Suspect with crowbar shot by police outside Carls Jr

[greasy]

http://www.policek9.com/html/mission.html

The primary initiative for the K9 team is to search for and locate suspects or evidence that can be linked to a specific crime scene. The dog is one of the few investigative tools that is available to the patrol team.

The support service provided by the dog section can go beyond the primary initiative in ways that are very effective. They can can be used to locate missing persons, detect illicit drugs or explosives and to back up patrol on calls where the dogs presence can have a psychological effect, or where his physical abilities may deter or prevent violent confrontation.

 

[blakbearddelite]

http://www.policek9.com/html/mission.html

The primary initiative for the K9 team is to search for and locate suspects or evidence that can be linked to a specific crime scene. The dog is one of the few investigative tools that is available to the patrol team.

The support service provided by the dog section can go beyond the primary initiative in ways that are very effective. They can can be used to locate missing persons, detect illicit drugs or explosives and to back up patrol on calls where the dogs presence can have a psychological effect, or where his physical abilities may deter or prevent violent confrontation.

I would think the physical abilities of the dog would prevent a violent confrontation (a shooting perhaps) between a perp and the police.

 

[greasy]

I would think the physical abilities of the dog would prevent a violent confrontation (a shooting perhaps) between a perp and the police.

Your reading fails you. The dogs physical abilities did not make the perp drop the weapon or prevent a voilent confrontation, therefore the perp had to be shot. Also this is a secondary function of the K9 and not the primary function.

 

[Bruce Jibboo]

and the cop who almost got clubbed by the crobar would likely want to shoot his partner for NOT shooting the guy who just clubbed him with a crobar.

 

[blakbearddelite]

Your reading fails you. The dogs physical abilities did not make the perp drop the weapon or prevent a voilent confrontation, therefore the perp had to be shot. Also this is a secondary function of the K9 and not the primary function.

I disagree, the dog's psychological effect did not make the perp drop the weapon to prevent a violent confrontation. The police officers should have used the dog's physical abilities (namely attacking) to prevent a less violent confrontation.

EDIT:

I added less violent because a dog attacking your ass is still violent.

 

[greasy]

I disagree, the dog's psychological effect did not make the perp drop the weapon to prevent a violent confrontation. The police officers should have used the dog's physical abilities (namely attacking) to prevent a violent confrontation.

No, why would they unleash the dog? It is not the dog's primary function. By doing so they do not guarantee to alleviate the situation and also put the officer & department asset at risk. The cops were correct in their action.

 

[Bruce Jibboo]

No, why would they unleash the dog? It is not the dog's primary function. By doing so they do not guarantee to alleviate the situation and also put the officer & department asset at risk. The cops were correct in their action.

+1 and it was probably by the book. They may be reviewing the second set of shots though.

 

[Chester Copperpot]

If the guy had the thought process to advance and swing at an officer, why wouldn't he do it to the dog? Had the dog been released and the perp swung and hit the dog, what would the officers have ultimately done? Shot him.

Skip risking injuring the dog and just take him out, period. Risk assessment prevails.

 

[blakbearddelite]

I don't think it matters if it is primary or secondary.

That article you posted said it is a secondary initiative. Why does it bother listing it if it is never used?

Plain and simple, the cops had another options to take the perp out, but they chose to kill him instead. The world is better off without the guy, but I believe it was excessive force.

 

[Bruce Jibboo]

If the guy had the thought process to advance and swing at an officer, why wouldn't he do it to the dog? Had the dog been released and the perp swung and hit the dog, what would the officers have ultimately done? Shot him.

Skip risking injuring the dog and just take him out, period. Risk assessment prevails.

this seems common sense to me

 

[greasy]

I don't think it matters if it is primary or secondary.

That article you posted said it is a secondary initiative. Why does it bother listing it if it is never used?

Plain and simple, the cops had another options to take the perp out, but they chose to kill him instead. The world is better off without the guy, but I believe it was excessive force.

So what if the guy had a gun, do you still release the dog? Because under your thought process the dog should be released and then if that does not work he should be shot.

 

[greasy]

Primary functions and secondary functions do factor in. If the dog is not specifically trained for attacking criminals with deadly weapons why would he be used in such a manner. I think that the option is there when it makes sense and in this case it does not.

 

[blakbearddelite]

So what if the guy had a gun, do you still release the dog? Because under your thought process the dog should be released and then if that does not work he should be shot.

If the guy had a gun, I don't think they would send the dog after him. I think that is a totally different situation and does not apply to this particular situation.

 

[Chester Copperpot]

But it does apply to this situation. Deadly suspect is deadly regardless if he has a sharpened toothbrush in jail or an AK47 on I90 in the middle of rush hour.

Risk assessment and the escalation of deadly force. Guy gets told to drop his weapon. Doesn't comply. Gets tazered. Tazer doesn't drop him so the suspect lunges at a cop. Escalation gets escalated REAL fast. That warrants him getting shot.

 

[blakbearddelite]

Primary functions and secondary functions do factor in. If the dog is not specifically trained for attacking criminals with deadly weapons why would he be used in such a manner. I think that the option is there when it makes sense and in this case it does not.

Your article wasn't very detailed on the 'physical abilities' of police dogs. I'm willing to bet that police dogs are trained to handle situations like these. But we'll never know.

If the dog was not certified to handle this situation, why bring a K9 unit?

 

[Chester Copperpot]

If the dog was not certified to handle this situation, why bring a K9 unit?

Intimidation.

Shit, why bring tazers? They weren't effective just as this dog wouldn't have been effective either.

 

[blakbearddelite]

But it does apply to this situation. Deadly suspect is deadly regardless if he has a sharpened toothbrush in jail or an AK47 on I90 in the middle of rush hour.

So you don't think the perp has a better chance of shooting the dog than stabbing it with a toothbrush? I'm pulling numbers out of my ass, but I bet his chances of killing the dog with a gun is like 90% and the odds of him killing the dog with a sharpened toothbrush is like 5%. I'm pretty sure the K9 unit does a risk assessment before unleashing the dogs.

 

[blakbearddelite]

Intimidation.

Shit, why bring tazers? They weren't effective just as this dog wouldn't have been effective either.

They brought the dog because it has primary and secondary functions. They chose not to use the secondary functions. That is my point.

 

[Chester Copperpot]

Following in the path of risk assessment, had the perp not lunged at a cop, I guarantee you their next move would have been to unleash the dog. Since the perp skipped the formalities and just lunged at the cop, the other cop skipped his escalation of deadly force and just went to the top and popped 5 rounds into the perp.

 

[ThirdgenTa]

If the guy had the thought process to advance and swing at an officer, why wouldn't he do it to the dog? Had the dog been released and the perp swung and hit the dog, what would the officers have ultimately done? Shot him.

Skip risking injuring the dog and just take him out, period. Risk assessment prevails.

In training, dogs are trained to bite the hand with the weapon. However, their job is not to be put in the middle of a death sentence. They did what they needed to do.

 

[greasy]

Your article wasn't very detailed on the 'physical abilities' of police dogs. I'm willing to bet that police dogs are trained to handle situations like these. But we'll never know.

If the dog was not certified to handle this situation, why bring a K9 unit?

They are trained to handle situations like this, but is it the majority of their training? No. The majority of their training will revolve around their primary function.

They brought the dog because it has primary and secondary functions. They chose not to use the secondary functions. That is my point.

They did try to use the secondary function of psychological intimidation and it did not work. They do not have to use every ability of the dog in order to make the move of shooting the criminal. Maybe the dog should have sniffed for drugs as well during the conflict

 

[Shadow99]

Wish there wasnt rain on the window, that was irritating...

 

[blakbearddelite]

In training, dogs are trained to bite the hand with the weapon. However, their job is not to be put in the middle of a death sentence. They did what they needed to do.

My argument is that I think the dog could have unarmed the guy. I don't think it was a death sentence. These aren't your next door neighbor's dogs. These are highly trained animals.

I would love to speak to a K9 officer to get their input on this type of scenario.

 

[Chester Copperpot]

Dogs also aren't humans. Humans can take some extremely powerful blows that would otherwise kill that dog.

 

[blakbearddelite]

Dogs also aren't humans. Humans can take some extremely powerful blows that would otherwise kill that dog.

Exactly, I bet this dog could have disarmed the guy before he knew what was happening. Dogs are so fast, I bet this guy wouldn't have had a chance.