The Life and Times of a Tesla Owner

Mike K

TCG Elite Member
Apr 11, 2008
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its odd the way the coolant pumps are plumbed, one feeds the other but maybe just as a backup?

They run concurrently and one will shut off while the other stays on. I'm sure there's an algorithm but I suspect being a backup isn't the purpose of multiple pumps. Instead I think it's to keep excessive load off of any given pump. So instead of the system relying on one pump, it's alternating load between three of four to get the most life out of all of them.

shit if the ac has to work for the cooling...then that ac compressor is drastically undersized even for a freon to coolant HE much less the cabin as well....

What you don't see is that underneath the power steering motor is a small heat exchanger attached to the ac compressor that the battery coolant is routed through. There are very specific circumstances where the AC system is cooling the battery. One is to cool the pack during supercharging. This is the most common reason the AC will cool the battery coolant. Other than that it generally doesn't happen unless you're doing a lot of standing still on a relatively hot day and when it does that it pops up with a red warning message that tells you interior cooling is reduced because AC is being used for the battery.

The battery does a really good job of keeping cool with the standard heat exchanger for the battery system though. To give you an example of how well it does, before I fixed the ac compressor I was driving in a lot of traffic on a particularly hot November day in the salvage car. I think it was about 90 out. While in traffic I got the "reduced interior cooling; ac being used to cool drivetrain" warning. I panicked. I had just learned literally 10 minutes ago that the AC system sometimes cools the battery and boom, here I'm getting this message. Despite the temperature, about 5 minutes of driving cooled it back down to the point where the message went away. But the AC wasn't working. So that's just air over the front mount radiator that did that. If the AC actually had cooled it I suspect it would have been on for all of 30 seconds. In other words, the AC system almost never cools the drivetrain under normal driving.

im going to guess the only reason the ac is part of the batt/motor cooling system is that it uses the same cooling fans at the forward condensor and the air to water exchanger.

It doesn't. There's no fan on the battery/ motor radiator. Or I should say there was none on the salvage car. There are two AC condensers, one behind each fog light, about a foot square. They each have fans on them.

in that case even your air temp being unplugged on the other car would have probably not kept the battery system from commanding the HE fans on.

See that makes no sense to me. That's a poorly designed system because if the battery is commanding increased cooling that should override whatever outdoor temp info the car is getting that would prevent the compressor from coming on. What further concerns me is the lack of any kind of warning. I mean surely the car knew the compressor wasn't turning on but it simply failed to notice that this was an issue.


What's really odd to me is that the louvers in front of the AC condensers would open. The area to the left of the foglight below is louvers. For aerodynamics this is closed off until the AC comes on at which point the louvers open to provide airflow over the AC condensers. So before I fixed the AC the louvers would pop open as if to suggest the AC was being commanded to turn on but then would close about 10 seconds later.

2013-tesla-model%20s-fog-lamp_8319_133_480x360.jpg
 

Turbocharged400sbc

3800 & 4T80E > ALL
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Jun 16, 2007
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hangover park IL
its probably a huge portion of the "limp home" settings/driveline managment. they gotta figure on making it as damn near idiot proof as it gets. i would bet the charger datalink would limit charging if a battery water to AC fault occurred during a supercharge cycle.

how long till you drive it over so i can put my grubby mitts up 'er shirt?
 

Mike K

TCG Elite Member
Apr 11, 2008
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its probably a huge portion of the "limp home" settings/driveline managment. they gotta figure on making it as damn near idiot proof as it gets. i would bet the charger datalink would limit charging if a battery water to AC fault occurred during a supercharge cycle.

how long till you drive it over so i can put my grubby mitts up 'er shirt?

Well this is part of the reason Tesla turns off supercharging for salvage cars. They don't want them melting down at the supercharger station. The car will through up cooling warnings and shut down charging if there are any issues though. At least as far as I know it does.
 

Mike K

TCG Elite Member
Apr 11, 2008
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Ah, you're referring to the rental car I had last month. This one has the $2500 Ultra High Fidelity system which is surprisingly good. Definitely a notch above the Harmon Kardon systems in the BMWs but not quite at Bang & Olufsen level. Still, that I can even compare it to the B&O system is awesome. I have no complaints other than wishing it had more adjustment than bass, treble and midrange.
 

cacicgtp7

Some Military Dude
Nov 9, 2008
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Here's an edmunds test but it was based on gas at $4.09 a gallon.


Right now gas on avg is $2.00. So the numbers (just for today's purposes) are closer to:

Tesla: $1,226.00 = 5.3 cents per mile
BMW: $2,421.00 = 10.5 cents per mile

Based on 23,000 miles of use and their test is on a car that's avg 19 mpg. Get a car with better MPG's w/ cheap gas and it's negligible $$$ wise.



http://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-...tesla-model-s-cost-of-gas-vs-electricity.html
 

jason05gt

TCG Elite Member
Jan 17, 2007
15,307
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Naperville
I wonder how this climate "pact" is going to influence electricity. Coal is still our largest source of power and I know that environmentalists want to install emissions control devices which cost a lot of money. I'm figuring that electrical rates are going to increase quite a bit. Might have a big influence on electric cars until renewable energy takes off.
 

Mike K

TCG Elite Member
Apr 11, 2008
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Are you going to try and calculate how much money you spend per month charging it? It's obviously a lot less than gas but I'm very curious as to the real life energy draw from this car.

I don't pay for electricity but it's about 14 cents per kwh here so going by Tesla's calculator I'm paying about $2.08 per my average usage of 45 miles worth of charge per day.

The other thing to take into account is free charging. Many places out here have free level 2 chargers. My gym has a row of free level 2 chargers. There are also supercharger stations sprinkled around the area. One will be open any day now. The service center is just waiting for the city to come in and flip the switch. And that's all free obviously.

Besides actually powering the car/motor, where is the most of the power distributed to? Electronic displays and other do-dads?

The heater is your number one draw which is surprising to me because I would have thought the AC would have been. Stuff like the headlights, radio, etc have almost no draw.
 

Mike K

TCG Elite Member
Apr 11, 2008
13,214
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Now for today's installment

Buy a Warm Climate Car

In shopping for used Teslas you really need to change your perception of what it means to buy a used car. If I'm buying a standard car my primary concern is mileage on the drivetrain. In theory the engine components have a finite life as do the transmission internals. Statistically the higher the mileage the more likely something is to fail, and then something else and then something else. When there are thousands of potential failure points you can fix a bunch of them and still have a bunch ready to break. And so people look for lower mileage cars.

With an all electric car you approach that a little differently. Since the powertrain is exponentially less complex, your primary concern is the battery.

What you really care about is battery cycles. A cycle is a complete charge and complete usage of that charge. It doesn't have to be all at once. It can be over the course of several days with you charging in between. Wikipedia does a better job of explaining it than me:

Apple Inc. clarifies that a charge cycle means using all the battery's capacity, but not necessarily by full charge and discharge; e.g., using half the charge of a fully charged battery, charging it, and then using the same amount of charge again count as a single charge cycle.

But you can't measure battery cycles on the Tesla, at least not as far as I know. So you have to take some things into consideration. Things like, is the heat on in this car all the time? Was this car driven aggressively? Cars in cold climates like the midwest get considerably worse mileage in cold weather due to battery/ cabin heating and in the summer they tend to use the air conditioning more due to humidity. So a car with 265 miles of rated range may only get say 170 miles from that charge whereas a car in a more temperate climate might get 210 miles from that same charge. Likewise with abuse. A car that's driven hard is going to get considerably fewer miles out of the same charge cycle.

For reasons like this you could theoretically have a car with 50,000 miles on it and say 217 battery cycles and another car that came from a more extreme climate that only has 40,000 miles on it but the same 217 battery cycles.

The good news is that so far battery degradation isn't really a thing. People are seeing really low capacity drops with age/ use and Tesla accomplishes this by keeping the battery pack heated and cooled. So people aren't really talking about things like this yet but I suspect in the future they will. I suspect that eventually the single most important metric for a used electric car is going to be cycle count.

The bottom line is that more than ever, a California car is probably the best car to buy, just not for the normal reasons.
 

Turk

Lt. Ron "Slider" Kerner
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Jan 21, 2008
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I don't pay for electricity but it's about 14 cents per kwh here so going by Tesla's calculator I'm paying about $2.08 per my average usage of 45 miles worth of charge per day.

The other thing to take into account is free charging. Many places out here have free level 2 chargers. My gym has a row of free level 2 chargers. There are also supercharger stations sprinkled around the area. One will be open any day now. The service center is just waiting for the city to come in and flip the switch. And that's all free obviously.



The heater is your number one draw which is surprising to me because I would have thought the AC would have been. Stuff like the headlights, radio, etc have almost no draw.

Cool, thanks for the info. My work has a free charging station, I always figured that if I ever got one, I'd never charge it at home, just at work. I'll let them pay for it.
 

EmersonHart13

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Jul 18, 2007
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Cool, thanks for the info. My work has a free charging station, I always figured that if I ever got one, I'd never charge it at home, just at work. I'll let them pay for it.

That is what my buddy does, or the supercharger if he needs an extra boost... I think he only charges at home if he is getting ready for a "max range" type trip.
 

Mike K

TCG Elite Member
Apr 11, 2008
13,214
2,586
Here's an edmunds test but it was based on gas at $4.09 a gallon.


Right now gas on avg is $2.00. So the numbers (just for today's purposes) are closer to:

Tesla: $1,226.00 = 5.3 cents per mile
BMW: $2,421.00 = 10.5 cents per mile

Based on 23,000 miles of use and their test is on a car that's avg 19 mpg. Get a car with better MPG's w/ cheap gas and it's negligible $$$ wise.



Cost of Gas vs. Electricity - 2013 Tesla Model S Long-Term Road Test

You have to keep in mind that the reason they're putting it up against a BMW is because not too many people are cross shopping a Tesla and a Prius. So yes, while you can just go out and get a Prius - which would very likely beat the Model S in terms of cost of ownership - nobody looking at a Prius is also looking at a Tesla.

So you have to compare it against similar cars like the 5 series, the A6, A8, etc. It's kind of odd in that I consider it a 5 series replacement but many (maybe most) people that are driving it would likely otherwise be driving a flagship car like the 7 series or an A8. Compared to those the contrast is much more drastic.

My alternative purchase was going to be another 2011+ 535. Even in that car my average daily drive would be $6.30 in premium fuel and we're at our lowest gas prices in how long? That's probably not going to be for long. So the Tesla is at one third of that at $2.08, much of which you can get for free from various sources. It's even worse with my wife's Infiniti that I've been driving for a couple months. $9.00 per day in gas is my average usage.

Now would I recommend someone go out and buy a car that's in many cases $20,000 more than what they otherwise would have bought just for the savings in gas? Probably not.
 

Mike K

TCG Elite Member
Apr 11, 2008
13,214
2,586
Cool, thanks for the info. My work has a free charging station, I always figured that if I ever got one, I'd never charge it at home, just at work. I'll let them pay for it.

For optimal cheapness without sacrificing too much comfort, I'd rock a Ford Fusion Energi and plug in at work. The Titanium models have nice interiors and when the car is in all electric mode it's deceptively smooth.

But yes, having places to plug in is huge.
 
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