Ford MOD motors take 1,2,3 at the Engine Masters

[wolfe]

No, the only way to get the 4.6 to make power is to rev it to the moon. To take advantage of the large ports. Normally a 4.6 gets cams and headers and reves to 8,000-8,500 to make good power. They lack the stroke & cubes to produce torque and horse power. That is where these engines show "what can be". Someone just needs to come to market with cost effective stroker cranks for more builds like these.



Again, if you could get a $500 stroker crank like you can for a SBF, SBC or LS1 you would see plenty of guys making bigger power with the MOD motor. And you have to remember, the power and torque get divided by the cubes. So a large inch BB could make 1,000 hp, but in the competition those cubes would kill the score. If you looked at the other motors in this competition you will see these three motors were also the smallest in the competition. Size has a lot to do with it.

I think that's why someone was saying this contest is designed for the mod motors, because being smaller helps you with the score. I will say it is way harder to do with less cubes and give them a ton of credit for doing so. And where are you finding $500 stroker cranks? I'll take one.

 

[wolfe]

Id like to see what kaase or accufab could do with a 2v

Use it as a boat anchor

 

[Yaj Yak]

I think that's why someone was saying this contest is designed for the mod motors, because being smaller helps you with the score. I will say it is way harder to do with less cubes and give them a ton of credit for doing so. And where are you finding $500 stroker cranks? I'll take one.

exactly. which to me still, as we have talked before, remains a meaningless way imo to compare engines... it's like comparing the colors of cars in a funny car class to determine who is going to win.

 

[Pressure Ratio]

Another part of the issue is a lack of intakes for these motors. They either make ok midrange or make good power at 8,000. Average power is hard to make with these motors, especially in a 4.6 size motor.

Another issue is the narrow width between the intake runners. You are limited on the intake runner design. The 3v and Coyote have much better intake choices and wider intake port spacing.

 

[wolfe]

exactly. which to me still, as we have talked before, remains a meaningless way imo to compare engines... it's like comparing the colors of cars in a funny car class to determine who is going to win.

It is a good way to compare motors, especially NA. A motor is a large air pump, the bigger the pump the more power it can make. It's harder to do it with a smaller motor that is for sure. The mod motors do have amazing heads and lots of valves that help with that though.

 

[Yaj Yak]

but why. just because it is harder doesn't make it cooler

the mod motors are also the size of a volkswagen exterior-wise

 

[Pressure Ratio]

I think that's why someone was saying this contest is designed for the mod motors, because being smaller helps you with the score. I will say it is way harder to do with less cubes and give them a ton of credit for doing so. And where are you finding $500 stroker cranks? I'll take one.

If you can run any crank in the motors why is it designed around the mod motors? LS motors come from the factory in 4.8 & 5.3 and 5.7 displacements. All smaller than the 401 cid the ford mod motors were. So why is it geared towards a MOD motor again?

exactly. which to me still, as we have talked before, remains a meaningless way imo to compare engines... it's like comparing the colors of cars in a funny car class to determine who is going to win.

If any engine could use any CID they want how does that make the competition geared towards the ford mod motor?

It is about assembling the best combo to make the best score possible. Period. It just so happens the top three teams did it with Ford 4v motors. Some of the teams had more than one motor in the competition. They obviously did not score as well.

 

[Yaj Yak]

I dunno, don't get me wrong, it is impressive as fuck for that small of a motor to make that sort of power n/a without a doubt... but the contest definitely goes against big small block lsx stuff just because of the cubes portion. a 7.4l lsx is already down significantly because of the formula they use to decide the winner.

 

[Wild White Pony]

The 3v mod 4.6 makes power well in the mid-range and upper range, but it suffers from low torque. 5-6k power and torque are peaking, under 5k and over 6k the torque falls off quickly. Makes alot of steam though with the right cams and heads well into the 7k+ range. Even with turbo's on a 4.6 3v mod I've seen the torque peak quickly and fall fast.

 

[Yaj Yak]

If any engine could use any CID they want how does that make the competition geared towards the ford mod motor?

of course you can use any CID but this part right here really gears against it...

It takes the average HP plus average TQ, then divides it by the engines cubic inchs and multiply that by 1000

 

[wolfe]

If you can run any crank in the motors why is it designed around the mod motors? LS motors come from the factory in 4.8 & 5.3 and 5.7 displacements. All smaller than the 401 cid the ford mod motors were. So why is it geared towards a MOD motor again?
.

Those motors, with the exception of the 4.8 use the same crank. I'm just saying that the way the numbers for competition are figured being smaller helps you. I didn't say that it was geared for it, I said with that I think that's why someone else said it.

 

[Yaj Yak]

Those motors, with the exception of the 4.8 use the same crank. I'm just saying that the way the numbers for competition are figured being smaller helps you. I didn't say that it was geared for it, I said with that I think that's why someone else said it.

that part is what I am saying.

 

[Pressure Ratio]

I dunno, don't get me wrong, it is impressive as fuck for that small of a motor to make that sort of power n/a without a doubt... but the contest definitely goes against big small block lsx stuff just because of the cubes portion. a 7.4l lsx is already down significantly because of the formula they use to decide the winner.

Build a 400 cid lsx and what would it do? Again, the Kaase mod motor made the best score run and average of 3 runs since the competition started. It beat any other engine that ever competed. Next time they compete against a LS motor and the LS motor wins. It is what competition is all about. Being you can run any size engine you want it is the engine builders choice on what size he thinks will make the best score. Trust me, these teams do a lot of testing over the time from when the rules are released until they are on the dyno at the challenge. Don't blame motors, blame the teams who pick the combos, build and tune them.

 

[Yaj Yak]

do you work for them or soemthing?

I'm just saying the entire competition while incredibly impressive what results from it... is just sort of meh to me.

 

[greasy]

but why. just because it is harder doesn't make it cooler

the mod motors are also the size of a volkswagen exterior-wise

Hi, my name is KJ and I have no clue what Iam talking about......

LS1

Engine Dimensions

4.6 Mod Motor

Ford modular SOHC & DOHC tech & specifications

4.6L DOHC Cobra Intake A: 27 1/8" B: 23 5/8" C: 26 5/8"

 

[Yaj Yak]

and if you also noticed, I'm not blaming the motors whatsoever... I'm blaming the formula which decides the winner.

 

[Pressure Ratio]

of course you can use any CID but this part right here really gears against it...

Again, they could choose to run less cubes to take advantage of the score. But at what point does less cubes help in the formula versus producing less power on the dyno which hurts the formula as well>

 

[Wild White Pony]

and if you also noticed, I'm not blaming the motors whatsoever... I'm blaming the formula which decides the winner.

You can win this... just tell to take to the track and prove your so good. Dyno queens rule...

 

[Yaj Yak]

Again, they could choose to run less cubes to take advantage of the score. But at what point does less cubes help in the formula versus producing less power on the dyno which hurts the formula as well>

I see what you are saying there as well for sure... and with that I assume you get what I am getting at.

No one will try an all out stupid huge lsx build because the slight margin it may be better than the mod motor is not in the cards to win the competition from the formula

You can win this... just tell to take to the track and prove your so good.

I have no idea what you just said.

 

[Pressure Ratio]

and if you also noticed, I'm not blaming the motors whatsoever... I'm blaming the formula which decides the winner.

The formula does not decide the winner. lmao The best engine that can make the best score using the formula wins. Period. No matter what make of engine.

Build a 302" LS motor and see how it does. Do you think it will produce enough HP/TQ to score higher than the 401" mod motor did? It's smaller, it should win by your account as it is 100 cubes smaller.

 

[wolfe]

and if you also noticed, I'm not blaming the motors whatsoever... I'm blaming the formula which decides the winner.

just blame the government, it's what all the cool kids are doing

 

[Yaj Yak]

The formula does not decide the winner. lmao The best engine that can make the best score using the formula wins. Period. No matter what make of engine.

Build a 302" LS motor and see how it does. Do you think it will produce enough HP/TQ to score higher than the 401" mod motor did? It's smaller, it should win by your account as it is 100 cubes smaller.

not at all what I am saying

how can you argue the formula does not decide the winner, and then say the engine making the best score using the formula wins

redundant department of redundant redundancy

 

[Pressure Ratio]

I see what you are saying there as well for sure... and with that I assume you get what I am getting at.

No one will try an all out stupid huge lsx build because the slight margin it may be better than the mod motor is not in the cards to win the competition from the formula



I have no idea what you just said.

I kind of see what you are saying. But with a 7000 rpm limit a small motor is not going to produce the torque and power needed to score well. No matter how small it is.

And most motors were over 430" in the competition. Some scored better than others.

just blame the government, it's what all the cool kids are doing

Thanks Obama!

 

[Yaj Yak]

I kind of see what you are saying. But with a 7000 rpm limit a small motor is not going to produce the torque and power needed to score well. No matter how small it is.

And most motors were over 430" in the competition. Some scored better than others.



Thanks Obama!

gotchya.

 

[Pressure Ratio]

not at all what I am saying

how can you argue the formula does not decide the winner, and then say the engine making the best score using the formula wins

redundant department of redundant redundancy

You say the CID part of the formula dictates the winner. The power and torque numbers have a lot to do with the score.