The all-electric NIO EP9 is the fastest production car to ever lap The Ring

[Chet Donnelly]

yes, they went from boring eco-boxes to something sexy. they let designers and engineers have pretty free reign instead of bean counters, and they executed on the package well. and it is a great product, i don't disagree. but that doesn't make it a "true engineering marvel." your fap to metric is drag racing supercars, but there is enough talent on this board to come together and build an electric car that could do the same. is it an engineering marvel if a few yahoos can get together and do this? i'd say a true engineering marvel is one you can give a handful of yahoos infinity years to do and they could never do it.



as i stated, electric cars are over 100 years old. and you can read in popular mechanics from 1910 about the batteries that are going to bring them to the masses just being around the corner. nothing has changed even though you are a tesla fanboy. ICE is not dead, it's not going to be dead either. hybrids are the future. with some EV for niche cases, like city cars, or toys for rich people. joe 6 pack in the burbs is likely going to have a hybrid though.

You said its been around for 100 years, and is easy to do, but no one else has been able to come even close to the success that Tesla has delivered.
The Model S has been out for how many years now? No other car even close yet! Additionally you're ignoring things like autopilot. Tesla revolutionized a true auto pilot in a car!

The neck snapping speed of Tesla's is something worth mentioning. All these "hyper cars" and "drag cars" come out and still cannot out accelerate a Tesla. Again, if it was so easy, why can't anyone beat them?

 

[Gone_2022]

yes, they went from boring eco-boxes to something sexy. they let designers and engineers have pretty free reign instead of bean counters, and they executed on the package well. and it is a great product, i don't disagree. but that doesn't make it a "true engineering marvel." your fap to metric is drag racing supercars, but there is enough talent on this board to come together and build an electric car that could do the same. is it an engineering marvel if a few yahoos can get together and do this? i'd say a true engineering marvel is one you can give a handful of yahoos infinity years to do and they could never do it.







as i stated, electric cars are over 100 years old. and you can read in popular mechanics from 1910 about the batteries that are going to bring them to the masses just being around the corner. nothing has changed even though you are a tesla fanboy. ICE is not dead, it's not going to be dead either. hybrids are the future. with some EV for niche cases, like city cars, or toys for rich people. joe 6 pack in the burbs is likely going to have a hybrid though.

I believe you will start to see the change over a lot more rapidly than way back then though. I mean eventually the oil and fossil fuels will run out or become way to expensive to harvest. That is just a scientific fact.

The hybrids will be the transition point and eventually it will be all electric, all hydrogen, etc whatever the future holds.

 

[Gone_2022]

you can get 300 miles worth of range - if you don't use the a/c, or the heat, the sun's not beating down on your car for days, you made sure to charge it, you don't go smashing and using that acceleration all the time, and you have a fuckton of money to spend so you can (mostly) buy your way out of having to live life around charging your car. yeah, why doesn't everyone have one?

Heat is the biggest drain. I admit that and I usually see about a 10-15 mile drop if i blast it.

A/c I have not seen a dramatic drain or loss. And in regards to heat(outside heat) my range has only increased daily this week with this sudden heat wave. Currently the car sits at work using 41 miles this charge and I have another 12 sitting on the dash to go and 2.5 kw remaining.

Battery's like heat to a certain point, the sweet spot is where we are at now 70s-80s.

 

[Gone_2022]

You said its been around for 100 years, and is easy to do, but no one else has been able to come even close to the success that Tesla has delivered.

The Model S has been out for how many years now? No other car even close yet! Additionally you're ignoring things like autopilot. Tesla revolutionized a true auto pilot in a car!



The neck snapping speed of Tesla's is something worth mentioning. All these "hyper cars" and "drag cars" come out and still cannot out accelerate a Tesla. Again, if it was so easy, why can't anyone beat them?

There have been some pioneer ones before Tesla. Just slightly before our time.

The Chevy EV1 was a huge success and the owners loved them. Well Chevy then took them all back and crushed them.

You should watch the documentary on Netflix "who killed the electric car"

 

[95SC]

Because they don't have range. How many laps can this car do before needing a charge? How long does it take to charge?

Non , they overheat very quick when push hard . Puts the car into limp mode , P85 went into limp mode after 50 seconds

The other issue is , there is no supercharger stations at the track. even if the car didn't have limp mode issues , you're probably good for around 20 laps before the batteries are dead . you need a trailer to run Tesla at the track . charge it fullully at home , trail it to the track , make bunch of laps until the battery is dead then put it back on the trailer


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfZLGIs0H14

 

[2QuikTA]

Tesla put it into a refined package and made it reliable when no one else could. The Model S is without a doubt the most revolutionary vehicle to be presented in the last 50 years.

Maybe you're forgetting a certain car that came out in 2003.....

 

[sickmint79]

You said its been around for 100 years, and is easy to do, but no one else has been able to come even close to the success that Tesla has delivered.

because it has. go look at electric car history. and you are correct that tesla has done well, but because they targeted a different market. they didn't do eco-niche cars, they did luxury cars on a luxury priced drivetrain. the formula that works when your drivetrain is fuck all expensive. this is a wise marketing and strategy decision. is it a "true engineering marvel" though?

here is a vid of an electric miata beating a tesla, in your favorite, a drag race.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQkdMw4TVjY

it's a bunch of batteries and some forklift motors. groundbreaking engineering marvel too?

The Model S has been out for how many years now? No other car even close yet! Additionally you're ignoring things like autopilot. Tesla revolutionized a true auto pilot in a car!

you are ignoring that others have been working on autopilot and have good systems too. and ignoring that nobody's is exactly ready for prime time. to musk's credit he has tried to make this clear to his naive drivers, who still manage to find stupid ways to get themselves in trouble.

The neck snapping speed of Tesla's is something worth mentioning. All these "hyper cars" and "drag cars" come out and still cannot out accelerate a Tesla. Again, if it was so easy, why can't anyone beat them?

you act as if you haven't mentioned it before, yet you keep harping on it. you seem to ignore that these other cars... can turn (try it some time, it's fun i assure you!) and they can also drive all day long. not 10 minutes hard then overheat then need 60 to charge and drive again.

what do you mean - anyone can beat them, there are 2 in this thread. i just posted a miata you could make yourself. the car this thread is about blows any tesla out of the water performance wise - and it's even made by the chinese!

tesla in reality makes a good full EV car for the luxury market. is it a 'true engineering marvel'? not by my nerd standards.

it remains to be seen whether they can make a competitive full EV car for the middle class.

to think that they and a full EV platform are just obvious winners and solutions and everyone on this board will be driving one in 5 or 10 years is a fantasy, imho.

 

[sickmint79]

I believe you will start to see the change over a lot more rapidly than way back then though. I mean eventually the oil and fossil fuels will run out or become way to expensive to harvest. That is just a scientific fact.

The hybrids will be the transition point and eventually it will be all electric, all hydrogen, etc whatever the future holds.

i expected peak cheap oil by now, but what we really have today... is pretty cheap oil still. in any case i don't disagree, but i think the tipping point will simply be in self driving cars and you not needing to own one at all. particularly in a city. full EV is a good niche for a city, but not owning a car is even better. charge times are the biggest problem, but you can hide them by having more cars.

ie. go to k1 racing, while your line of karts is racing, the next set of karts is charging. you wouldn't need nearly as many karts to keep things running if you had gas. but as long as you have enough karts to always supply 1 charged when 1 is demanded, you're all good. so if chicago has a fleet of 100 cars and 50 are in the depot while 50 are demanded on spot to self-drive someone somewhere, then that's a real big winner which kills uber and justifies some of this insane tesla market cap.

 

[sickmint79]

Heat is the biggest drain. I admit that and I usually see about a 10-15 mile drop if i blast it.

A/c I have not seen a dramatic drain or loss. And in regards to heat(outside heat) my range has only increased daily this week with this sudden heat wave. Currently the car sits at work using 41 miles this charge and I have another 12 sitting on the dash to go and 2.5 kw remaining.

Battery's like heat to a certain point, the sweet spot is where we are at now 70s-80s.

i wouldn't figure chicago heat would be too bad for the batteries. i'm thinking leave your car outside a few days in phoenix during the summer and your battery has leaked a fair amount though.

There have been some pioneer ones before Tesla. Just slightly before our time.

The Chevy EV1 was a huge success and the owners loved them. Well Chevy then took them all back and crushed them.

You should watch the documentary on Netflix "who killed the electric car"

i enjoyed this documentary although i think in the end it's really just economics that killed the electric car.

this also reminds me how much i like electric motorcycles and harley davidson's recent announcement though, and i'm highly considering buying some stock today for a long hold.

Non , they overheat very quick when push hard . Puts the car into limp mode , P85 went into limp mode after 50 seconds

The other issue is , there is no supercharger stations at the track. even if the car didn't have limp mode issues , you're probably good for around 20 laps before the batteries are dead . you need a trailer to run Tesla at the track . charge it fullully at home , trail it to the track , make bunch of laps until the battery is dead then put it back on the trailer


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfZLGIs0H14

i've seen a tesla at autobahn and an i8 as well. iirc each was going every other session if that. 2 charge stations at autobahn iirc. obviously not every track will be like this as autobahn is a country club too.

 

[Chet Donnelly]

Maybe you're forgetting a certain car that came out in 2003.....

This guy gets it

 

[Chet Donnelly]

because it has. go look at electric car history. and you are correct that tesla has done well, but because they targeted a different market. they didn't do eco-niche cars, they did luxury cars on a luxury priced drivetrain. the formula that works when your drivetrain is fuck all expensive. this is a wise marketing and strategy decision. is it a "true engineering marvel" though?

here is a vid of an electric miata beating a tesla, in your favorite, a drag race.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQkdMw4TVjY

it's a bunch of batteries and some forklift motors. groundbreaking engineering marvel too?



you are ignoring that others have been working on autopilot and have good systems too. and ignoring that nobody's is exactly ready for prime time. to musk's credit he has tried to make this clear to his naive drivers, who still manage to find stupid ways to get themselves in trouble.



you act as if you haven't mentioned it before, yet you keep harping on it. you seem to ignore that these other cars... can turn (try it some time, it's fun i assure you!) and they can also drive all day long. not 10 minutes hard then overheat then need 60 to charge and drive again.

what do you mean - anyone can beat them, there are 2 in this thread. i just posted a miata you could make yourself. the car this thread is about blows any tesla out of the water performance wise - and it's even made by the chinese!

tesla in reality makes a good full EV car for the luxury market. is it a 'true engineering marvel'? not by my nerd standards.

it remains to be seen whether they can make a competitive full EV car for the middle class.

to think that they and a full EV platform are just obvious winners and solutions and everyone on this board will be driving one in 5 or 10 years is a fantasy, imho.

You're providing one off purpose built cars. What other car has come even close to the acceleration that Tesla has, while offering reliability, refinement, space for kids, and on top of that no need for gas!

Sure, I can build a top fuel dragster to smoke a Tesla, but Tesla is the engineering geniuses that brought this to the masses in a refined easy to drive package.

And other manufacturers have auto pilots in the works? Please!...Tesla's has been out for years!

 

[sickmint79]

This guy gets it

i'm waiting for you to get it. you are acting like someone is a moron for buying a lambo, yet the only performance race that tesla is going to win is a short sprint. whereas the lambo could lap a track all day long. the tesla will cook brakes and/or drivetrain, and if it doesn't, posts a lap slower than my stock not exactly a supercar brz. outside anything but a short sprint, another hare will beat that car, and so will a tortoise. so maybe someone buying a supercar isn't a total fool?

You're providing one off purpose built cars. What other car has come even close to the acceleration that Tesla has, while offering reliability, refinement, space for kids, and on top of that no need for gas!

i'm commenting in particular on your 'true engineering marvel' statement. is a refined interior or space for kids a factor for that? when i think of true engineering marvel i think of large hadron collider, not "seats 4 comfortably in leather"

Sure, I can build a top fuel dragster to smoke a Tesla, but Tesla is the engineering geniuses that brought this to the masses in a refined easy to drive package.

or a backyard miata...
agreed on well executed package. just not your fanboyism past that.

And other manufacturers have auto pilots in the works? Please!...Tesla's has been out for years!

you seem to have researched the history of electric vehicles and self driving cars equally, which is not at all

 

[YoushallgoFo]

so lets say you had this thing vs a NASCAR stock car and they had to do the whole 200 laps at daytona. Refueling allowed. How would an electric car handle in that?

 

[Yaj Yak]

so lets say you had this thing vs a NASCAR stock car and they had to do the whole 200 laps at daytona. Refueling allowed. How would an electric car handle in that?

quick change battery packs.

 

[Chet Donnelly]

i'm waiting for you to get it. you are acting like someone is a moron for buying a lambo, yet the only performance race that tesla is going to win is a short sprint. whereas the lambo could lap a track all day long. the tesla will cook brakes and/or drivetrain, and if it doesn't, posts a lap slower than my stock not exactly a supercar brz. outside anything but a short sprint, another hare will beat that car, and so will a tortoise. so maybe someone buying a supercar isn't a total fool?



i'm commenting in particular on your 'true engineering marvel' statement. is a refined interior or space for kids a factor for that? when i think of true engineering marvel i think of large hadron collider, not "seats 4 comfortably in leather"



or a backyard miata...
agreed on well executed package. just not your fanboyism past that.



you seem to have researched the history of electric vehicles and self driving cars equally, which is not at all

Packaging all that together does make it an engineering marvel. Sure someone can easily make a car to do one thing great, but the Tesla does just about everything great. And for that, it is an engineering marvel. It figured out the secret to the automotive rubix cube of how to get insane, reliable performance, in a luxurious refined vehicle that can drive a large family around.

Add to that the most amazing autopilot available on the market today, and its just over the top how amazing the Model S is.

Have you ever been in a Model S with ludicrous mode? It is just that...ludicrous!

so lets say you had this thing vs a NASCAR stock car and they had to do the whole 200 laps at daytona. Refueling allowed. How would an electric car handle in that?

I like how we have had to go to purpose built race cars to even come close to something being better than a Model S. Quick change batter packs, and some performance brakes, and I would bet a Model S could beat most NASCAR's in a race.

 

[YoushallgoFo]

quick change battery packs.

how long does that take? does any car do that now?

 

[sickmint79]

so lets say you had this thing vs a NASCAR stock car and they had to do the whole 200 laps at daytona. Refueling allowed. How would an electric car handle in that?

this is a formula e pit stop. just like k1...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5cnpNRWQBU

 

[Yaj Yak]

how long does that take? does any car do that now?

it could be engineered to happen for that situation pretty easily me thinks.

 

[YoushallgoFo]

lol they just swap the entire car out?

 

[Yaj Yak]

 

[sickmint79]

Packaging all that together does make it an engineering marvel. Sure someone can easily make a car to do one thing great, but the Tesla does just about everything great. And for that, it is an engineering marvel. It figured out the secret to the automotive rubix cube of how to get insane, reliable performance, in a luxurious refined vehicle that can drive a large family around.

no it's not. miata guys could have just picked a bigger platform that had more seat space and made a nicer interior. at this point you are arguing a nicer seat and sound system is worthy of the term engineering marvel. it was a great product and package, where designers and engineers were free to build it as they pleased vs. the econo boxes in the past, or less clever designs. it's still not a rocket though. is a really nice fidget spinner an engineering marvel now too? i wonder how many actual engineers, not fanboys, actually look at a tesla and would call it a "true engineering marvel."

Add to that the most amazing autopilot available on the market today, and its just over the top how amazing the Model S is.

Have you ever been in a Model S with ludicrous mode? It is just that...ludicrous!


I like how we have had to go to purpose built race cars to even come close to something being better than a Model S. Quick change batter packs, and some performance brakes, and I would bet a Model S could beat most NASCAR's in a race.

but you don't need to do that comparison. you can see it being a failboat on a race track against normal cars above. you are blind to it because the only performance metric you see is a 10 second pedal smash (and better give it a break after that smash)

 

[CMNTMXR57]

I think that the charging is my biggest issue and one of the points I was trying to make early on in this.

The Tesla has the largest range by far. It would work, if I can swing a used one, it is DEFINTELY on my radar once I get a more solid job situation.

The charging now becomes an issue. Most of these take hours to fully charge. Yes, Tesla has a "supercharger" but even here in the Chicago area, use their supercharger location finder and there are about 5 in the total area. The nearest "Supercharger" to me in Elgin, is at Woodmans in North Aurora. The next closest is a toss up between somewhere in Rockford and Highland Park. Destination charging? A few more places, but some are for paying customers of that establishment that owns them. Again, this isn't as big an issue with the Tesla and something I can work around because of it's much better range right from the get go. But we get back to the Volt. ~50 mile range, 4.5 hours to charge at it's quickest rate with a 240 volt charger installed at home... NO!

This is why I eluded to the infrastructure originally. When the range on my ICE clunker is up, I pull into one of the 2 trillion gas stations that are on every corner, dump $20 in, in less than 5 minutes, and I'm on my way again. It's that ease/flexibility that isn't quite there yet with EV's.

Again, I'm not knocking it. I want to definitely try it if I can ween one of my dailys off gas completely, that's a huge savings right there. But that ease of availability and quickness of replenishment just isn't there yet.

 

[Yaj Yak]

hey. psst. sickmint.

ryan's ryan'ing today.

aka what he always does.

 

[Chet Donnelly]

no it's not. miata guys could have just picked a bigger platform that had more seat space and made a nicer interior. at this point you are arguing a nicer seat and sound system is worthy of the term engineering marvel. it was a great product and package, where designers and engineers were free to build it as they pleased vs. the econo boxes in the past, or less clever designs. it's still not a rocket though. is a really nice fidget spinner an engineering marvel now too? i wonder how many actual engineers, not fanboys, actually look at a tesla and would call it a "true engineering marvel."



but you don't need to do that comparison. you can see it being a failboat on a race track against normal cars above. you are blind to it because the only performance metric you see is a 10 second pedal smash (and better give it a break after that smash)

You are insanely over simplifying everything. Could Miata guys pick a bigger platform with a nice interior and matched a Tesla? No, they couldn't...only Tesla has done that.

Its like saying the Hellcat could have used a top fuel drag engine and could just as easily go faster. You are speaking in hypothetical fantasies that aren't real.

That is why Tesla's are a true engineering marvel!

 

[sickmint79]

i see a man with trump kool-aid in one hand and tesla kool-aid in the other, with wild eyes and an unquenchable thirst