need that AFC and some training. I get that this tuning stuff isn't going to make sense overnight, but something just isn't clicking. It doesn't help that all the information for HP revolves around LS stuff.

 

[GTPpower]

You have to change all the tables. Since you're getting a new wideband, I wouldn't mess with it, so you don't forget to change one and blow the engine up.

 

[v6buicks]

You have to change all the tables. Since you're getting a new wideband, I wouldn't mess with it, so you don't forget to change one and blow the engine up.

Hmm I see. Well either way I'm leaving it alone for now. The wideband is listed for sale on Facebook. $180 if anybody is interested.

 

[v6buicks]

I finally got my 30* elbow in the mail yesterday, so I cut up a pipe and proved the concept. I'm actually not sure if I like it! Being only a 3" pipe looks kinda cheesy to me. Maybe I need to shorten it up a bit? It might also be how high the filter sticks up. Once I find a way to reroute the rad hose and lower the pipe down I think it would look a lot nicer. I'm not drilling an IAT hole in this one so it's all going to have to wait anyway.

 

[v6buicks]

I am about to pull the trigger on the AFC and and an AEM X-series wideband (30-0300). Any last objections? I like that the X-series has a matching boost gauge and auto controller. I think that would be really cool to have down the road. Plus, it's a HPT predefined sensor that will display gas AFR and Lambda.

 

[GTPpower]

Should be good to go!

 

[v6buicks]

Thanks! I bought them. ? Hopefully tuning begins to get a little easier from here.

I'm gonna be honest with you all. I had a little bit of garage therapy today and it had nothing to do with the Camaro. I want that car to be dialed in so bad, but I started doing dumb ADD crap like looking for a custom radiator, figuring out where I want my IAT, and where my hoses are going to be plumbed. Then smart me said "hold up. I have uninstalled parts in the garage already."

To make a long story short, those parts were for the Buick. The car runs and drives so much better, and even better news is that the R-134a conversion I did last summer held up through the winter. To say that I'm hooked on that car now would be an understatement. I think it needs a thread. ? It might take me awhile to cover all that's happened over the last four years though.

 

[Mattstrike]

FWI that shit. Visible air filters went out of style in the 50's along with lace pattern girls undergarments.

 

[v6buicks]

FWI that shit. Visible air filters went out of style in the 50's along with lace pattern girls undergarments.

You aren't wrong. I realize that to do it the way I want is going to take a lot more work than I hoped anyway. I might as well hack the body a little to stick the tube down there.