Guys/Gals who currently or about to get car serviced at a dealership

[Chet Donnelly]

I don't necessarily have an issue with private sector unions; if people want to join them and companies want to employ union workers then have at it. Public sector unions are a straight up scam!

What I don't get...is why would any private sector company deal with a union? If I owned a car dealership there is no way I'd have the union in my shop. I'd pay the workers fair/competitive wages and offer fair/competitive benefits, and make it so the employees didn't feel a need to join a union. This way when some loser made their way in the door, I could fire them in the blink of an eye without worrying about arbitration and such.

 

[Rent Free]

Not really union but sort of related ask seattle how that inflated minimum wage change is going.

So if that increase is actually hurting them the same could happen with the union.

Drive the wages up high enough they will actually lose jobs and be replaced by robots...

 

[DEEZUZ]

I agree with 40 hr guarantee... But $15.50 for lube Tech's... Come on

 

[SloTBSS]

I agree with 40 hr guarantee... But $15.50 for lube Tech's... Come on

Yeah, that's a lot to pay a luber that's just gonna leave a tire loose.

We're a busy shop so 40 guarantee doesn't affect us as much but it would be a nice fall back for a bad week.

 

[CMNTMXR57]

If you're a dealership service department, you should never be "slow"

I was always busy and I was doing it nights when ours had night hours. If we were busy, the day was even busier... I was non-union BTW.

I had a healthy balance of simple things like PDI's, even a random oil change, or check on something that sounded wonky, up to something more involved (engine, trans, driveline replacement, fuel pumps, ABS system modulators, yada, yada). You had two stalls, so one could be tied up with the bigger project, while you kept the line moving in your other stall with the smaller things.

Since 99% of our stuff was GM warranty paid items, I got paid book time. If a job took me 2 hours, and I got it done in an hour, I benefited. If it went the other way, I took it on the chin. Hence why having that mix of work was essential because there was always something that didn't go the way it was allotted.

 

[cdh027]

Does anyone know if Don McCue Chevy in St. Charles is union?

 

[SloTBSS]

Does anyone know if Don McCue Chevy in St. Charles is union?

I just went thru the list and didn't see them on the invite list to vote. Probably not.

 

[CMNTMXR57]

That was where I was at (years ago), so no.

 

[cdh027]

Thanks for the replies. I was sweating it for a bit.

 

[rocco]

The point is dont let the unions make you think you are irreplaceable........

Obviously this is 2 different cases thats why i said good luck and hope it doesnt go to strike.

Well, techs are close to being irreplaceable and cannot be replaced overnight. There is already a huge shortage of techs. I'm talking about actual people that can diagnose and fix cars, not parts changers, not UTI grads.

Most dealers are filled with older guys sick of the business and it's shitty pay. There aren't a whole lot of younger guys getting into the trade and the few that stick with it will still take years to get up to speed.

Both the dealers and manufacturers are fucking themselves over by not paying the techs properly. The day is coming soon when they will regret that. That is an absolute fact.

 

[Rent Free]

Well, techs are close to being irreplaceable and cannot be replaced overnight. There is already a huge shortage of techs. I'm talking about actual people that can diagnose and fix cars, not parts changers, not UTI grads.

Most dealers are filled with older guys sick of the business and it's shitty pay. There aren't a whole lot of younger guys getting into the trade and the few that stick with it will still take years to get up to speed.

Both the dealers and manufacturers are fucking themselves over by not paying the techs properly. The day is coming soon when they will regret that. That is an absolute fact.

Agreed the days of the little shady tree mechanic shop are numbered everything will require dealership service. I dont dispute that but it will just end up being auto manufacturer/dealership non union run service departments.

 

[CMNTMXR57]

Here's the flip side of it though. You don't NEED to be much more than a parts changer anymore.

Why? The manufacturer lays out every possibility in detailed troubleshooting tree, with details on wiring, pin outs, symtom lists, yada, yada. Then most components are "modular" and "R&R" (Remove and Replace). You follow the list for whatever the issue is, lets say you trace it a bad ignition module... You don't take an ignition module back to your bench and start rebuilding it. You walk into parts, give them the VIN# (or service ticket), they handle the rest and give you a new module. You go back, plug the module in, verify that it's working, clear codes and move on.

After you've done it awhile, yes, you learn the ins/outs of certain things. Someone would have a P0410 or something and many times, you just knew what the problem was and zero in on it. Again experience, I get it.

I worked with all those guys mentioned above. The cranky old asshole who hates life and everything/everyone breathing around him. The guy who follows the book and every letter (GM in my case), puts down. No deviation. You had the guy who was an alcoholic/pot smoker, etc. Then you had people that quickly learned how to manipulate the systems and GM confines. One of the first things I mastered outside of turning the wrenches, was working around the Reynold's and Reynold's system (what we had at the time), and how to mask how you were coding stuff to not flag GM's warranty police when the situation occured, to help a customer out.

I'm not saying that there isn't the need for a competent, intelligent tech out there as their is, but more and more, things are becoming P-n-P. This isn't the days of manually setting timing with a light, setting dwell, jets on carbs, etc, and having that familiarity with what you were working on and where it took a specific "touch" to get it just right.

I will also say, we had regular "hoppers". They'd spend a couple months in our service, then get terminated for something or leave on their own, and be at the Chrysler dealer next door two days later and vice versa.

 

[Nate]

pratt 701 hasn't been on strike since 1994.

Of course this thread was going to get some anti-union rhetoric.
That competitive pay you guys speak of-you can thank a union
Non-union techs: well if we get a raise, you'll probably get one to-you know to stay "competitive" so you're welcome.

You guys like your weekends off, fair wages, and your kids not working for shindlings? Well that's all thanks to unions too.

They may be past their time, and yes the economy does dictate things as we accepted a shit contract 4 years ago because the economy.

To have a valid opinion of this situation one would have had to work in this industry over the last few contracts. I don't think anything that has been said has been wrong. It's just hard to draw a conclusion without experiencing it first hand.

Striking isn't fun. Nobody is going to win. Customers leave, the 300 dollar a week strike pay to be out here 6 days a week, for 14 hours sucks. But it is what it is.

 

[Pressure Ratio]

Striking isn't fun. Nobody is going to win. Customers leave, the 300 dollar a week strike pay to be out here 6 days a week, for 14 hours sucks. But it is what it is.

So the shops you work for have to give you a fair and competitive wage. But the union gets to pay you $3.57 an hour for those 84 hours work weeks. And you pay the union every paycheck? Tell me more about these unions. Seems legit!



Just so everyone knows, Nate and I have discussed the pros and cons of unions many times. Just busting his balls for being unhappy about his having to work for the union slave wages. lmao

 

[Nate]

No part of our monthly dues go into what is called the strike fund. That's where that money comes from. If you compare our wages to that of an electrician or plumber we rank the lowest. Most of us also have 60-100k vested in tools as well

 

[Lord Tin Foilhat]

Fuck Unions. So many members are a bunch of babies if a non Union shop comes in and can do the same work cheaper....

Unions just expect the work to always be there and always be for them...welll thats not a free market fuckers so stay competetive or lose work. Tough shit.

 

[LikeABauce302]

Good to know. I was actually going to try to take my Mustang in tonight to have the airbag recall done this week.

 

[Pressure Ratio]

No part of our monthly dues go into what is called the strike fund. That's where that money comes from. If you compare our wages to that of an electrician or plumber we rank the lowest. Most of us also have 60-100k vested in tools as well

So basically the union lets you pay yourself to work for them? Brilliant! hahaha

 

[Grabber]

Fuck Unions. So many members are a bunch of babies if a non Union shop comes in and can do the same work cheaper....

Unions just expect the work to always be there and always be for them...welll thats not a free market fuckers so stay competetive or lose work. Tough shit.

I agree.

Hard work gets you farther than bitching and moaning about how little work you have or how much you get paid to do said work.

 

[blakbearddelite]

Don't even get me started on their bloated pension costs.

 

[Bitter]

I think I can't agree with no skill needed and everything is plug n play. I work at an independent shop and we service from a 1967 Caddy drop top to a 2010 Nissan Rogue and I have to know how to work on all those and what's in between. Yes, flow charts help but only to a point. Not every problem setting an engine light is on a flow chart. Had a P0101 on that Rogue, MAF checked out ok, turned out to be a dirty throttle body causing the idle to drop too low when it closed. Computer saw a momentary drop below minimum reading for the MAF given the other engine conditions and flipped that code for a part that wasn't bad when the problem lies elsewhere. Dirty throttle body and low idle were not part of the trouble tree flow chart. It takes intuition to trouble shoot, not just following a chart every time.


Snapon guy wasn't happy to hear about the strike at all.

 

[rocco]

Here's the flip side of it though. You don't NEED to be much more than a parts changer anymore.

Why? The manufacturer lays out every possibility in detailed troubleshooting tree, with details on wiring, pin outs, symtom lists, yada, yada. Then most components are "modular" and "R&R" (Remove and Replace). You follow the list for whatever the issue is, lets say you trace it a bad ignition module... You don't take an ignition module back to your bench and start rebuilding it. You walk into parts, give them the VIN# (or service ticket), they handle the rest and give you a new module. You go back, plug the module in, verify that it's working, clear codes and move on.

After you've done it awhile, yes, you learn the ins/outs of certain things. Someone would have a P0410 or something and many times, you just knew what the problem was and zero in on it. Again experience, I get it.

I worked with all those guys mentioned above. The cranky old asshole who hates life and everything/everyone breathing around him. The guy who follows the book and every letter (GM in my case), puts down. No deviation. You had the guy who was an alcoholic/pot smoker, etc. Then you had people that quickly learned how to manipulate the systems and GM confines. One of the first things I mastered outside of turning the wrenches, was working around the Reynold's and Reynold's system (what we had at the time), and how to mask how you were coding stuff to not flag GM's warranty police when the situation occured, to help a customer out.

I'm not saying that there isn't the need for a competent, intelligent tech out there as their is, but more and more, things are becoming P-n-P. This isn't the days of manually setting timing with a light, setting dwell, jets on carbs, etc, and having that familiarity with what you were working on and where it took a specific "touch" to get it just right.

I will also say, we had regular "hoppers". They'd spend a couple months in our service, then get terminated for something or leave on their own, and be at the Chrysler dealer next door two days later and vice versa.

Complete and utter bullshit. You sound like one of our disposable service writers. This couldn't be farther from the truth, especially for a dealer tech. Anyone who thinks differently, doesn't have the knowledge or experience of a dealer tech. Or they haven't been around long enough to be trusted to work on the real jobs. It's not as easy as following a diagnostic flow chart and replacing parts, I wish it were as simple than that.

I see stuff on a daily basis that cannot be fixed by replacing parts or following a flow chart, and have stuff towed in from other shops who can't fix what we can. Not because we have better equipment or resources, but because we're the best at what we do and have years of experience doing so.

A few examples. A 16 Colorado with an intermittent service 4WD message, comes on maybe once a week. No amount of parts replacing on the world would have fixed it. The cause was one loose terminal going into the TCCM module on the connector side of the harness. Good luck finding that, let alone getting to the connector and testing it buried near the firewall.

How about a 17 Equinox that loses communication with multiple modules causing a no start intermittently. Again, another wiring issue that I won't get into detail but no amount of parts changing or flow charts will fix this.

I could give a million other examples on almost a daily basis.

You can't guess and throw parts at these cars because, 1. There are so many specific parts that the parts department doesn't stock most of them. 2. If you guess and throw parts at it, who's going to pay for it? If it under warranty good luck at getting GM to pay for it, especially if it's multiple parts. They'll kick it back to the dealer and refuse to pay if it looks like excessive parts. If it's customer pay, good luck explaining to the customer that you're guessing and throwing hundreds if not thousands of dollars at their car, which may or may not fix it.

 

[rocco]

Fuck Unions. So many members are a bunch of babies if a non Union shop comes in and can do the same work cheaper....

Unions just expect the work to always be there and always be for them...welll thats not a free market fuckers so stay competetive or lose work. Tough shit.

It's not really about that. It's about being paid fairly for a skilled trade. It doesn't make sense on average that good auto techs make much less than electricians, pipe fitters, plumbers, etc.

Does a .40 cent raise sound fair to you for any skilled job?

 

[guspech750]

Wha wha wha.

Usually those that cry the most are the one not in a union. LOLzzzz

Most everyone who is anti union will give free reach arounds to their favorite football players, basketball players etc etc or bow down and kiss the ground the police and fireman walk on who are all in unions. But as soon as the common man or woman is in a union. It's a bad thing.

For myself. I fall in the middle. I'm not against unions and I don't agree with them 100%. And I'm sure as hell not going to tell someone they can't join a union to make more money and better their lives.

If you don't like it. Join a union or ask, beg and plead to your boss for a raise. And when he doesn't give you a nickel, or gives you that pesky 1% raise that's not even on par with the rise of the cost of living and you bitch moan and cry about, send out 20 resumes and no replies. Let me know how that works for you. Because you know damn well that is how it works for probably 90% of the middle class workforce who try to make it in life.

 

[Chet Donnelly]

Wha wha wha.

Usually those that cry the most are the one not in a union. LOLzzzz

Most everyone who is anti union will give free reach arounds to their favorite football players, basketball players etc etc or bow down and kiss the ground the police and fireman walk on who are all in unions. But as soon as the common man or woman is in a union. It's a bad thing.

For myself. I fall in the middle. I'm not against unions and I don't agree with them 100%. And I'm sure as hell not going to tell someone they can't join a union to make more money and better their lives.

If you don't like it. Join a union or ask, beg and plead to your boss for a raise. And when he doesn't give you a nickel, or gives you that pesky 1% raise that's not even on par with the rise of the cost of living and you bitch moan and cry about, send out 20 resumes and no replies. Let me know how that works for you. Because you know damn well that is how it works for probably 90% of the middle class workforce who try to make it in life.

I don't know man...every time I've been unhappy with my pay or work, I've sent out resumes and gotten a better job. Sometimes its taken up to a year or so, but it has always worked out.

I work hard, and would say I'm smart enough, but I'm nothing special. Pretty confident most people could pull it off.