"Dude" checking in. Lol. I'm glad to see I managed to inadvertently make a major contribution to the platform. I had looked into stacking them like that and offering a kit but I simply didn't have the development/fab time right now. Glad to see someone is running with the idea and I would love to get one of these when you've got the design all figured out.
ICM "stacking" aka multiple ICM's in parallel...
- Thread starter Turbocharged400sbc
- Start date
Interested to see how this all works out still, and if worth time/$$/hassle vs the MSD
solution witch is pretty easy to drop in and wire up.
I haven't yet hit a limitation with spark so far.. but I am sure it is around the corner soon.
Waiting for it to crop up before doing something about it.
solution witch is pretty easy to drop in and wire up.
I haven't yet hit a limitation with spark so far.. but I am sure it is around the corner soon.
Waiting for it to crop up before doing something about it.
MSD solution is expensive as hell this just requires an extra ICM and 6 longer bolts.
even at 18 psi we've found it loves .042 and larger for idle smoothness...but that results in blowout up top and at the tighter .028-032 that does not blow out causes a rough and choppy idle.
I don't know if there will be a big improvement from 2 to 3 ICMS but at least we know that there's a huge difference with two
even at 18 psi we've found it loves .042 and larger for idle smoothness...but that results in blowout up top and at the tighter .028-032 that does not blow out causes a rough and choppy idle.
I don't know if there will be a big improvement from 2 to 3 ICMS but at least we know that there's a huge difference with two
i think imma grab the "battery cooler" intake/duct from a grandam/etc that runs over the core support.
grab two of em and cut one end open to spread it and join to the heatsinks where the ICM harness connects and voila, RAM AIR ICM's that run at half their usual temperature....hell just the passenger side "cool" air from the rad/fans (low temp side of rad) would probably keep em cooler than the OEM flat plate.
these heatsink pieces are far from the ideal extrusion pattern, i was wanting something more substantial... but they were free lol
grab two of em and cut one end open to spread it and join to the heatsinks where the ICM harness connects and voila, RAM AIR ICM's that run at half their usual temperature....hell just the passenger side "cool" air from the rad/fans (low temp side of rad) would probably keep em cooler than the OEM flat plate.
these heatsink pieces are far from the ideal extrusion pattern, i was wanting something more substantial... but they were free lol
I have my gap at like .034 I think.. and so far been up to 22psi... Have had
no problems with idle or racing down the track a bunch. This is with original old ICM and random old coil Packs laying around. Why am I getting by so far? Just luck?
MSD is expensive, but its looking like you need more then just a spare ICM
and 6 bolts? Having to make your own heat sink setup, cooling ducts, thermal paste now? I am lazy now of days. I want everything in a box, slap it on,
and move on to the next thing. No fiddling with hogging out things or hacking
things up to cobble together. Mostly cause when it comes to that I screw it
up soooo badly.
I ended up getting some water-cooled heatsink blocks for mine, and was going to run my chilled intercooler water through them. The car is still apart so I haven't tested that setup.
As far as going from 2 modules on up to 3, I saw no visual difference whatsoever in spark strength/length. However the difference between 1 and 2 is astounding, lol.
As far as going from 2 modules on up to 3, I saw no visual difference whatsoever in spark strength/length. However the difference between 1 and 2 is astounding, lol.
I have my gap at like .034 I think.. and so far been up to 22psi... Have had
no problems with idle or racing down the track a bunch. This is with original old ICM and random old coil Packs laying around. Why am I getting by so far? Just luck?
MSD is expensive, but its looking like you need more then just a spare ICM
and 6 bolts? Having to make your own heat sink setup, cooling ducts, thermal paste now? I am lazy now of days. I want everything in a box, slap it on,
and move on to the next thing. No fiddling with hogging out things or hacking
things up to cobble together. Mostly cause when it comes to that I screw it
up soooo badly.
MSD is also not the same effectiveness. By any stretch of the imagination. Certainly not their DIS units anyway. Wiring in the extra harnesses was the biggest pain in the butt. I did not run heatsinks and didn't have issues, but it was also cold outside when I originally did this. The one module that I had no mounting plate whatsoever on did in fact fry, but when I actually bolted all 3 to separate mounting brackets, that was enough heat dissipation to keep them happy. Again, it was cold out though. I'm just running coolers on mine for extra peace of mind.
sweet! I was gonna send you a good (accurate to .001") layout of the 6 screw holes, 2 location pins, and the 3 rectangular coil location nubs because I have to make an offset base plate for the turtle to get all this extra height to fit. I would have a clearance issue with my wire boot and the belt wrap.
Definitely let us know how it goes! I was definitely curious myself as to whether or not it will help much in a real-world situation. If it's spark blowout due to the coils not being able to produce the voltage required to jump the gap then I think it definitely will. If it's blowout due to the required voltage getting high enough that the spark plug and/or plug wires can no longer insulate it, then it probably will make no difference.
I only know of 3, 3800 cars with the MSD. Why do you say not same effectiveness? I know very little in this area, so thats why i am questioning
What I looked over on the setup, doesn't seem all that bad to wire up.
PRJ made it sound like it wasn't a big deal to do on one he did.
My only concern on the MSD is its another part to fail.. cost isn't a big problem. Not cheap... but not $3000 either.
So other then $ , looking for reasons why one way is better then another.
The MSD as far as I've seen, has worked.. So like to know why its not the
way to go other then $.
I'm just not big on capacitive discharge ignition systems. I've had an MSD box go bad on me, and heard other horror stories as well. MSDs supposedly put out a TON of voltage for a very short duration spark...which may well jump a larger gap due to the higher voltage, but will be of an incredibly short duration. They basically use a capacitor to charge the coils with like 400 volts on the primary side. I have always heard, and have reason to believe it's true, that this is really hard on all the components of your ignition system. I'd rather have the nice long inductive spark as well as the high voltage...and anytime you can do anything with stock equipment, it makes things so much simpler.
The second module also adds redundancy...since if you wire in ALL the wires on the module, the car will run on either one independently so if you have a coil driver failure in one of the modules, it doesn't leave you stranded on the side of the road, just puts those two cylinders back to "stock" spark output.
The second module also adds redundancy...since if you wire in ALL the wires on the module, the car will run on either one independently so if you have a coil driver failure in one of the modules, it doesn't leave you stranded on the side of the road, just puts those two cylinders back to "stock" spark output.
Especially when the single spark duration from a dual ICM stock coil is probably quite a bit longer than the "multiple sparks" anyway. Duration is everything...all high voltage is good for is initially jumping that gap. And for burning up plug wires, lol.
Thanks for the info...
What about the Kenne Bell Boost-a-Spark ?
I haven't seen/heard anyone using these yet.
Doesn't seem to be as fancy as the MSD.. but got its little nob for "intensity" and
boost control switch...
It looks alot easier to wire in.. Just ground, power feed to it.. then from that to the ICM.
What about the Kenne Bell Boost-a-Spark ?
I haven't seen/heard anyone using these yet.
Doesn't seem to be as fancy as the MSD.. but got its little nob for "intensity" and
boost control switch...
It looks alot easier to wire in.. Just ground, power feed to it.. then from that to the ICM.
The boost-a-spark is basically an adjustable dc-dc boost converter. It feeds between 15 and 20 volts into the coil primary to charge them faster/more completely. I used a similar setup on my car prior to going to the multiple ignition modules, but instead of the kenne bell, I just used an adjustable dc-dc boost converter, which was cheaper and put out more peak voltage (24V) and current than the boost-a-spark.
Here is the unit I use. I also have used them as fuel pump voltage boosters. The one you want to look at is the PST-SR700-adj
12 volt DC/DC converters regulator from 100 to 700 Watts.
The only downside is it's much larger than the boost-a-spark unit...but consequently has a lot more power capacity.
Here is the unit I use. I also have used them as fuel pump voltage boosters. The one you want to look at is the PST-SR700-adj
12 volt DC/DC converters regulator from 100 to 700 Watts.
The only downside is it's much larger than the boost-a-spark unit...but consequently has a lot more power capacity.
The real issue with the voltage booster, is that I believe the ignition module is still limiting the current...so it may help in the upper RPMs where the higher voltage will still allow the coil to charge completely, but I saw no difference whatsoever in the gap that the spark will jump at 12v vs 24v feeding the coils (I tested it with an adjustable rig to see what the max gap would be). However, two ignition modules even with 12V primary made a ridiculous improvement.
Some interesting facts.... take em for what you will..
MattM played with having 2 icms years ago, and said he netted no gains..
Even did a setup with 6 coils?
He does have the DIS4 setup..
Ran 8.69 with the MSD setup bypassed when it died. So was on stock
IGN. He was using the MSD for its retarding ability for the most part.
He then mention how he thought he had a spark problem for not getting power
to the ground.. and in the end, it was the torque converter was his issue.
His impression is, stock IGN is perfectly fine and if you have problems, its
something else.. :shrug: ....
For myself, I am gonna have to wait until I hit this problem or not... hopefully not
less crap to do = less things to worry about.
MattM played with having 2 icms years ago, and said he netted no gains..
Even did a setup with 6 coils?
He does have the DIS4 setup..
Ran 8.69 with the MSD setup bypassed when it died. So was on stock
IGN. He was using the MSD for its retarding ability for the most part.
He then mention how he thought he had a spark problem for not getting power
to the ground.. and in the end, it was the torque converter was his issue.
His impression is, stock IGN is perfectly fine and if you have problems, its
something else.. :shrug: ....
For myself, I am gonna have to wait until I hit this problem or not... hopefully not
less crap to do = less things to worry about.
I think we all can agree that if you don't have an ignition weakness to start with, then stronger spark probably makes less than a 1% difference, no matter how much stronger. I have a video on my phone of the spark with one module vs two, plugging in and unplugging the second while the car was running to show back to back difference. The difference is obvious and stunning. It's too big of a file to email to myself, so I'll have to figure out how to get it onto my computer before I can post it.
Probably. I'm not very good with technology these days, lol. I'll see what I can do.
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