Autobahn Monday 9/14


OmniGLH

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Holly crap, you are the man. Gonna take some time tonight to digest this. I put the go pro on a tow hook mount for the final session. I know, some of it looks weird. Maybe because the tow hook is off center. It’s a hero 8, I dont think it pans on its own...
Anyways thanks .
8 has image stabilization. Figure out where that is in the menu and turn it off. It tries to anticipate motion based on G-force and smooth out the video.
 

OmniGLH

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hah, now I can put a face to a (nick)name!

you know, I was going to make a suggestion for you folks.... the turn-by-turn overlaps with one of the blue sessions :(

this was not my most technically proficient session of the day and I was having some trans issues with the trans not going into 3rd properly on downshifts sometimes. In other sessions I was pushing back the braking zone into 11 quite a bit deeper, just didn't manage that in this particular session/lap. Additionally in other sessions I've been flat through the mini-kink but early in the day I cut the curbing a little early (ker-chunk) so my brain was making me hold up a bit on that.

curious what else you see?

The primary goal is for the Novice group - to come in and ask questions about areas of the track they're getting stuck on. If they ask, we focus on particular turns. If nobody says anything, we do a complete lap.

But you raise a good point - the intermediate group is likely the group that's doing well enough, they are starting to think about particular areas to improve.

The only counter I can have to that - you get enough track time, it might be worth sacrificing a session to sit in. ;)




As for the lap you shared....

So I see lots of TC light flashing. A ZL1 has stupid horsepower so that's going to prove tricky to begin with - areas you want to be WOT will probably have your balls up in your throat lol. So the trick for retarded horsepowers is to be smooth. Try a taller gear so you can be WOT more everywhere and manage the output.

I assume the gear ratios are slightly different between the Z06 Corvette and your Camaro? Because I recall riding right-seat with J-LO J-LO here (heck I might've been adding 240lbs of ballast in his fast lap video?) in his C7Z and he did the entire track in 3rd gear. No downshifting (or upshifting) once up to speed - 3rd the entire thing. If your car is geared shorter (I think it is...) then consider rolling the entire thing in 4th.

- You've got more than enough grunt to pull from low RPM
- One less thing to deal with (shifting)
- Less torque at the tire - can more easily put power down
- Less torque overall means car will be less "jumpy" and reactive to throttle input
- For turns where the car really feels like it's bogging - work on increasing mid-corner speed and get the car up into the power via higher vehicle speed, vs. a downchange and trying to explode out of it
- 3rd and 4th look really close in ratio anyways

Until you get accustomed to being able to really plant your right foot early, and let the rear steer the car a bit - my hunch is you will go faster this way. It won't "feel" as fast but I bet the increase in smoothness overall will help you pick up time everywhere.

After all that - your line isn't bad. A few spots to clean up but what I see more of is just timidness. Areas where you should really be applying throttle to get a drive THROUGH the turn, you're hesitant until you're almost pointed straight. And then when you do hit the gas - TC light blinks. Which is why I think 4th gear might be better. It will allow you to work on applying the throttle earlier, rolling it on, without the risk of spinning to your death.

Turn specific feedback...
- Feels like you could run it a little wider in the Link turn - get closer to the driveway on the right. That'll open up the exit which means easier to apply throttle
- Same with 2 - run it a little wider mid-corner so you can sorta square up the exit and be set for entry to 3
- You totally dropped the throttle between 2 and 3, and then were really late to re-apply. Try working on maintenance throttle through there. Don't drop fully, just roll back a bit.
- Late getting on the throttle for 5. Power down and unwind the wheel at the same time - try to get a drive through it
- 7 should be FLAT. I'd imagine even in your car. It might want to drift/slide a little towards track out? I'd go watch J-LO's video see if he was WOT. Up a gear will help there too.
- 14, used up too much track on the exit. Probably trying to carry too much speed. Sacrifice 14 so you can get a good drive through 15
 

J-LO

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I’m not going to have tires or a lap timer for the last laps day but I’d be happy to do some lead follow with anyone looking for it. The first real improvements I had to my lap times was when I followed a 911 turbo with my z . We had similar abilities but were faster in different areas. Working together we shaved 5 seconds off my lap times. All because I could keep him close.

That zl1 could probably do the whole track in third/4th. Gonna have to watch the video.
 

J-LO

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Is 7 that lil kink? No I don’t have big enough balls to do that
 

Phalabala

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The primary goal is for the Novice group - to come in and ask questions about areas of the track they're getting stuck on. If they ask, we focus on particular turns. If nobody says anything, we do a complete lap.

But you raise a good point - the intermediate group is likely the group that's doing well enough, they are starting to think about particular areas to improve.

The only counter I can have to that - you get enough track time, it might be worth sacrificing a session to sit in. ;)




As for the lap you shared....

So I see lots of TC light flashing. A ZL1 has stupid horsepower so that's going to prove tricky to begin with - areas you want to be WOT will probably have your balls up in your throat lol. So the trick for retarded horsepowers is to be smooth. Try a taller gear so you can be WOT more everywhere and manage the output.

I assume the gear ratios are slightly different between the Z06 Corvette and your Camaro? Because I recall riding right-seat with J-LO J-LO here (heck I might've been adding 240lbs of ballast in his fast lap video?) in his C7Z and he did the entire track in 3rd gear. No downshifting (or upshifting) once up to speed - 3rd the entire thing. If your car is geared shorter (I think it is...) then consider rolling the entire thing in 4th.

- You've got more than enough grunt to pull from low RPM
- One less thing to deal with (shifting)
- Less torque at the tire - can more easily put power down
- Less torque overall means car will be less "jumpy" and reactive to throttle input
- For turns where the car really feels like it's bogging - work on increasing mid-corner speed and get the car up into the power via higher vehicle speed, vs. a downchange and trying to explode out of it
- 3rd and 4th look really close in ratio anyways

Until you get accustomed to being able to really plant your right foot early, and let the rear steer the car a bit - my hunch is you will go faster this way. It won't "feel" as fast but I bet the increase in smoothness overall will help you pick up time everywhere.

After all that - your line isn't bad. A few spots to clean up but what I see more of is just timidness. Areas where you should really be applying throttle to get a drive THROUGH the turn, you're hesitant until you're almost pointed straight. And then when you do hit the gas - TC light blinks. Which is why I think 4th gear might be better. It will allow you to work on applying the throttle earlier, rolling it on, without the risk of spinning to your death.

Turn specific feedback...
- Feels like you could run it a little wider in the Link turn - get closer to the driveway on the right. That'll open up the exit which means easier to apply throttle
- Same with 2 - run it a little wider mid-corner so you can sorta square up the exit and be set for entry to 3
- You totally dropped the throttle between 2 and 3, and then were really late to re-apply. Try working on maintenance throttle through there. Don't drop fully, just roll back a bit.
- Late getting on the throttle for 5. Power down and unwind the wheel at the same time - try to get a drive through it
- 7 should be FLAT. I'd imagine even in your car. It might want to drift/slide a little towards track out? I'd go watch J-LO's video see if he was WOT. Up a gear will help there too.
- 14, used up too much track on the exit. Probably trying to carry too much speed. Sacrifice 14 so you can get a good drive through 15
Thanks, plenty to think about there!
I have done the track in fourth before, I'll give that a shot. I was comparing telemetry and I was seeing more traction control light activity compared to previous runs with similar control inputs (looking at graphs of steering angle and throttle percent) earlier in the season. I'm not super sure what that is about. In sport 1 it doesn't like to rotate with throttle, I might try sport 2 which will dial the assistance back and force me to be smoother while allowing some rotation...

I've taken 7 flat before, I was just having a mental hangup with it Monday due to a mistake I made earlier in the day clipping the front of the curbing there :(

Great note on 14, I was trying to sacrifice it for 15 but still can't quite get it right! One of the instructors also gave a tip to brush the brakes to get the front to bite for 15, I managed to do it right... Once... Always more to practice!

Thanks again!!!
 

Phalabala

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I tried flat out over the jump once Monday too, just to see what would happen....
 

10sec

I haz dat teddy bear smile.
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I broke my axle in my TQless s2000 over that jump :rofl: Granted it was some parts store BS axle. Airborne long enough to gain wheel speed to shock it for breakage. Back to an OEM axle and shouldn't ever have to worry about that again.
 
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WhiteKnuckleScat

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OmniGLH OmniGLH can you do my check ride tomorrow so I can move up to intermediate? Just read the notes you left me again and am looking forward to getting back out there and putting it in action.
 

Thirdgen89GTA

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Thank you. No video unfortunately, just data off Harry's Laptimer. It was relatively busy in the advanced group for a LAPS Monday, but got a few good laps in...2:40.71, 2:40.66, 2:40.49 and finally my best of 2:40.27. Most of the other laps all over the 2:4x range.

Definitely learned my lesson in terms of using SRF, but honestly after Monday I am not sure I want to continue tracking the Charger...doing research into a Radical for 2021 :unsure:
Thats a "Radical" departure from a Charger lol. I don't think there is anything on 4 wheels that is more opposite than that.
 

JAhmed

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Thats a "Radical" departure from a Charger lol. I don't think there is anything on 4 wheels that is more opposite than that.
LOLLL true. I ended up trading the Charger in toward a 2021 Supra as a daily, but am still doing research on the Radical for next year! Supra will have to do track duty until then :).
 

sickmint79

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forgot the race team but there's a program to rent them and do the north track? plus there's a race series of members i think there?

i drove one (a different model) in abu dhabi on yas marina.
 
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WhiteKnuckleScat

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Wow, just looked at their website. The radical experience is $2400 for a day. Same to be in a formula light for the day. I’m sure it would be awesome but I’m pretty sure the wife would be pissed If I canceled vacation so I could go driving.
 

sickmint79

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Wow, just looked at their website. The radical experience is $2400 for a day. Same to be in a formula light for the day. I’m sure it would be awesome but I’m pretty sure the wife would be pissed If I canceled vacation so I could go driving.
oof i thought it was $1400 there. never seriously considered. maybe that was a half day and 2400 is full?

drove a radical sr3 for 20 minutes on slightly different layout of yas marina for $450
drove renault clip cup sport 2 laps + formula 3000 for 20 minutes on yas marina for $450

also a kart track in their parking lot
and it's right by ferrari world, which i mostly just did their karts (slick concrete and you need to slip to go fast - if you don't suck you end up giggling while passing normies while you're sideways)
then another sport facility nearby where you can ignore the sports and just do... karting there, 1 mile, elevation changes, faster karts you can pay to drive but must earn them via laptimes

dubai also has single seater car experiences on a fia grade 1 track (but no f1 races) - although the layout is uninteresting in class 1 and i think they rarely do class 2 (i got lucky and got 2nd layout, cuz some rare flooding)
also a couple kart tracks, including indoor and outdoor kartdrome - the latter has rolling starts and full races every race (20+ people)

seeing tall buildings or big malls is not worth going halfway around the world for, i didn't find much interesting to keep me busy during the day or culture or social or whatever wise, and there is absolutely abuse of poor imported workers (filipinos, indians, pakistanis, etc...) - although if you are a car guy looking for driving experiences, fuck is there a lot of cool stuff to do.

in the US i've done dirtfish, which will run $1000 of burn but is pretty fun, and each day gets more connected and better. i did 2 days, would do a 3 day school now. but that's a lot in one go for sure.
 

Phalabala

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As a mental exercise I've been thinking about what might be next for me when/if I tire of my ZLE... What I'm leaning towards is something like the new Radical SR10... https://www.motortrend.com/news/radical-sr10-first-look-track-car-photos/
While the initial purchase cost is really high the running costs should be quite a bit less than I'm currently seeing for my ZLE, even with the rebuild schedule they recommend. Maybe in 5 years or so I'll keep an eye out for one on this side of the pond that has a couple of seasons on it.
 

sickmint79

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why not just grab sr3 if that's what they are racing at autobahn? cheaper to pick up, probably a bunch of known things about it vs. new unknowns, plus you could benchmark your times against others in races there and go participate in them too if you want.
 

Phalabala

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why not just grab sr3 if that's what they are racing at autobahn? cheaper to pick up, probably a bunch of known things about it vs. new unknowns, plus you could benchmark your times against others in races there and go participate in them too if you want.
so number 1, I'm literally 45 minutes into thinking about this and pulling teh trigger is years out, so I suspect the SR10 would be a known quantity by then. ;)

An older (any) Radical would be the cheaper option on acquisition costs but my understanding is the SR10 was specifically designed around not requiring nearly as frequent rebuild-level maintenance vs previous models.
That being said, it would take like probably something like 8 years to break even on the cost of all those rebuilds.

For perspective, I have to start tracking things better using a spreadsheet, but I'm spending about 12-14k/yr in consumables and maintenance (maybe more, again I'm not spreadsheeting it like i should) tracking the ZLE. This will go up if I start running more events.
 

Phalabala

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12-14k in consumables and maintenance oh baby. this is when i'm quite happy to have a 2800 lb car.
In the car's defense, some/much of that cost is labor as I don't trust myself to work on the car. :) ...and I err on the side of safety and replace things too early rather than too late... :)
 

J-LO

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In the car's defense, some/much of that cost is labor as I don't trust myself to work on the car. :) ...and I err on the side of safety and replace things too early rather than too late... :)
i had the motor oil and differential fluid changed after every track day in my vette (per the owners manual)


back in the early 2000s i figured out i was spending north of 20k a year on track days and that was on a motorcycle. when you factor in hotels, fuel, transportation, tires/brakes/fluids/food it all adds up fast.
 
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WhiteKnuckleScat

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Man, I’ve been thinking about my car. I honestly love my charger, I know it’s not what you typically see out there, but I enjoy the car. However, to make it what I really want I’m gonna have to invest some serious cash. I want to put a better oil cooler in it, lots of suspension bits, the big tires are expensive...it would be easier to get a car more suited for the track.
For me though, part of the fun is working on the car. Someday I’m sure this will get old but I dont mind it now.
I’m probably gonna do some upgrades over the winter if the funds are there and go another year with it and then decide if I want to keep it long term. Right now the trade in is really high so I could walk away from it about even (minus what I put into it).
 

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