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Old 02-26-2018, 10:28 AM   #1
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Default Direct Injection - The ins and outs

Solid vid.

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Old 02-26-2018, 11:18 AM   #2
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Interesting for sure. I sprayed a can of seafoam in my intake at 40k and will do it as it gets closer to 80k. Now I wonder if I'm just waisting time. I also run a bottle of seafoam in the gas tank ever 5k. I'll keep that up.
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Old 02-26-2018, 12:31 PM   #3
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Would installing a catch can help and make a big difference??
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Old 02-26-2018, 12:41 PM   #4
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Would installing a catch can help and make a big difference??
I viewed this as I really didn't want to change what GM designed. I figure their engineers know more than me and if they wanted to add a catch can that they can charge me to empty they'd do it. So I never installed one. This video makes me feel like I should have
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Old 02-26-2018, 02:14 PM   #5
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Would installing a catch can help and make a big difference??
Yes and no. It'll mitigate the issue, but won't stop it. It seems to just delay the inevitable.

Chemicals can help, but some manufacturers discourage it, as it'll loosen up chunks that could end up going through the engine and or turbo.

Meth injection seems to help prevent. But dual fueling seems to be the best overall solution.

The go to/safest way to clean up existing carboned up runners, is media blasting service.
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Old 02-26-2018, 04:00 PM   #6
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Someone find me a shop that does media blasting service
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Old 02-26-2018, 04:04 PM   #7
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Ok I'm not watching a 19 min video on a subject that's been in my industry since forever...

But what is this catch can shit you gheys are talking about
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Old 02-26-2018, 04:10 PM   #8
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Ok I'm not watching a 19 min video on a subject that's been in my industry since forever...

But what is this catch can shit you gheys are talking about
Basically it's a can that's inbetween the PCV and intake that'll take the oil/gas vapor and trap it in the can to be drained later. There's a few different designs; baffles, steel wool, etc., but the basic chase is trapping and condensing the vapor before it goes back into the intake. All the PCV does is pass along the vapor into the intake, and will build as carbon up along the valves and intake runners on DI motors.
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Old 02-26-2018, 04:20 PM   #9
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Lmao. Once again we've been doing this for years... We just have a line that drains it back to the crank case.

Have you guys heard about these things called piston cooling jets too?

Yea diesels had that forever toos.
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Old 02-26-2018, 04:24 PM   #10
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Lmao. Once again we've been doing this for years... We just have a line that drains it back to the crank case.

Have you guys heard about these things called piston cooling jets too?

Yea diesels had that forever toos.
Maybe they're worried about the gas vapor getting into the oil and self immolating? No idea, just a thought.

Some cars have cooling jets, but seems like it's mostly high performance cars. Added expense that they don't see to want to add maybe.
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Old 02-26-2018, 05:00 PM   #11
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Yes and no. It'll mitigate the issue, but won't stop it. It seems to just delay the inevitable.

Chemicals can help, but some manufacturers discourage it, as it'll loosen up chunks that could end up going through the engine and or turbo.

Meth injection seems to help prevent. But dual fueling seems to be the best overall solution.

The go to/safest way to clean up existing carboned up runners, is media blasting service.
There’s a lot of information that would disagree on Camaro6.com

The aftermarket catch can will keep the engine cleaner, longer

But some asshole dealers deny any warranty claims if it’s installed
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Old 02-26-2018, 05:10 PM   #12
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I don't think that it was a matter of gas engines now utilizing a technology that diesels have had for ages, it's just a matter of as new engine families are developed by manufacturer, they're taking advantage of these new features. In theory, the closer you can get the injector to the combustion chamber the more precise you can be with A/F ratios resulting be better power as well as cleaner emissions and better fuel economy from that better control over the process. I mean, think about the process for fuel delivery over the years.

- Carburetor where fuel is dumped into a device mixing incoming air, allowing for atomization, but a long distance away from the end consumer... The combustion chamber.
- Then came TBI. Similar to the carb, now you just introduced the fuel via injector for greater precision/control.
- Then came Port Fuel injection (sequential, multi-port, central port) that moved the injectors down the line, right near the intake port.
Now you have Direct Injection.

As to catch cans and what not, there is a common misconception that any oil, vapor or carbon is bad and not wanted. That is actually untrue. A small amount of this is actually GOOD for your engine and emissions/driveability. Think EGR systems, which tend to commonly let oil back into the intake... They do this by recirculating a small portion of exhaust gasses back into the engine, which contain oil, vapor, etc... In this process it reduces nitrogen oxide and can slightly reduce the need for extra fuel to be sprayed on the intake side.

Now if you're dumping your catch can on a daily basis and pouring out 3 quarts of oil and crud, there's a problem. But small amounts, no. You're actually hurting the process trapping it and removing it from the process.
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Old 02-26-2018, 08:02 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by cmntmxr57 View Post

As to catch cans and what not, there is a common misconception that any oil, vapor or carbon is bad and not wanted. That is actually untrue. A small amount of this is actually GOOD for your engine and emissions/driveability. Think EGR systems, which tend to commonly let oil back into the intake... They do this by recirculating a small portion of exhaust gasses back into the engine, which contain oil, vapor, etc... In this process it reduces nitrogen oxide and can slightly reduce the need for extra fuel to be sprayed on the intake side.

Now if you're dumping your catch can on a daily basis and pouring out 3 quarts of oil and crud, there's a problem. But small amounts, no. You're actually hurting the process trapping it and removing it from the process.
Next time I drop a scope down my intake, you tell me if that small amount of vapor passing back through are good, especially in the long term...mine were worse than what was shown in the video, and is a common problem on Gen 1 EcoBooost engines, VAG 2.0 turbos, BMW turbo I6ís, and a few others. By building THAT much carbon around the runners and valves, any driveability and emissions gains are completely negated.
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Old 02-26-2018, 08:10 PM   #14
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Thereís a lot of information that would disagree on Camaro6.com

The aftermarket catch can will keep the engine cleaner, longer

But some asshole dealers deny any warranty claims if itís installed
Like I said, it helps, but only delays things. Unless you have a long term way of regularly cleaning the intake runners and valves will start to build up. Depending on the quality of catch can too. Throw a shitty catch can on, and most of the crap is going to get through, put a decent one on, and less will. But some always will and itís going to build up.

Whatís the consensus on camaro6? I come from the turbo DI realm, so things may be a bit different
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Old 02-26-2018, 08:13 PM   #15
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Well, for what it's worth, certains Cummins have a special coating internally on the EGR side of things that's supposed to help keep the surface slick to avoid carboning up... It doesn't work great on these trucks, but I bet on gassers it would work amazing....

BG also has intake cleaning products that clean intakes and valves, it's an actual system, not an additive.
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Old 02-26-2018, 08:21 PM   #16
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Ford has come out and said that the BG service is no good on the EcoBoosts because of the danger of it loosening chunks that would eventually make their way through the turbos. There are some EcoBoost guys that swear by it though.
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Old 02-26-2018, 08:26 PM   #17
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Well you have to do it regularly and you can't start it after the engines carboned over.

I use to do it alot when the 6.0s we're newer but it's a hard sell nowadays. It did both egr and intake cleaning.
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Old 02-26-2018, 08:33 PM   #18
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Most people aren’t proactive enough to do it before it becomes a problem. Once you start with the loss in power, missing, rough idle, you’re passed the point of chemical treatment.

As an FYI Fords “fix” is that if it’s bad enough, they replace the heads...no cleaning or or media service, just full on replacement...
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Old 02-26-2018, 08:49 PM   #19
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Less liability. I completely understand it.

I don't clean intakes on 6.7s. they get replaced
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Old 02-26-2018, 08:53 PM   #20
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Less liability. I completely understand it.

I don't clean intakes on 6.7s. they get replaced
Find me someone to do walnut shell media blasting service
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Old 02-26-2018, 08:59 PM   #21
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I do glass.
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Old 02-26-2018, 09:01 PM   #22
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I don’t care if you use mouse turds, as long as it works
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Old 02-26-2018, 09:02 PM   #23
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Lmao.

We have plenty of those in our lunch room
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Old 02-26-2018, 09:07 PM   #24
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So you’re doing the intake runner cleaning for me with glass?
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Old 02-26-2018, 09:11 PM   #25
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Show me pics of it
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