How Forged Performance screwed a GTR owner out of $250,000

[Fish]

Brother from another mother?

 

[greasy]

This is why you build your own shit to the best of your ability and then you only have yourself to blame for the shit quality.

 

[Donnie]

Forged Performance GT-R Crushes previous Road Atlanta Track Record – Forged Performance News

I'm not here to defend FP, but we do only have one side of the story here and it's from a guy who obviously knows fuckall about modifying cars.

Forged has some pretty nice builds under their belt in the Z and GT-R communities, this wasn't one of them.

What precisely is there to tell from the other side of this story? "No, we did not perform that work. Someone broke into our shop and did it. Repeatedly. Over the course of months upon months."

C'mon. Yes, dude was an utter jackass. But there is no defending the "work" shown in this guy's pictures, along with that of the fellow with the Z.

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

seen it plenty of times when a good tech opens their own shop too much time is devoted elsewhere instead of wrenchin.

ill always just be a "garage"

 

[Vogz]

What precisely is there to tell from the other side of this story? "No, we did not perform that work. Someone broke into our shop and did it. Repeatedly. Over the course of months upon months."

C'mon. Yes, dude was an utter jackass. But there is no defending the "work" shown in this guy's pictures, along with that of the fellow with the Z.

Every shop out there hacks up work and every shop out there misses deadlines, sometimes by a lot.

The "other side" is he refused to take the car back to Forged to let them correct the problems, and instead aired the dirty laundry on a car forum.

Forged never said. "sorry", car is your problem now until he went to a different "competing" shop.

I know lots of guys whom have taken cars to many different shops and sat without their car for over a year only to get a "finished" product that requires multiple return trips to shop.

Should it happen? No. But it's a dirty fact of the industry.

 

[Intel]

Why would he take it back after seeing all of that? With that much time and effort their shouldn't be that much in the way of hackery. There is a big difference between modifying stuff to fit and just making it fit in a hacking way.

I mean they improperly sleeved a motor, couldn't tune it on cobb, didn't return his expensive parts they took off. This isn't one or two things here.

 

[Mike K]

Every shop out there hacks up work and every shop out there misses deadlines, sometimes by a lot.

The "other side" is he refused to take the car back to Forged to let them correct the problems, and instead aired the dirty laundry on a car forum.

Dude come on. If you had experienced what he did would you take your car back and let it disappear again? I certainly wouldn't. Almost everything they told him wasn't true, from build completion dates, to when parts would come in, to how much power the car would make, to how they had to tune it, to how other turbo kits wouldn't have worked for him, etc... I mean the list just goes on and on and then you get the car, it runs like shit and the transmission stops shifting... At that point only a fool would bring the car back to them.

I know lots of guys whom have taken cars to many different shops and sat without their car for over a year only to get a "finished" product that requires multiple return trips to shop.

Two blown engines, a blown transmission and several obviously hacked together components is a lot different than needing to bring the car back to be "finished".

Should it happen? No. But it's a dirty fact of the industry.

Not this kind of work.

 

[Bob Kazamakis]

Forged performance did this all wrong. With 250k of this dudes money they could of shipped it to ams themselves and handed it back to him working flawless and pocketed a bunch of cash for doing basically nothing themselves.

 

[10sec]

 

[Vogz]

Dude come on. If you had experienced what he did would you take your car back and let it disappear again? I certainly wouldn't. Almost everything they told him wasn't true, from build completion dates, to when parts would come in, to how much power the car would make, to how they had to tune it, to how other turbo kits wouldn't have worked for him, etc... I mean the list just goes on and on and then you get the car, it runs like shit and the transmission stops shifting... At that point only a fool would bring the car back to them.

The fact still remains that after the first time he took delivery, he had problems and then refused to give Forged any chance to correct the problems.

The rest is hearsay.

Two blown engines, a blown transmission and several obviously hacked together components is a lot different than needing to bring the car back to be "finished".

You didn't read what I said. I never said they had to bring the car back to the shop to be "finished". They had issues (some with blown motors, others with QC issues, hack job work.) that required return trips to the shop. I have a buddy right now with a 350Z that has been at a local, very respected tuner for over a year for a simple bottom end replacement. This is after his motor blew during break-in (among other problems) after work done at another respected tuner in the area.

Have you ever had your car at a shop for a MAJOR build? Including a rebuilt motor and forced induction addition or upgrade?

If you had, you'd quickly realize that all the YouTube videos of these "flawless" 1000hp tuner cars are a fallacy.

Not this kind of work.

How do you know? There are stories of it all over car forums. Many about shops that have had many happy customers in the past.

At the end of the day, Forged did sub par work and filled this guy's head with "expectations" that weren't met. Yet, this GT-R owner was instrumental in the situation getting as out of hand as it did. His large wallet and lack of automotive knowledge didn't help matters.

 

[Vogz]

Forged performance did this all wrong. With 250k of this dudes money they could of shipped it to ams themselves and handed it back to him working flawless and pocketed a bunch of cash for doing basically nothing themselves.

Lol @ "flawless" No 1000+hp tuner car is anywhere near flawless, no matter what you read in press releases or see on YouTube.

 

[Bob Kazamakis]

Someone is swinging hard from this company.


With an extra $100k left over I'm sure it could be pretty damn flawless and ya know; actually fit and function properly.

 

[Vogz]

Someone is swinging hard from this company.


With an extra $100k left over I'm sure it could be pretty damn flawless and ya know; actually fit and function properly.

What part of "Forged did sub par work and filled this guy's head with expectations that weren't met" do you fail to understand?

That's swinging hard from a company?


The only nut swinging in this thread is from AMS's balls.

 

[Bob Kazamakis]

You seem to have the need to reply to nearly everything posted in here and getting all defensive.

 

[TCG Member 5219]

AMS stands for "all my swingers".

 

[The Broken Regal]

What part of "Forged did sub par work and filled this guy's head with expectations that weren't met" do you fail to understand?

That's swinging hard from a company?


The only nut swinging in this thread is from AMS's balls.

While that makes sense to an outside party... how do you explain where $250k went down the drain? Who is to blame and what is to be done with that?

On top of it the guy has a busted ass car, which sounds like FP has no intent of repaying or refunding him for, let alone get his parts back

How you can defend their actions after the small tidbit of they failed to meet the expectations, is beyond me...

Its all speculation, but those pics don't lie and neither do the time frames of the build

 

[Vogz]

You seem to have the need to reply to nearly everything posted in here and getting all defensive.

I shouldn't be replying to posts that were mostly directed at me?? lol

I'm just trying to provide perspective.

Both parties are at fault here.

 

[IZZy]

they are both morons, in the owners case more money than brains and in the shop's case they were way in over their head.

 

[Vogz]

While that makes sense to an outside party... how do you explain where $250k went down the drain? Who is to blame and what is to be done with that?

On top of it the guy has a busted ass car, which sounds like FP has no intent of repaying or refunding him for, let alone get his parts back

How you can defend their actions after the small tidbit of they failed to meet the expectations, is beyond me...

Its all speculation, but those pics don't lie and neither do the time frames of the build

Where am I defending their actions? Please show me.

All I'm saying is Forged asked him to bring car back so they could make it right, and he didn't.

 

[Bob Kazamakis]

this fucking guy

 

[The Broken Regal]

You are defending their actions of completely screwing this car up by saying the guy should take the car back to them to let them fix it and thinking they will... that is plain dumb to imagine it... by saying let them fix it means YOU think that somehow they will magically get their act together and instead of another 2 years and a 1/4 mil, they will get it right

You are defending their ability as a shop to do anything competent... idk how else to explain it

 

[Bob Kazamakis]

Hacks plain and simple.


And what does "knowing anything about cars" have to do with anything? Isn't that why performance shops exist? So you can pay someone who is supposed to know these things to do what you can't.

Someone can love cars and not know how to work or do anything on them.

 

[Vogz]

I'll just leave this right here.

Sharif's reply to the original thread on GTRlife:

For those that have been patient and allow me to respond, I appreciate it. This is one of the busiest weeks for Forged Performance each year, with both OLOA and ZDAYZ happening over the next two weeks. When I was first informed of this thread by my staff, it was 3 pages long, and in just a few hours it's grown to 12. I advised my staff, customers, and friends to refrain from posting until I've had a chance to post my reply. In addition to reading Boxster's post carefully, I also skimmed through some of the comments. The review jumps around so I will do my best to respond. I will likely need to follow up with additional posts, some pictures and commentary of my own and so forth.

Todd's review is uncharacteristic of the type of work we perform here at Forged, because much of it isn't true and those that have done business with us know this. I started Forged back in 2004, and I've been an active part of the Nissan community for almost a decade. The body of our work and contributions to the community speaks for itself. We have almost 5000 happy customers and we continue to improve our level of service and performance each year. I acknowledge that we make mistakes from time to time but we are quick to make things right to the best of our ability. In areas where we've fallen short, I'll do whatever it takes to insure that our customers are happy. Clearly, Todd points out some areas where we have done a poor job. Those who performed this work are no longer working at Forged.

Unfortunately in this case with Todd, instead of allowing us to address every one of his concerns and issues at no charge, he elected to take his car to another shop. Not just any shop, but a shop with extreme animosity towards Forged Performance due to a employee/employer litigation that is still going. He then demanded a refund. If I didn't give him a refund, he told me it would get "ugly"...his words...not mine. He told me he would write a negative review and discredit me and my company. Since I don't negotiate when someone threatens me, I find myself here on the the public forums to share my side of this story. It's important that you all understand the context and some of the back-story that precipitated this post. First, Todd did not personally write this review. Someone wrote it on his behalf so let me clarify some of the missed points.

First, Todd did NOT spend $250K on this build. He has spent $250K with Forged over the past 4 years including 3 different builds, plus a couple sets of wheels, and tons of misc parts over the past FOUR years.

It's been said several times, that Todd's car took 22 months to complete. What he failed to point out, is that more than half of this delay was related to decisions that Todd made on the build plan for his car and changes that were made as we progressed. Cars that come to Forged with a defined and straightforward build plan are in and out very quickly. We preorder parts, segregate space in the shop and production calendar in order to minimize the turnaround time. But in the case of Todd's build, there was a constant stop/start process and parts changes and new directions that were initiated by the CUSTOMER...not by Forged. For instance, Todds car was up and running last summer. But after talking things over with Todd, he decided to wait on the Motec which we were told was just a few weeks out. I never said that a Motec is required, as I'd already tuned numerous cars into the 1000hp range with the Cobb AP. But MoTec offered some key features that Todd wanted and I was excited to tune the car with it. Ultimately, the decision is made by the customer, and we should not be blamed for that 6 month delay.

After building and tuning the car with the GT800 kit, Todd made the decision to have us build the engine, transmission and upgrade his turbos. After a few weeks went by, he then decided he wanted to go for REALLY big power. Keep in mind this was after we already sent the turbos off for upgrading which caused another 3 month delay. When we got the upgraded GT800 turbos back, then Todd changed his mind again and decided he wanted a turbo kit capable of 1200-1300whp with room to grow. When we discussed turbo kit options, the only other big turbo options were the Alpha 12, and the Boost Logic kits. (ETS big kits were not on the market back then). We determined that the Jun kit was the largest turbo kit currently available, running the big full size GTX35. Alpha 12 and Boost logic were on backorder several weeks, so we ordered the Jun kit. The Jun kit arrives and we wrap up Todd's engine. As we start unpacking and installing the turbo kit, we quickly realize that the kit is designed for a RHD GT-R. I immediately call Junichi at Jun, and he apologizes and said we can send the kit back for a refund. After I update Todd, I tell him we have a few options including returning the kit. But Todd didn't want wait for several more weeks until we could get a BL or AMS kit. So I told him we could modify the kit to fit a LHD car. He understood this would require quite a bit of additional labor (which I discounted by 50%), and would require permanent modifications to the kit and car. In the pictures he posted, BTW, those spacers on the exhaust and the chassis brace are NOT needed and were mistakenly left on the car during the mock-up stages.

The next point I want to address is the transmission. The transmission we built for him did not fail due to anything we did improperly. Todd's transmission broke due to a defective 4th gear, according to Todd himself. The manufacturer has agreed to supply a new gear. In fact over the phone, he said that he can't blame Forged for the transmission so I am curious why he is bringing this up on the thread.. I am sure something probably got lost in translation when the third part wrote this review. The clutches were installed correctly, as were the piston seals. The Promax clutch case can back out under loads so we apply a couple of spot welds to prevent this from happening. Dodson has since resigned the Promax seal threads so this process doesn't need to be done anymore.

With respect the engine build, yes, the first engine spun a bearing prior to delivery. The person who assembled that engine no longer works for Forged, and we see this as a good thing. The spun bearing was determined to be a combination of slightly tighter bearing clearances than we spec out, and lack of oil priming. All of our engines are primed with oil before we ever start the engine. This process was not done on your first engine. With regards to your first and second engine, the pistons were installed correctly. Perhaps your current shop should contact Arias so they can understand which way those arrows should face. I am in the process of inspecting your block, and I can assure you they are installed correctly. Todd was told that the oil pan was full of metal. I told Todd that is not possible as we changed the oil and cut open his oil filter before and after tuning which is our standard practice. Although I am not completely done with the short block inspection, there appears to be no signs of metal in the oil whatsoever. Yes, the sleeves have shifted and I will have the root cause of this in a few days. We stand behind our engines so if a machining error was made this will be addressed. To keep things moving, I have already provided a brand new OEM block and crank to Todd's current shop at no charge. If those of you reading this thread think that engines don't occasionally fail at other shops, you should think again. It's extremely rare, but it can happen. I think our engine track record both stock and built, is among the best in the industry. But I am trying to understand why Todd would tell me that his current shop said that the oil pan was "full of metal" when we see no signs at all of metal on this engine. His shop also performed a compression and leakdown test prior to engine removal and the engine checked out healthy.

Finally here is the email I sent Todd, even after he threatened to "go public" with his story.


Todd, we expect our customers to allow us to address any issues they may have with their car. This is a fundamental expectation that customers have with their tuning shop, and vice versa. If you have lost faith in us, that is your choice, but I cannot reimburse you for a complete turbo kit because you have changed your mind or want someone else to work on your car. You knew all throughout the process, that significant modifications would be needed to be made to make the kit fit a LHD drive car. The reason we used this kit, is because there were no other kits on the market that would meet your goals for power at the time we ordered the kit. Boost logic was months out, ETS wasn’t even making kits this large, Alpha 12 was too small [for the future power levels Todd wanted]. Yes, today, there are plenty of options, but that was not the case more than a year ago. You agreed with this process and were kept well informed as we proceeded. And I covered more than half of the costs associated with modifying the kit to fit. It made almost 1050whp on E85 at very mild boost levels.

I have always made every effort to provide excellent support and customer service. We talked and texted literally on a daily and sometimes hourly basis over the past few years. I cannot change how you feel about our work…I’ve already tried that. Regrettably, you have threatened to go public with some photos and your experience if I don’t return your turbo kit. I don’t like to be threatened or lied to, and you’ve done both. You assisted one of our competitors by providing confidential emails and other information that could use used to harm my company in a separate legal action unrelated to you. This does not sound like a customer or a friend that is trying to work towards a good-will resolution. I will use all resources possible to defend my company name and reputation that I have worked hard for 8 years to create. I would urge you to reconsider and let’s come up with a reasonable solution for this and move forward.

It doesn't go unnoticed that most of the people posting in Todd's thread have already made up their minds. But hopefully those that have an open mind, will see that standing behind work, requires the cooperation of the customer as well, and people working in good faith to come to a resolution. Unfortunately, Todd has decided to go a different direction. I even offered to address all issues and pay for a third party inspection when we were done. I will do my best to answer any legitimate questions posed. I hope we can all have cool heads and have a civilized discussion about this rather than personal attacks on me, and the company I've spent almost a decade building.

Forged Performance: The Truth ! - Vendor Reviews - GT-R Life

 

[Vogz]

Hacks plain and simple.


And what does "knowing anything about cars" have to do with anything? Isn't that why performance shops exist? So you can pay someone who is supposed to know these things to do what you can't.

Someone can love cars and not know how to work or do anything on them.

If you want a 1000hp tuner car and think you can live with it without knowing jack about the car other than how to drive it, you'll be in for a rude awakening.

 

[Vogz]

You are defending their actions of completely screwing this car up by saying the guy should take the car back to them to let them fix it and thinking they will... that is plain dumb to imagine it... by saying let them fix it means YOU think that somehow they will magically get their act together and instead of another 2 years and a 1/4 mil, they will get it right

You are defending their ability as a shop to do anything competent... idk how else to explain it

Read the reply above.