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Old 10-24-2016, 07:25 AM   #1
 
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Default 3800 - Ford GT blower swap


totally passable as stock

I posted a little about this already in one of Zeph's nutty threads but since he only plays with Benz's now I thought I better make my own. I'll update as I move along with the project
Things done:
*zzp/intense style pulley hub made and installed
*temporary 78mm northstar throttle body inlet designed and made
*mostly designed final dual throttle body setup
*got adapter material
Things to do:
*buy IC core - maybe this week
*actually make the adapter - soon
*all peripherals - IAC, PCV valve, etc.
*figure out how to run two maf sensors or alternate solution for tuning with dual tb's
*make beltwrap bar and probably a hardcore tensioner setup later on
*hack up tensioner assembly to relocate alternator
*put towels on the seats and hire somebody full time to clean out all the panties that accumulate in the car once this is done

So I got some motivation and threw the needed parts on the mockup motor to get the belt alignment double checked and started sketching. Thanks to James I had mappings for a gen3 m90, my fgt blower, and a wbs ic which all helped me to make a good drawing after some fussing around trying to get the drawings lined up and whatnot to build off of.

I purchased material.

$240 worth of aluminum - these are two 1.25" thick roughly 18" diameter plates of precision cast (aka mic-6) 6061 - very nice flat, sound material

I priced out an intercooler cartridge from BIC. Their online custom core ordering catalog is very good.

That's my quick blueprint to send to BIC. I'm guessing based off of vendor testimonys that this isn't going to be better than the typical heater core used in terms of charge cooling under normal (m90) conditions but I'll be able to handle more extremes being a single pass and flowing some more. It's slightly wider and thicker - about the same length or maybe shorter by a little bit

Some of my drawings


These are mainly what I'll be using to make the plates - they represent pretty much exactly what each side looks like.
Theres nothing too wild going on but the reason the top of the lower plate looks so busy is that surface will have the channels machined for a viton o-ring to seal the plates to eachother. O-rings will also seal up around the coolant tubes and kind of suspend the core in the case somewhat. I could have just sealed this up with rtv just like zzp/wbs does but that would kind of suck because since my cooler is an adapter as well with two discrete bolt patterns that conflict in a couple spots I have to isolate them to their respective layers if that makes any sense and as a result, I have to install/uninstall the core layer by layer which means having it glued together with rtv would be really inconvenient if I have to take it back off the motor. This way I only need to dap a little tiny bit of rtv in the spots where there's breaks in the orings.


The bolt patterns and stuff laid together





I roughly sketched the profiles in solidworks just to make sure my mental picture matches reality haha
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Old 10-24-2016, 07:32 AM   #2
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good god.
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Old 10-24-2016, 07:41 AM   #3
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This is awesome!
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Old 10-24-2016, 07:54 AM   #4
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3800>all other technology ever
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Old 10-24-2016, 07:56 AM   #5
 
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Oh yeah check yo email
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Old 10-24-2016, 07:59 AM   #6
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I got it, still think yer over compensating
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Old 10-24-2016, 08:00 AM   #7
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Well god damn.
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Old 10-24-2016, 12:32 PM   #8
 
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I posted a little about this already in one of Zeph's nutty threads but since he only plays with Benz's now I thought I better make my own. I'll update as I
As if I didn't just steal a bunch of my Benz parts to triplecharge a Bonneville one thread down from this. Lol.
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Old 10-24-2016, 12:36 PM   #9
 
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Sorry, who is BIC? Is this Bell intercoolers? I used them for my current adapter. I am doubtful it cools better, or even as well as a heater core, but like you, I was able to go much larger and actually have it be a structural part of the adapter plate. Quality pieces for sure.
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Old 10-24-2016, 02:45 PM   #10
 
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The order form had some fields for boost & hp and stuff like that which I filled out with reasonable guesses and the guy told me that my size will support it so I believe itll be ok and tough enough. I'm not so confident the heater core version is totally up for it. I don't want to put all my luck beans in hoping the core doesn't fail. Haha
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Old 10-24-2016, 04:10 PM   #11
 
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Looks nice... just some tid bits maybe ... since my turd is pretty much
close to what you are doing in a sense with a twin screw..

The whipple turd uses a 3" custom made core and to be honest, its probably not enough.
Couldn't tell from the drawing how tall it was.. (didnt look at it long)

Outlet temps are closing in on 400* pre IC on a 3" pulley in the low 20 psi range.

I'd go big as you can wedge under there.... start with big pulley and work down.

I am gonna assume the whipple turd engine is overly built due to fact
that even after the IC, temps are much higher than a turbo cars post IC temps.

I couldn't see this keeping together long if it was on e85... luckly it is.

Couple the high heat + high boost = boom if you are not ready for it.

Belt slip will be an issue... even with a 10 rib belt, mac truck tensioner and such on
a 3" pulley, I still get slip issues up top.
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Old 10-24-2016, 04:17 PM   #12
 
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Under blower intercooling is always going to be a compromise. That's why I have been so crazy focused on water temps/capacity of my system. I need a huge delta T to make up for the tiny core. And I'm not even trying to make big boost with mine up top, the turbo takes care of that.
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Old 10-24-2016, 04:38 PM   #13
 
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Under blower intercooling is always going to be a compromise. That's why I have been so crazy focused on water temps/capacity of my system. I need a huge delta T to make up for the tiny core. And I'm not even trying to make big boost with mine up top, the turbo takes care of that.
Problem I see, is it gets the temps hot with hardly getting on the pedal.
Hopefully if a huge pulley is ran, the effects are dramatic.

I can see a 150+ degree jump pre IC after jumping into single digit boost levels...
Go more into it... its 200+ jump and so on...

Just thought I'd throw it out there that the twin screw temps are stupid high
compared to what we are use to it seems, at least compared to turbo setups.
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Old 10-24-2016, 04:51 PM   #14
 
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What IC pump are you using? Core size is irrelevant if you can't pump enough coolant through it to remove the heat.
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Old 10-24-2016, 04:59 PM   #15
 
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What IC pump are you using? Core size is irrelevant if you can't pump enough coolant through it to remove the heat.
Some big Meziere pump... exact model not sure.. but I am sure PRJ
did some hunting to find the "perfect" pump for the job.
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Old 10-24-2016, 05:17 PM   #16
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I kept trying to convince him to go turbo but he doesn't want to blow up Transmissions left and right...
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Old 10-24-2016, 05:21 PM   #17
 
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The mezieres flow great through HUGE piping. Mine is 1.25" on the meziere but I'm ditching that setup for a stewart EMP WP29 that will actually handle some pressure head. The flow rate on those 55gpm Mezieres goes to literallyy nothing with just 7psi of pressure.
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Old 10-24-2016, 06:17 PM   #18
 
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One thing at a time I guess. I know a whipple boost stacking the shit out of this little motor is gonna mean lots of heat no matter what but I'm more interested in how bad of post ic you see. I started to watch the trends since I added a post ic sensor to my current setup and it'll suddenly get hot with fairly light throttle inputs and then cool back down with more throttle and airflow. I'll have to remember to gather some more reference data before changing. I like to admire the problems before I fix them
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Old 10-24-2016, 06:35 PM   #19
 
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I'd see about making the roush core work for your set up, works pretty good from what I've seen I'm normally about 30* above ambient on my outlet temps unless I'm sitting in traffic, it will heat up at wot in warmer weather but the temps slowly climb back down
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Old 10-24-2016, 06:36 PM   #20
 
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This is what I'm talking about 07-14 Shelby GT500 and 11-15 Mustang GT 5.0L TVS -
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Old 10-24-2016, 06:36 PM   #21
 
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what the hell is this insanity
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Old 10-24-2016, 06:39 PM   #22
 
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I'd see about making the roush core work for your set up, works pretty good from what I've seen I'm normally about 30* above ambient on my outlet temps unless I'm sitting in traffic, it will heat up at wot in warmer weather but the temps slowly climb back down
Those are huge though. Like 4.5" thick or something. That's what I built my original adapter out of, that necessitated the 3" cradle spacers to clear the hood, lol.
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Old 10-24-2016, 06:46 PM   #23
 
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How did it work?
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Old 10-24-2016, 06:51 PM   #24
 
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How did it work?
I didn't have a lower intake IAT at the time. And when I went WOT the SC torqued the upper plate loose creating a massive boost leak. So I don't know. I suspect it would have worked flipping great, but it was super impractical to try and squeeze under a SC in these cars. The bottom of mine was basically a half inch off the floor of my lower intake and the cradle was spaced, and it still rubbed the hood a bit (hood latch and mounts shimmed) alternator/tensioner bracket clearanced to the max, etc.
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Old 10-24-2016, 07:20 PM   #25
 
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My gut tells me the belt is gonna be an issue sooner than the heat gets really out of control. My mind is going in the direction of an aux tensioner that has a boost actuator to add tension through an arm. Then when the solution takes off cause it works so well it affectively makes turbochargers obsolete I'll market it as the chuck Norris arm and get rich biiitch
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