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Old 09-11-2016, 08:09 AM   #2176
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So that's what happens when you fiddle fuck around at a track on street tires, eh?
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Old 09-11-2016, 09:17 AM   #2177
 
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15" Slicks are tranny savers.
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Old 09-11-2016, 10:01 PM   #2178
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lots of shrapnel, ISS sensor got creamed
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3800>all other technology ever
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Old 09-11-2016, 10:15 PM   #2179
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The rest of the trans still look good?
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Old 09-11-2016, 10:17 PM   #2180
 
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Quote:
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lots of shrapnel, ISS sensor got creamed
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Old 09-12-2016, 01:01 AM   #2181
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chainset is fine, threads on the drive sprocket are hosed, but it evidently only has 2 5mm threads at the bottom of a deep counterbore... from GM
two still have the threads, sorta intact, the one is completely pulled out

this shits getting fixed permanently by new threads and tack welding the bolt heads to the wheel

thankfully the reluctor wheel managed to confine the bolts/shrapnel to the thrust washer (shredded, only found 2 pieces, rest probably in pan.)

thank god I insisted we pull/winch and push it, any more run time might have really killed shit, a bolt had punctured the channel plate at several passages.

I vacuumed out a lot of shrapnel. most along the bottom drain pall of the chain void.

we need an ISS sensor, channel plate and thrust washer, we should replace the channel plate sleeve as well as the converter nose bushing as it was twisted over it wore the outter to a taper and walked it out

channel plate sleeve took a good hit and it did chew the Teflon IS seals up a bit from the heat.

I think the best way to fix it is to ditch the pump body and extend the IS to a custom bearing support there....and then just use a crank/belt driven pump to feed the VB pressure

I now know why they designed the 4t80e with a much better chaincase/chain/support bearings
anyways, on to the carnage








in all we were lucky, could have been much worse. MUCH worse
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Old 09-12-2016, 05:14 AM   #2182
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Damn, that looks brutal.
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Old 09-12-2016, 06:45 AM   #2183
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That looks gnarly
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Old 09-12-2016, 07:17 AM   #2184
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That looks gnarly
I haven't seen anyone use that word in a long time I always say "gah-narly"
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Old 09-12-2016, 08:10 AM   #2185
 
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Mine is welded, you definitely need to. Glad everything else looks ok. Decided to take off my 18's as well and its back on the 16" wheels and drag radials. I'm running Toyo Proxes DR's, and on the street I leave the boost low (10-12 psi) and i've been caught in a downpour and it wasn't as sketchy as you'd believe. It spins, but not nearly as bad as the all seasons obviously. Better to be easier on the trans than to look good on the 18's i suppose.

Good luck getting it back together. I'd have to walk away for a good week or so.
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Old 09-12-2016, 08:20 AM   #2186
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Holy hell! Maybe I'll bring my sprocket by to have you weld mine on too while it's out, whaddya think @Turbocharged400sbc?
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Old 09-12-2016, 08:34 AM   #2187
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Holy cow, that's some carnage.
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Old 09-13-2016, 07:35 AM   #2188
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Quote:
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Mine is welded, you definitely need to. Glad everything else looks ok. Decided to take off my 18's as well and its back on the 16" wheels and drag radials. I'm running Toyo Proxes DR's, and on the street I leave the boost low (10-12 psi) and i've been caught in a downpour and it wasn't as sketchy as you'd believe. It spins, but not nearly as bad as the all seasons obviously. Better to be easier on the trans than to look good on the 18's i suppose.

Good luck getting it back together. I'd have to walk away for a good week or so.
welding wouldn't have fixed this issue. the reluctor/tone wheel came in contact with the case from flexing over the stator support and pushing the IS against the channel plate sleeve, welded or not it would have pulled the two fucking threads anyways

I found one bolt with a polished nose that holds the vb to the channel plate.

I tossed the parts together on the bench and that bolt is flush, replace it with one of the others and its sticking through the channel plate by .015

this explains the half moon on one of the reluctor teeth and the deep gouge in the plate.

chances are if the tip of the bolt had not of caught on the reluctor tooth and ripped the 2 thread deep 5mm threads in the GMR gear....we would have been shaving off aluminum with the ISS wheel

the pump shaft shows contact between the ID of the IS and the pump drive splines (converter end) and that's troubling since there's over .040 radial play

the ISS shows high polishing from the stator support bushing, and the converter bushing wear marks are only on the outboard side of the stator support.

basically the chain/power was trying to bend everything over, and it did so, and shit went to hell.

but yeah im pretty sure the gm drag teams just deleted the wheel/4th for a quick solution instead of fixing the root of the problem, the stator support/drive sprocket flex

the 80e has large ball bearings supporting its sprockets, along with Torrington's on either side, inside a channel plate that fully encapsulates each sprocket section including the stretch of the bellhousing that the 4t60/65 leaves to flap in the breeze.

sooooo

ive decided I wont be putting the trans back together till I try to get this sorted out and either tear apart one of my known good spare transaxles, or talk to Mr Norris at triple edge performance

ive already confirmed the tolerance stacking would handle stacking the stamped steel channel plate gaskets, each layer adding .020 clearance between the channel plate and trans case/sprockets/tone wheel.

so at the least im trimming the bolts a hair, smoothing the underside of the channel plate/adding really shallow oil grooves to minimize contact wear between the tone wheel and the channel plate.

alternately, im looking at finishing my work on the stator support brace and making a tone wheel with a recess to let me have a good load bearing surface to have a 80e Torrington ride, machining a racetrack around the channel plate sleeve boss would be a nice true surface for it to ride.

that would put the load on that side through a better path than the ISS floating on Teflon rings with a 1.25" dia plastic thrust washer....which does nothing but slide sideways till the IS Teflon rings/grooves grind against the channel plate sleeve

i wonder how much meat is around the stator support and if there's any really narrow ball bearings out there, would be nice to take up the load radially than via preventing the thrust load of it spinning out of true.

we're talking about 5mm package area, maybe as much as a 1/4" if the channel plate s gaskets are stacked

fucking .015" of a fucking bolt, its literally the fucking crown left after the threads are rolled into the damned things

but yeah... .015" and 3 5mm bolts with 2 threads each, is what fucked us, oddly enough its not that troubling to me, at the channel plate sleeve that's only about .004 more that the IS would have had to grind into the sleeve before the tone wheel rubbed the aluminum.

it was gonna fucking happen sooner or later

we may no longer drag race it to keep this sort of shock loading from killing more parts. it's bad enough we're finally getting up to 26/28 psi and what is likely 700+ whp and 650+ wtq

so i guess its now just a dyno queen and half mile hero?
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Old 09-13-2016, 07:40 AM   #2189
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Holy hell! Maybe I'll bring my sprocket by to have you weld mine on too while it's out, whaddya think @Turbocharged400sbc?
how bigs you pile of trans parts? i has custom lightweight reluctor wheel but needs parts
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Old 09-13-2016, 07:53 AM   #2190
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Old 09-13-2016, 08:07 AM   #2191
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Quote:
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how bigs you pile of trans parts? i has custom lightweight reluctor wheel but needs parts
My collection of spare (intact/working) trans parts is non-existent. Whatchu need for a lightweight one, a minty one?
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Old 09-13-2016, 09:07 AM   #2192
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Just put that motor in THIS

2000 Pontiac Firebird
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Old 09-13-2016, 09:18 AM   #2193
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Get this thing running, just in time to bring it over to me for it's winter hibernation bath
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Old 09-13-2016, 09:43 AM   #2194
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This situation was one we were discussing hypothetically as we were tearing the car apart before opening the trans

Either James can get these upgrades custom made, but will take a lot of engineering

Or

We put the motor in something RWD and it still is ultimately still like more work, however selling the current trans GMR parts would pay for the new parts for rwd

Idk, quite the ultimatum
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Old 09-13-2016, 10:06 AM   #2195
 
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Delete 4th and Delete wheel..... no more wheel to damage... race it.
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Old 09-13-2016, 10:20 AM   #2196
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RWD and never look back. 3800s are aight' by me. It's nonsense trying to make the power this car *should* make, stay alive in a transmission and drive configuration that has dog shit aftermarket support. Light some dollar bills on fire in a big pile and film it. that's more entertainment value than trying to get this car running repeatedly for years on end.
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Old 09-13-2016, 12:00 PM   #2197
 
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I vote remove 4th gear. Or see if you can figure out how to get an 80e to hold.

Or rwd swap the regal. And don't remove the flames.
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Old 09-13-2016, 12:40 PM   #2198
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I hate those 4t65ehd transmissions with every ounce of my being. Find something cool rwd to swap your motor and goodies into. 280z with that motor would be one nasty mofo.
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Old 09-13-2016, 01:32 PM   #2199
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So which one of you fuckers is gonna refab the turbo system for a mustang
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Old 09-13-2016, 01:39 PM   #2200
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buy my mustang. perfect platform! i can't squeeze in the car like i use too


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Broken Regal View Post
This situation was one we were discussing hypothetically as we were tearing the car apart before opening the trans

Either James can get these upgrades custom made, but will take a lot of engineering

Or

We put the motor in something RWD and it still is ultimately still like more work, however selling the current trans GMR parts would pay for the new parts for rwd

Idk, quite the ultimatum
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