Building A Domestic RWD V8 Roll Race Monster
- Thread starter greasy
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For roll racing specifically if that's the target here I don't see how it would be hard to go wrong with a high rpm V8 in a light car that has a few stages of nitrous.
Nitrous has always seemed like some magic sh1t that everyone is always hush hush on or no one uses it at all.
Plus a built nitrous car seems like a good way to keep the weight down too.
Like for example a 600hp NA LSwhatever and 2 stages of bottle on top of that. Rest would come down to gears, and weight.
Nitrous cars have always impressed the shit out of me. Just looks like a NA LS engine until you find out its making 8-900 or more with a few stages......
The issue with nitrous is the amount a small motor can ingest with one atmosphere. A small motor can only take in so much limiting how much power it can add to the n/a hp.
You are telling me a 650 RWHP FI car with an auto going through a 4K stall and a 4.56 gear would be the same on the highway as a 650 RWHP FI car going through a 6 speed and a 3.55 gear???
kay:
A good converter will not matter much based off the stall as long as it has a low percentage of slip at higher rpm. Or in newer transmissions where the converter gets locked up as soon as the trans shifts into second gear.
The 2011+ Mustang GT uses the MT82 6 speed transmission. Where 5th gear is 1:1. So you have 5 gears before you shift into over drive.
These are the two cars I was thinking of when I read the first post.
@ pressure ratio.........
That's exactly why I mentioned MULTIPLE stages...........
pretty much any LS engine should be able to take 75-150 shot especially if its wet from what Ive read digging around on yellowbullet.com.
For example a 3 stage 75/100/150 I'd certainly think would be doable. (AKA progressive stage)
Ive seen some LS3 engines build by Borowski on Englinelabs. That engine made over 600whp NA and on a 150 shot it picked up 225hp..... (845 off 1 hit, squeeze it a few times on a roll race and see what happens!!!)
This is all through a nitrous puck hidden in the intake manifold.
Borowski Race Engines Builds Killer LS3 Nitrous Combo - With Video! - EngineLabs
This is a badass setup rumor is its even out hunting in Chicago area..... Opens hood nothing to see here just a bolt on LS3
BTW you do realize convertor lockup can be greatly manipulated via tune settings right?
That's exactly why I mentioned MULTIPLE stages...........
pretty much any LS engine should be able to take 75-150 shot especially if its wet from what Ive read digging around on yellowbullet.com.
For example a 3 stage 75/100/150 I'd certainly think would be doable. (AKA progressive stage)
Ive seen some LS3 engines build by Borowski on Englinelabs. That engine made over 600whp NA and on a 150 shot it picked up 225hp..... (845 off 1 hit, squeeze it a few times on a roll race and see what happens!!!)
This is all through a nitrous puck hidden in the intake manifold.
Borowski Race Engines Builds Killer LS3 Nitrous Combo - With Video! - EngineLabs
This is a badass setup rumor is its even out hunting in Chicago area..... Opens hood nothing to see here just a bolt on LS3
BTW you do realize convertor lockup can be greatly manipulated via tune settings right?
The delivery of the nitrous to the intake isn't the issue. The issue is how much air, fuel and nitrous the engine is capable of filling the cylinders with. You only have 14.7 psi (atmospheric pressure) to fill the cylinders with. So the size of he air/fuel/nitrous molecules limits how much can fit in the cylinder. So a small cube motor can only take in so much air/fuel/nitrous.
Where a blower or turbo is capable of cramming more air into the cylinders. Like adding 20, 25, 30 psi or more on top of the atmospheric pressure that is already there. Well for the most part as fuel isn't going to compress much and so on. So when adding large power with a power adder, the blowers and turbos are usually the way people go with on small cube motors.
Your talking apples vs oranges here Im talking about an engine built to handle the nitrous.........
Orrrrrrrr boost the above engine I just linked then STILL use the puck hidden in the intake.........
Edit also there are a lot of K series Hondas that can swallow 150 shot or more so Im positive one could build a much bigger cube LS3 to ingest more than 150 shot...........
Orrrrrrrr boost the above engine I just linked then STILL use the puck hidden in the intake.........
Edit also there are a lot of K series Hondas that can swallow 150 shot or more so Im positive one could build a much bigger cube LS3 to ingest more than 150 shot...........
You can still only cram so much nitrous into a engine "built to handle the nitrous". There are physical limitations of the engine size and how much air, fuel and nitrous you can get in there with just the atmospheric pressure.
Try to get a 800 shot of nitrous in a 4.6L engine at less than 6,000 rpm. Let me know how that works. I will wait right here for you to let me know how that goes.
Try to get a 800 shot of nitrous in a 4.6L engine at less than 6,000 rpm. Let me know how that works. I will wait right here for you to let me know how that goes.
Sooo now 800 shot is the same as less than 200 shot? LOLOLOLOL
Forget about the boosted engine for a second and follow along....
1. I mentioned MULTIPLE STAGES.... 75 shot, then 100, then 150 for example.
2. Yes I completely understand you can only cram so much into a NA engine you've mentioned this how many times now?
3. Have you not seen an LS engine take more than a 150 shot? There are PLENTY that do same with Ford modular engines PLENTY take more than 150 shot.
4. Im not arguing nitrous vs. boosted engines I never have from the start. My very 1st post I mentioned a lot of people are hush hush on nitrous builds or don't run them at all.
5. Nitrous tech has came a fuck of a long way in the last 10 years for example your general argument you can only cram so much into a NA engine doesn't mean shit to me really. I understand that you reach a ceiling, however craming more into a NA engine is specifically why they make Nitrous specific cams..... Example more exhaust overlap to scavenge the nitrous out of the cylinders......
Are you still stuck on the nitrous. vs boost here? Its not what Im talking about at all.
If you can only cram X amount of nitrous into an engine then please explain how the tiny little 4 cylinder Hondas take 150 or more with a smile?
Im not taking an 800 shot that's just you being a smartass and discounting that a MULTIPLE/progressive stage properly built engine on the bottle could be a viable option........
Forget about the boosted engine for a second and follow along....
1. I mentioned MULTIPLE STAGES.... 75 shot, then 100, then 150 for example.
2. Yes I completely understand you can only cram so much into a NA engine you've mentioned this how many times now?
3. Have you not seen an LS engine take more than a 150 shot? There are PLENTY that do same with Ford modular engines PLENTY take more than 150 shot.
4. Im not arguing nitrous vs. boosted engines I never have from the start. My very 1st post I mentioned a lot of people are hush hush on nitrous builds or don't run them at all.
5. Nitrous tech has came a fuck of a long way in the last 10 years for example your general argument you can only cram so much into a NA engine doesn't mean shit to me really. I understand that you reach a ceiling, however craming more into a NA engine is specifically why they make Nitrous specific cams..... Example more exhaust overlap to scavenge the nitrous out of the cylinders......
Are you still stuck on the nitrous. vs boost here? Its not what Im talking about at all.
If you can only cram X amount of nitrous into an engine then please explain how the tiny little 4 cylinder Hondas take 150 or more with a smile?
Im not taking an 800 shot that's just you being a smartass and discounting that a MULTIPLE/progressive stage properly built engine on the bottle could be a viable option........
If you would have read the article I linked about the nitrous LS3 you'd see it picked up over 200 hp on a 150 shot....
But but but but how is this possible? What if it had a 200 shot then how much over the pill size would it actually make? Im 100% sure it will take more than a 150 shot if it cranks out over 200hp on a 150 shot pill.
I don't think you understand nitrous applications very well and Im certainly no expert on it either. I threw a link at you gave you and example to LOOK at and all you say is
Blah blah blah "you can only cram so much into a NA engine" :quote:
But but but but how is this possible? What if it had a 200 shot then how much over the pill size would it actually make? Im 100% sure it will take more than a 150 shot if it cranks out over 200hp on a 150 shot pill.
I don't think you understand nitrous applications very well and Im certainly no expert on it either. I threw a link at you gave you and example to LOOK at and all you say is
Blah blah blah "you can only cram so much into a NA engine" :quote:
Go ahead and google 300 shot LS3 for me there are a fuck ton that pop up...............
OHMYGOD even a few on 400shot............
No 600, 700 or 800 shots on a LS3? No cam profile for that yet?
You asked why nitrous isn't as popular or used as much. I gave a reason. I understand nitrous very well. I am not even gonna pick at some of your last couple posts. I am done. You like to argue more than Turk. lol
Because your only argument is blah blah blah you can only cram in x amount of nitrous into a na engine.........
Well geee umm where is the ceiling then seems to me its at least over 400shot........
I said nitrous builds are hush hush or people don't use them not that they are not popular. Point being people that DO use them usually keep the exact setup secret.
Although Id agree they are not very popular because people are scared of nitrous that havnt used it before. OMGITLLBLOWYOURINTAKEWELDS!!!!
Don't get butt hurt I throw examples at you and you discount everything as BOOSTEDISBESTESTBOOSTEVENYTHINGONLYBOOSTEDISFAST.....
No 600, 700 or 800 shots on a LS3? No cam profile for that yet?
You asked why nitrous isn't as popular or used as much. I gave a reason. I understand nitrous very well. I am not even gonna pick at some of your last couple posts. I am done. You like to argue more than Turk. lol
LOL whiny copout because I throw examples at you and your still being a sarcastic smartass no 800 shot? LOLOLOL
Go ahead and tap out raise the white flag and give up Ohh wait you already said your done..........
Let's see if this is easier for you to understand. So 400ish hp of spray on a LS3 is the limit is what you are saying. OK Let's use that number. Any fucktard can slap on a blower or turbo and increase hp of a LS3 much more than that. That is why it is more popular. Roll racers make big power now a days. Safe to assume 1,200+ wheel hp to many of these cars.
Boosted - Make 1,400+ crank hp with a boosted ls3 is not to complicated or hard. Plenty have done it. Hell, even magazines have come close with a junkyard 4.6L LS motor.
Nitrous - Make 1,400+ crank hp with a 400ish shot and not you have to build a motor that makes about 1,000+ hp naturally aspirated LS3. Well now the average fucktard can't build a LS3 to do that so easily. Or design a cam to work well with the ls3 and spray. So it becomes much more challenging to make big hp on small cubes.
See what I am saying?
OK, I am really done. I have work to do. You can say you won the internets over me today if you want. haha
Boosted - Make 1,400+ crank hp with a boosted ls3 is not to complicated or hard. Plenty have done it. Hell, even magazines have come close with a junkyard 4.6L LS motor.
Nitrous - Make 1,400+ crank hp with a 400ish shot and not you have to build a motor that makes about 1,000+ hp naturally aspirated LS3. Well now the average fucktard can't build a LS3 to do that so easily. Or design a cam to work well with the ls3 and spray. So it becomes much more challenging to make big hp on small cubes.
See what I am saying?
OK, I am really done. I have work to do. You can say you won the internets over me today if you want. haha
Holy fucking Christ guy I never argued Boost vs. Nitrous..........
YOUR STILLL COMPARING BOOST TO NITROUS......
your right just stop posting.............
Yes a boosted engine can make eleventy billion HP your sooo smart!!!
Edit BTW there ARE 1000 crank HP NA LSx engines S.A.M.S. has done them just to rattle one off the top of my head.....
:trollface::ming::trollface::ming:
YOUR STILLL COMPARING BOOST TO NITROUS......
your right just stop posting.............
Yes a boosted engine can make eleventy billion HP your sooo smart!!!
Edit BTW there ARE 1000 crank HP NA LSx engines S.A.M.S. has done them just to rattle one off the top of my head.....
:trollface::ming::trollface::ming:
Until you are roll racing all night and the bottle goes out.
But really, I love nitrous. Both it and boost have uses in the automotive field for sure.
Competitive Motor Engine Build - 1,029HP, 440CI, N/A LSX - GM High-Tech Performance Magazine
here this one isn't S.A.M.S. either LOL and my ONLY point was that a properly built nitrous engine could be a viable option......
Bottle runs out? Gee so does your fucking gas tank LOL run 2 10#ers
:nos::nos:
Killer sig @ pressure ratio glad we can agree on something LOL
here this one isn't S.A.M.S. either LOL and my ONLY point was that a properly built nitrous engine could be a viable option......
Bottle runs out? Gee so does your fucking gas tank LOL run 2 10#ers
:nos::nos:
Killer sig @ pressure ratio glad we can agree on something LOL
It wasn't meant towards you, roll racing is for boosted cars - end of storyUntil you are roll racing all night and the bottle goes out.
But really, I love nitrous. Both it and boost have uses in the automotive field for sure.
That being said, nitrous is a great alternative for drag racing, especially if you're on a budget - but once you get past the "basic 150 shot" boost becomes the better option - especially on lsx engines
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