Engine developed ticking

[musclemerc]

Some interpretation needed.

In an effort to determine which side of the #6 cylinder is causing the engine tapping or ticking with loss of compression, I did the following procedure: removed spark plug and replaced with adapter ( hose with spark plug threads to NPT). Pulled fuel pump control fuses (2) and cranked engine until #6 was more or less at TDC on compression stroke by covering the open end of the adapter with my finger. No doubt when compression was reached. Then I introduced low volume (60lbs) of air through adapter into the cylinder and listened for air leaks at exhaust (drivers side) and throttle body intake (blades opened). The wife helped.

The results were: no air or sound of air escaping from tail pipe. I could hear air from the throttle body but not feel anything on my hand. Cylinder did hold pressure but it was only for a few moments before I released it.

Is this normal? or is intake leaking and being vented through manifold vacuum lines or past other orifices? Is this procedure logical?

This is to give a shop some info when I eventually take the car to them in February.

Cruzer from MM.net has confidence in the Dallas area SVT dealership. He interviewed them for me and feels that know what they are doing, have done this repair many times and may even give me a fleet rate discount.

However they are 190 miles away, would it be harmful to the motor to drive over?

Thanks,

Pat

pull the timing cover and removed the head and know 100% where the problem is.

You've gone this far, you can do it!!! :clap:

Its really not all that hard to do and you can pull it with the headers (if you have them) intact

If you end up needing a block check out JDM http://www.modularfords.com/forums/f155/jdm-302ef-stroker-shortblock-special-178747/

 

[Silverback]

I'm laughing at myself on one hand and heartened on the other. Without realizing it I performed a half-azzed leak down test. I knew of such a test but didn't know how simple it was nor the parameters. Heck, I thought I was inventing the wheel. LOL

So I'm going to perform a real leak down test and then I can properly evaluate the results. The Internet is my friend.

Thanks for the encouragement musclemerc.

However, I will keep the thread updated for comic relief.


Regards,

 

[musclemerc]

Subscribing......

 

[Silverback]

Learned something new tonight. The valve train has a device that's called a Cam Follower, looks like a little rocker arm, but is mechanical. There is another valve train component that's called a Lasher and is hydraulic (oil filled) and does essentially the same thing as a lifter in OHV engines. Seldom talked about, but that may be what is causing my ticking/clicking problem.

Other forums discuss problems associated with this component. A trip to dealership to discuss this, have their mech listen and see if the component(s) can be replaced without taking the head off.

I'll go next week.

 

[Zack]

Learned something new tonight. The valve train has a device that's called a Cam Follower, looks like a little rocker arm, but is mechanical. There is another valve train component that's called a Lasher and is hydraulic (oil filled) and does essentially the same thing as a lifter in OHV engines. Seldom talked about, but that may be what is causing my ticking/clicking problem.

Other forums discuss problems associated with this component. A trip to dealership to discuss this, have their mech listen and see if the component(s) can be replaced without taking the head off.

I'll go next week.

You can change a lifter yourself. All you need is a screwdriver and make sure the cam is at the lowest point.

 

[Silverback]

Zack, I saw a video tonight where a man pried off the cam follower. Is that what you are referring to? I'll go back and see it I can find it again, it was on u-tube.

Is the lash adjuster just below the cam follower? Are the intake and exhaust lash adjusters different?

 

[Zack]

Zack, I saw a video tonight where a man pried off the cam follower. Is that what you are referring to? I'll go back and see it I can find it again, it was on u-tube.

Is the lash adjuster just below the cam follower? Are the intake and exhaust lash adjusters different?

Yeah I think I watched that video years ago as well.
There is no difference between exhaust and intake components.
Pop off with a screwdriver, re-install with a screwdriver.

The chances of a bad lifter are almost non-existent.
Check for a blocked oil inlet though.

Your ticking can also be coming from the cam caps if it was starving for oil.

 

[Silverback]

That's something new to consider, oil starvation. The orifice that routes oil to the lasters is not tiny, it's relatively large, the cam cap oil passage is worth looking at.
But not sure how.

I was reading the valve lash section of Hyland SA-82, page 81, How to build max performance 4.6 - liter Ford Engines, and this section treats the valve lash more indepth.

I quote, "the limiting factor seems to be the pumping up of the adjuster, particulqarly on the 4 valve engies, with the low (60 Lbs) installed spring pressue, the adjuster can pump the valve right off the seat. This is the main reason the oil viscosity is critical, the bleed-down rate of the adjuster is designed around a specific oil viscosity.....5W20 or 5W30 depending on model year.

That may explain the low compression, the lifter is keeping a valve(s) open slightly.

There may be two or more problems operating in cylinder #6. One causing the tapping/clicking and another causing loss of compression.

Sound more and more like all 4 lashers may need replacement. Just theory of course.

I gather these engine top decks don't spray a lot of oil around compared to push rod versions.

The drivers side seems fairly "dry", no puddles of oil and only a small amount on the components. I don't have any experience in this area, is this normal?

 

[Silverback]

Possible causes for ticking

Memo to Self;

The possible causes for my engines ticking, tapping are:

Valve seat seperation due to recent overheating.
Lasher adjuster sticking open or closed.
Cam cap's not oiling properly.
Excessivel worn valve guides
Broken or warped valve face or stem.
Blown head gasket due to warped head.

Fix will require head removal and inspection. Fix will require valve job or head replacement.

Further actions delayed pending funds availability. 2nd quarter of 012.

 

[RacerX]

Did you pull the injector harnesses one at a time while the engine was running and listen for changes in the noise?

 

[01Cobra]

or destroyed wrist pin

 

[Silverback]

I want to close out this thread, the ticking stopped, but the compression still remains lower than normal, vacuum is low as discussed in my other thread,"Idle response seems slow". The car will be going to Zack for repair in mid April.

 

[musclemerc]

Why close out the thread? Leave it open.

You obviously have some serious engine damage (wrist pin is also my guess) tick gone or not.

I had this issue back in the day on a stroker motor the ticking stopped but the low compression and the extra quart of oil in my upper/lower intake (low vacuum also) assured me the problem didnt just go away.

Im sure Zack will start a new thread once the repair starts

 

[Burt Ragio]

What Closing the thread ? I thought I was about to learn some thing valuable. Hope it all ends well.

 

[guspech750]

Yeah. Don't close it. Let Zack add to it once he starts on your car Pat.


Sent from my iPhone
Eaton Swap + 4.10's = Wreeeeeeeeeedom!!

 

[Tbone63]

Unfortunately Zack, the lower radiator hose cracked open a few weeks ago. My son did a repair with a hose splice at the nearest station but the temp guage did go hot. I had forgotten about it. Good call.

I'll do a compression test in the next few days when Jason gets some free time.

So, at the very least I'm looking at a new or reman head?

Aha! Zack, I thought you said you never heard of a hose failing on one of these cars? So I guess the $150 and 4 hours I spent re-vamping my cooling system was money well spent after all.:biggthump

 

[Zack]

Aha! Zack, I thought you said you never heard of a hose failing on one of these cars? So I guess the $150 and 4 hours I spent re-vamping my cooling system was money well spent after all.:biggthump

If you go back and read (maybe not in this particular thread), there was something rubbing against the hose that wasnt supposed to be there.

 

[Tbone63]

If you go back and read (maybe not in this particular thread), there was something rubbing against the hose that wasnt supposed to be there.

Well, he did say it "cracked" open.

Regardless, if $150 saves me from the remotest possibility of failure and overheating, and the massive damage it can wreak on a motor, not to mention the warm fuzzies, it is money well spent.

 

[musclemerc]

^^^You are aware even a new hose can fail?

NOTHING IS GUARANTEED....

 

[Tbone63]

^^^You are aware even a new hose can fail?

NOTHING IS GUARANTEED....

Ahhhhhhhh, really? Thanks for clearing that up.

A new one is infinitely better than a nearly 10 year old one with 133,000 miles on it. I'll take my chances on a new one, especially for the insignificant cost.

I, and the vast majority of MM owners, have had no problems with cooling the rear cylinders either. But I see you sell a kit on your site. I believe your product is an example of being proactive, rather than reactive, to cooling problems that can potentially lead to catastrophic failure of engine components. How is your cooling kit different from me changing out all my hoses, t-stat and pump?

 

[musclemerc]

^^^Not trying to get into a debate with you on cooling system do's and do not's. I just cant get my head around the chest thumping you got going on. OK so you changed out a few hoses on a cooling system....And?

None of your comments have anything to do with what happened to the OP's MM. :biggthump

As far as a cooling mod goes. You and other MM owners like you dont have enough wrench time in to make a judgement call on what the "vast majority" is or is not having trouble with. Get out of the Marauder forums and visit other modular forums more often if you really want to know whats going on in the modular world.

Cooling mods aren't a new thing, they've been out for a number of years from a number of manufacturers all diffrent in their own way but all serving a specific purpose

 

[Tbone63]

^^^Not trying to get into a debate with you on cooling system do's and do not's. I just cant get my head around the chest thumping you got going on. OK so you changed out a few hoses on a cooling system....And?

None of your comments have anything to do with what happened to the OP's MM. :biggthump

As far as a cooling mod goes. You and other MM owners like you dont have enough wrench time in to make a judgement call on what the "vast majority" is or is not having trouble with. Get out of the Marauder forums and visit other modular forums more often if you really want to know whats going on in the modular world.

Cooling mods aren't a new thing, they've been out for a number of years from a number of manufacturers all diffrent in their own way but all serving a specific purpose

I never said my comments had to do with his problem. It was a private matter concerning the cooling system between Zack and I in a couple pm's we exchanged a while back, and I took the opportunity to rib him a little. Nothing to do with you.

Why you had to remind me that even new parts fail is beyond me. And why you feel the need to thump your own chest and your supreme expertise while diminishing mine and others is pretty ballsy as well.

Have a great day.

 

[Silverback]

To clarify the hose fail issue, "cracked" is the wrong word, should be "worn" thru. Zack is right, the crank pulley wore through the hose because the routing of the short hose from the block to the down hose at the thermostat junction from the COT was slightly altered by the S/C piping and a longer than usual bottom hose pushing the short hose closer to the crank pulley. I had the hoses tie strapped but alas the strap I used was puny and I didn't notice that it had broken. Mea culpa.