đź“° Auto News BREAKING: GM CEO Wagoner out at Obama's request

Smoke

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Feb 11, 2009
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I have had a clue ever since he was elected and you cannot honestly expect me to believe that this is right course of action????? When the companies go under and the american economy tanks even worse than it has now, then we will talk again.

Sorry,you do not raise taxes during a recession,unless you want to stop the economy cold.That's not opinion-its economic reality.

Understand that we didn't put ourselves (yes,cause we didn't help the economy by buying crap we didn't need)in this mess in just 4 years,and it will take a lot more than another 4 to turn this around.

And please,enlighten us lost sheep as to your conspiracy theory that explains the dastardly plot Obama has to take over the world via lowering taxes and asking for the resignation of GM's CEO?

Or,is it more likely that Obama doesn't want to be remembered as the dude who did nothing while America went broke? Keep in mind,GM would be in bankruptcy court now if the government had simply said 'no' to begin with and let the market do its thing.But of course,had Mr. Prez said 'no' then hed be castrated for *allowing* thousands to be unemployed-despite the honest and cold truth that those people should be unemployed anyways.


So he strings the companies along so that he doesn't look stupid on TV.

No conspiracy here.Just politics.
 

Turk

Lt. Ron "Slider" Kerner
TCG Premium
Jan 21, 2008
28,518
7,969
I have had a clue ever since he was elected and you cannot honestly expect me to believe that this is right course of action????? When the companies go under and the american economy tanks even worse than it has now, then we will talk again.

Taxing the consumer is going to help hte economy how? You are just taking more money out of the hands of the consumer, even less items will be bought!
 

James

TCG Elite Member
Jan 18, 2008
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When the companies go under and the american economy tanks even worse than it has now, then we will talk again.
We're already there clueless. :ugh:

I have had a clue ever since he was elected and you cannot honestly expect me to believe that this is right course of action?????
Do you know what an economist is? Because you certainly don't know what they're saying or recommending.
Oh, but you're smarter than most economists, right?
 

James

TCG Elite Member
Jan 18, 2008
1,951
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Taxing the consumer is going to help hte economy how? You are just taking more money out of the hands of the consumer, even less items will be bought!
We also need to raise interest rates so it's more expensive to buy cars and houses. We need to stop giving money to banks, it's o.k. if they don't give out any loans to small business, big businesses, or to people buying a house or car. Raise the gasoline tax which will make shipping, consumer goods, and food more expensive. Gotta raise taxes of course on the middle class, 90% of them still have a job!
Finally we need to impeach Obama, he couldn't fix the 8 year mess in 60 days, and elect the leaders of the GOP, either Rush Limbaugh or Michael Steele for President. :wiggle:


rush+steele+-+blog+pic.jpg
 

bluzohh6

The system works
Jul 2, 2007
10,687
163
Elgin, IL
Fact of the matter is there are good points on both sides. But everyone that is blindly following and praising Republicans must have already forgotten about the past 8 years. i guess 8 years of damage was really caused by democrats somehow.

I can't hold my tongue any longer about the Patriotic words of Thomas Jefferson quoted earlier.

The fact of the matter is Thomas Jefferson, I'm sure, could have never imagined someone such as George Bush ever running this country. Or the corrupt back office deals that he and Cheney took part in. I'm sure Thomas Jefferson never imagined someone who was elected as PRESIDENT of this country and who was supposed to have nothing but the best intentions for this country, selling out to Major Corporations, and letting corporations run this country and make decisions for this country. If you honestly believe President Bush is on the same level as Thomas Jefferson you have something wrong and you are horribly misguided. This past administration has used fear and scare tactics to get their agendas passed, while suspending our civil liberties. So please spare me the Jefferson quotes about bearing arms. Wake up, you should have been all up in arms when this past administration wrote the patriot act allowing the government to do whatever they felt like under the pretenses of terrorism. That shit is illegal and destroys the constitution, but you are going to be pissed about an effort to save some of our oldest companies, and make some restrictions about types of weapons and ammunition. Give Me a Break.
 

James

TCG Elite Member
Jan 18, 2008
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Meh, sometimes you have to realize there are a bunch of Joe the Plumbers out there- good luck trying to explain and make sense to that type- "the base" of the GOP. You gotta keep it to small words, simple ideas, and smile a lot...even if none of it makes sense.
Dubya was good at that, so was Sarah Palin.
 

bluzohh6

The system works
Jul 2, 2007
10,687
163
Elgin, IL
This is what I can't even wrap my head around. Republicans are for the rich, but they still have support. 70% of this country makes less than $50,000 per year, but everyone thinks they are a millionaire, and have the same wealth as the upper crust. WAKE UP PEOPLE the income stats don't lie, and these guys are catering to their upper crust friends!!!! NOT YOU!!! They are tricking you every time you vote for them, and you are buying the bullshit. ALL the Joe the Plumbers in the world are dumb, and setting everyone back on a constant basis, but they think they are doing good by asking complex questions they heard on Fox news, and expecting simple 5 second answers. Even if Obama took the time out to explain everything it would go right over the heads of Joe The Plumbers. So James I see your point now. The dumb are easily fooled, and this is why there is a Republican Party.
 

James

TCG Elite Member
Jan 18, 2008
1,951
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I highly doubt this guy came up with "any common sense American would want to raise taxes to get us out of this mess" all by himself. I can't wrap my head around who the fuck would ever say something like that for him to repeat it!
And I love how he is quoting Thomas Jefferson- so very patriotic! Because when you quote dead Presidents everyone knows you know what the hell you're talking about and you're a REAL American!
"We believe that the best of America is not all in Washington, D.C. ... We believe that the best of America is in these small towns that we get to visit, and in these wonderful little pockets of what I call the real America, being here with all of you hard working very patriotic, um, very, um, pro-America areas of this great nation." --Sarah Palin, speaking at a fundraiser in Greensoboro, N.C., Oct. 16, 2008

I'm right with you on guns. I'm with you on the Constitution and civil liberties...and to prove how damn patriotic I am:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0OQXI8lvqY
 

Turk

Lt. Ron "Slider" Kerner
TCG Premium
Jan 21, 2008
28,518
7,969
This is what I can't even wrap my head around. Republicans are for the rich, but they still have support. 70% of this country makes less than $50,000 per year, but everyone thinks they are a millionaire, and have the same wealth as the upper crust. WAKE UP PEOPLE the income stats don't lie, and these guys are catering to their upper crust friends!!!! NOT YOU!!! They are tricking you every time you vote for them, and you are buying the bullshit. ALL the Joe the Plumbers in the world are dumb, and setting everyone back on a constant basis, but they think they are doing good by asking complex questions they heard on Fox news, and expecting simple 5 second answers. Even if Obama took the time out to explain everything it would go right over the heads of Joe The Plumbers. So James I see your point now. The dumb are easily fooled, and this is why there is a Republican Party.


Now you are acting like a complete ADDICT. Republicans believe in small governemt, not just lower taxes for the wealthy. This would benefit everyone. Barker, do you own the company you work for? No? So do you think it's OK to tax the living hell out of the company you work for? Ok, but if they do that, they are going to have to cut your pay, ok? FYI, if you aren't the rich man, you work for him. Take money out of the rich mans hands, and he will take the food from your table.
 

sickmint79

I Drink Your Milkshake
Mar 2, 2008
27,078
16,897
grayslake
And please,enlighten us lost sheep as to your conspiracy theory that explains the dastardly plot Obama has to take over the world via lowering taxes and asking for the resignation of GM's CEO?

he ain't lowering taxes, he's letting the bush cuts expire right? plus his arbitrary line drawn in the sand at "too rich" is just silly. 250k is not anything like 2.5 mil. here is a great article on this: http://www.counterpunch.com/roberts03302009.html

and we have a ton of defecit spending - tax on your grandkids and some inflation that i'm sure is going to be coming with a vengeance soon enough.

as far as the interest rates, yes going up would hurt. but now they are trying to push them way down and reflate the bubble, which was the problem in the first place. might be more (initial, i doubt total) pain with rising rates - but no pain no gain. shit is fucked up right now. psst this is why i think markets should adjust interest rates - not men in a room thinking they can control it.
 

sickmint79

I Drink Your Milkshake
Mar 2, 2008
27,078
16,897
grayslake
Taxing the consumer is going to help hte economy how? You are just taking more money out of the hands of the consumer, even less items will be bought!

the belief is that the government knows how to spend it better than the free market / individual citizens. even if you do subscribe to this view, there is the great debate about what belongs in the stimulus - i know better than you how to stimulate the economy, do my project blah blah.

i'm a little on the fence of the idea of having a stimulus at all, i know my buddy RP certainly doesn't like it. i am idelogically opposed to it, but the world doesn't work in idelogies anyway. so i can live with a stimulus - if it is good. i think this one is shit - i think it will have a net negative impact and is much better though of as a spendulus.
 

sickmint79

I Drink Your Milkshake
Mar 2, 2008
27,078
16,897
grayslake
We're already there clueless. :ugh:


Do you know what an economist is? Because you certainly don't know what they're saying or recommending.
Oh, but you're smarter than most economists, right?

i think most economists these days are (or at least should be) treated with great skepticism, as 95% of them missed this whole event while it was staring them in the face. i do think obama's own expectations are a little optimistic and i would trust the estimates out of the GAO rather than his own circle of friends.
 

sickmint79

I Drink Your Milkshake
Mar 2, 2008
27,078
16,897
grayslake
Fact of the matter is there are good points on both sides. But everyone that is blindly following and praising Republicans must have already forgotten about the past 8 years. i guess 8 years of damage was really caused by democrats somehow.

I can't hold my tongue any longer about the Patriotic words of Thomas Jefferson quoted earlier.

The fact of the matter is Thomas Jefferson, I'm sure, could have never imagined someone such as George Bush ever running this country. Or the corrupt back office deals that he and Cheney took part in. I'm sure Thomas Jefferson never imagined someone who was elected as PRESIDENT of this country and who was supposed to have nothing but the best intentions for this country, selling out to Major Corporations, and letting corporations run this country and make decisions for this country. If you honestly believe President Bush is on the same level as Thomas Jefferson you have something wrong and you are horribly misguided. This past administration has used fear and scare tactics to get their agendas passed, while suspending our civil liberties. So please spare me the Jefferson quotes about bearing arms. Wake up, you should have been all up in arms when this past administration wrote the patriot act allowing the government to do whatever they felt like under the pretenses of terrorism. That shit is illegal and destroys the constitution, but you are going to be pissed about an effort to save some of our oldest companies, and make some restrictions about types of weapons and ammunition. Give Me a Break.

i know who TJ would have voted for and it wouldn't have been any of these jokers!!
 

sickmint79

I Drink Your Milkshake
Mar 2, 2008
27,078
16,897
grayslake
This is what I can't even wrap my head around. Republicans are for the rich, but they still have support. 70% of this country makes less than $50,000 per year, but everyone thinks they are a millionaire, and have the same wealth as the upper crust. WAKE UP PEOPLE the income stats don't lie, and these guys are catering to their upper crust friends!!!! NOT YOU!!! They are tricking you every time you vote for them, and you are buying the bullshit. ALL the Joe the Plumbers in the world are dumb, and setting everyone back on a constant basis, but they think they are doing good by asking complex questions they heard on Fox news, and expecting simple 5 second answers. Even if Obama took the time out to explain everything it would go right over the heads of Joe The Plumbers. So James I see your point now. The dumb are easily fooled, and this is why there is a Republican Party.

"for the rich" - that is a simplistic populist stereotype designed to rally people against "them". i read a book written by an economist who grew up in a very liberal family about charity. and one of the stats he had was that the average democrat makes more money than the average republican. the difference isn't that one is "for the rich" (and i would argue both parties are mostly corrupt puppets for $ interests) - the difference really comes down to what they expect government to do and what they think government is capable of. from a fiscal/economic standpoint the far left thinks the government is capable of providing everything well and efficiently, the far right thinks the government is capable of providing nothing well and efficiently.

for every joe the plumber i can quite confidently assure you there is an obamabot of equal intellectual capacity. (or maybe 1.1 obamabots because he had more votes) - i don't think it's a challenge to find a ton of people in either party that hold beliefs based on completely false pretenses. i look back during the primaries and see myself and all my fellow ron paul supporters declaring that a major economic crisis was imminent, and the only thing you heard from any other presidential candidate was 1. the economy is healthy (republicans) or 2. you are too poor, the rich are too rich (democrats) - with all these supposedly more intelligent people on one side or the other, how were they all missing arguably the greatest financial crisis in the history of the world? (after the bubble peak had already taken place in 2005 no less??)
 

Eagle

Nemo me impune lacessit
Moderator
TCG Premium
Mar 1, 2008
63,909
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Woodsticks, IL
This shit is WAY too deep for 9am in the morning. You people need to back away from the coffee pot. kthxbye.

Seriously tho, there's nothing wrong with canning Wagoner... except the fact that the president called for it to happen. There's no problem letting GM file for bankruptcy... no really, there's no problem with it. They'll come around on the back side of that deal much better off - less a bunch of the crap they're currently indebted to the UAW for. It will basically allow GM to become competitive in the automotive marketplace again. Yes, people will lose their jobs... but not ALL of them will and that is a good thing.

How to tax the people right now is a whole separate issue. Problem is the gvt is spending ridiculously right now, trying to prop up major institutions for a long enough period of time to allow the new prez research if the economy REALLY needs each of them around to bring about growth in the market. Raising taxes is going to be REALITY, its just a matter of time. Someone is going to have to pay for all this expenditure going on...
 

Spicy McHaggiz

The Gangs All Here!
Oct 6, 2007
3,950
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Hampton, VA
Since Eagle brought up the spending issue, heres a graph.

wapoobamabudget1.jpg


President Barack Obama has repeatedly claimed that his budget would cut the deficit by half by the end of his term. But as Heritage analyst Brian Riedl has pointed out, given that Obama has already helped quadruple the deficit with his stimulus package, pledging to halve it by 2013 is hardly ambitious. The Washington Post has a great graphic which helps put President Obama’s budget deficits in context of President Bush’s.
What’s driving Obama’s unprecedented massive deficits? Spending. Riedl details:

UPDATE: Many Obama defenders in the comments are claiming that the numbers above do not include spending on Iraq and Afghanistan during the Bush years. They most certainly do. While Bush did fund the wars through emergency supplementals (not the regular budget process), that spending did not simply vanish. It is included in the numbers above. Also, some Obama defenders are claiming the graphic above represents biased Heritage Foundation numbers. While we stand behind the numbers we put out 100%, the numbers, and the graphic itself, above are from the Washington Post. We originally left out the link to WaPo. It has been now been added.
CLARIFICATION: Of course, this Washington Post graphic does not perfectly delineate budget surpluses and deficits by administration. President Bush took office in January 2001, and therefore played a lead role in crafting the FY 2002-2008 budgets. Presidents Bush and Obama share responsibility for the FY 2009 budget deficit that overlaps their administrations, before President Obama assumes full budgetary responsibility beginning in FY 2010. Overall, President Obama’s budget would add twice as much debt as President Bush over the same number of years.

http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/24/bush-deficit-vs-obama-deficit-in-pictures/

Please take note, the graph is from the Washington Post.
 

bluzohh6

The system works
Jul 2, 2007
10,687
163
Elgin, IL
And about the spending, your numbers are skewed because the Bush administration didn't account for the Iraq war in their deficit numbers, which is estimated to have cost us $2.7 trillion as of June 12, 2008. So keep bashing someone that is actually playing by the rules and not hinding any cards, I guess ignorance is bliss.
 

sickmint79

I Drink Your Milkshake
Mar 2, 2008
27,078
16,897
grayslake
i barely skimmed that article, but as i recall it noted that the off war budgetary stuff was added in there? i also don't know where the x trillion for the war costs - the budget would have a ballpark number for *spending* - is the x trillion number supposed to include the other costs, like 'what could have happened had these people been producing stuff in the private sector rather than blowing up stuff' ?

regardless, the obama numbers are far, far larger - although i don't exactly blame obama for this. i think the picture would be very, very similar if we had mccain in office right now.
 
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