Engine developed ticking

Silverback

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Hi Ho;

Just completed a 3000 mile trouble free trip and stopped for gas 200 miles from home when I noticed a fairly loud ticking noise coming from the passenger side of the engine at start up. Car has 104,000 miles on the trip meter and is a daily driver. oil changed regularly at 4K.

Car seems to run OK. No smoke. Don't have headers and no work has been done on the engine.
Engine is supercharged with a NOVI 1200 self oiler and car is driven mildly.

Anything I can do or is this a case for a dealer fix.

Thanks,
 

musclemerc

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Sounds VERY familiar......

Get ready to open that ass pocket......
 

blck10th

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Call deans performance. I would not go near the dealer with it
 

Zack

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It could be anything. Nearly impossible to diagnose a noise over the internet.
The first thing i would do is check the spark plugs for tightness.
If they back out a few threads it can cause a tick and the engine will still run good.
 

Zack

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And Pat, wise up and dont have it trailered to Dennis. Dont even call him.
Hes going to try and sell you a cobra crate motor and keep the car hostage for months, even though its a 3 day job.
 

Silverback

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Using my wife's stethoscope the clicking is coming from the drivers side not the passenger side as I first thought. (Oh no, not the dreaded #8 cylinder overheating problem?)

So, if the plugs are tight, and I'll check this AM, then I should prolly not drive the car as the condition could worsen and otherwise ruin the motor?

Musclemerc, you seem to have some experience with this problem, please share.
 

Zack

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Do you have a cooling mod done?
If not, and its number 8, I suspect the beginning stages of a dropped valve seat.
You may get lucky and find its a follower that popped off and the cam is hitting it.....but doubtful.

Valve seats usually fail during warm up or cool down, when the metals are expanding/contracting.
Has the car overheated ever? Recently?
 

Silverback

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Unfortunately Zack, the lower radiator hose cracked open a few weeks ago. My son did a repair with a hose splice at the nearest station but the temp guage did go hot. I had forgotten about it. Good call.

I'll do a compression test in the next few days when Jason gets some free time.

So, at the very least I'm looking at a new or reman head?
 

Zack

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Unfortunately Zack, the lower radiator hose cracked open a few weeks ago. My son did a repair with a hose splice at the nearest station but the temp guage did go hot. I had forgotten about it. Good call.

I'll do a compression test in the next few days when Jason gets some free time.

So, at the very least I'm looking at a new or reman head?
With your mileage repairing one head and not freshening up the other is plain out of the question.

I repaired a members car with the same problem, refreshed both heads, repaired the valve seat and he was in and out with labor and machine shop services for right about 1000 bucks.
Shame you dont live by me.

Your head can be repaired, no need for a new one (assuming it is a valve seat)
 

Silverback

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Hey, thanks Zack, I'll check in with my local repair shop who has experience with "Laughing Gassers" MM and get a more accurate estimate for repair including machine shop services (since part of their operation includes machine shop services)
 

Zack

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Hey, thanks Zack, I'll check in with my local repair shop who has experience with "Laughing Gassers" MM and get a more accurate estimate for repair including machine shop services (since part of their operation includes machine shop services)
A shop will rape you no doubt.
I would guess that it may be cheaper to swap in a used low mileage engine than to have yours fixed by any shop.

Good luck.
 

4DoorBlackTop

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Check the plugs first as stated. Let's hope its as simple as that, sounds like it isn't.
 

musclemerc

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Using my wife's stethoscope the clicking is coming from the drivers side not the passenger side as I first thought. (Oh no, not the dreaded #8 cylinder overheating problem?)

So, if the plugs are tight, and I'll check this AM, then I should prolly not drive the car as the condition could worsen and otherwise ruin the motor?

Musclemerc, you seem to have some experience with this problem, please share.
I would have to look at the car. Your in LA... I'm in Central MS... :dunno:

Do a compression or leak down test and post up the results.

Hopefully its just the heads if its not then its cylinder #8. You know the rest
 

Silverback

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Hi Ho;

Pulled all the plugs on the drivers side and they appear good, all were tight and burning OK. #'s 5 and 6 were darker than 7 and 8.

Did a compression check/test and cylinders 5,7,8 were the same pressure at 240+ Lbs with six cranks.

Cylinder #6 was 180 Lbs with six cranks.

Cleaned the plugs with my handy dandy MAC tools plug cleaning device with the beads.

Next step is to pull the valve cover and see if the cam followers are in the correct places/position. There is a picture on the Internet that can guide me.

OK, the valve cover is off and all looks OK, no loose pieces.

Nothing else I can do. It's shop time. The shop is about thirty miles away would it be OK to drive the car there?

Cheers,
 

musclemerc

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WOW.... 240lbs????

and the lowest was 180lbs??

Are you 100% sure of this?
 

Silverback

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Yes, the car was cranked 6 times per cylinder and held the pressure for a few minutes each. We have a MAC tools pressure test set. Nice piece of equipment.

We are putting the car back together now.
 

Zack

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Im not experienced enough to definitively conclude the problem, but it sure sounds like the timing chain may have skipped a tooth.
I dunno though.........you said it still runs perfect?
 

Silverback

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Zack, when we were leaving the the restaurant in Little Rock, Ark. is when I first noticed it, we drove home 200 miles at highway speeds, 65-70 MPH with no problem.
car seemed to run normally.

Tonight we took off the valve cover and checked the valve train, all looked good.
After putting it all back together and motor running the clicking seems more pronounced because it's quite outside. It sound like a diesel engine.

Question - what does a spun rod bearing sound like?
 

yjmud

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A buddy of mines 96 gt S/C 4.6 spun a rod at first sounded like a diesel truck then became more of a knock
Do you have a real oil psi gauge in it if so what psi do you have?
 

Silverback

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yjmud; I have the stock oil pressure set up, just a pressure indication.

My next task is to do a leak test to see if the loss of compression is caused by the intake valve side, or the exhaust valve side or the piston/ring side.

I'll drain the oil, find TDC on the compression stroke, introduce some low pressure air into the cylinder via the spark plug hole and see where the air escapes, exhaust pipe, throttle body or oil drain hole. This may take a little time as I'm baby sitting this weekend and work next week. there are several ways to finding TDC on a particular cylinder. But I think my methodology is sound.

Pat
 

musclemerc

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Call me crazy but if you can do all of that why not just fix the car yourself?

You sound more than capable reading this last post.
 

Silverback

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Some interpretation needed.

In an effort to determine which side of the #6 cylinder is causing the engine tapping or ticking with loss of compression, I did the following procedure: removed spark plug and replaced with adapter ( hose with spark plug threads to NPT). Pulled fuel pump control fuses (2) and cranked engine until #6 was more or less at TDC on compression stroke by covering the open end of the adapter with my finger. No doubt when compression was reached. Then I introduced low volume (60lbs) of air through adapter into the cylinder and listened for air leaks at exhaust (drivers side) and throttle body intake (blades opened). The wife helped.

The results were: no air or sound of air escaping from tail pipe. I could hear air from the throttle body but not feel anything on my hand. Cylinder did hold pressure but it was only for a few moments before I released it.

Is this normal? or is intake leaking and being vented through manifold vacuum lines or past other orifices? Is this procedure logical?

This is to give a shop some info when I eventually take the car to them in February.

Cruzer from MM.net has confidence in the Dallas area SVT dealership. He interviewed them for me and feels that know what they are doing, have done this repair many times and may even give me a fleet rate discount.

However they are 190 miles away, would it be harmful to the motor to drive over?

Thanks,

Pat
 

Zack

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We are pretty much no use to you now unless we are there or can hear a good quality sound clip.
 

ProRauder

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If air is not passing the valves, it has to pass the rings. I would have squirted a bunch of oil into the cylinder and turned the engine over without firing it to see if the compression test improved. If it is the rings, the cylinder should show higher compression and your leak-down would prevent air from coming out the PCV valve, assuming the valves were indeed sealed.

As for driving is 190 miles. No. You clearly hear a problem and I would guess another 3 hours under load would not be a good thing. Borrow a trailer and tow it.
 

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