3800 owner saying hi

bandook

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140k 01 Impala. Currently being put back together after I found out my valve guides were shot. So I decided to put a little cam in it and some other much needed repairs. Hope to have it back together by this weekend. I'll put up a mod list later if anyone is interested.
 

RICH17

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Staying NA? THese things love turbos :)
 

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I haz dat teddy bear smile.
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bandook

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Thanks guys. I top swapped 4 years ago. Currently gen 3 2.8. I know you guys love your turbos, lol. But I love my s/c. Currently on E85 and meth inj. Will eventually go gen V I'm sure.
 

RICH17

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You can find gen5's dirt cheap these days.
 

CMNTMXR57

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Ain't nothing wrong with a supercharger...

I secretly keep my eyes out for the indy 500 Impala's personally.
 

bandook

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E85 knock resistance. Meth sprayed pre blower to cool temps and also added knock resistance. Blower (aka Heaton) is cooler too. Was able to drop pulley size and bump up timing when I started spraying.
 

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If tuned properly the car would make the same if not more power with just E85, and it wouldn't have to rely on a system that could fail at any time leaving you with a lean condition with higher timing. Definitely something you should delete and never look back.
 

bandook

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I have a failsafe that pulls timing if meth ever errors out. I'm sure you are smarter than me, most people are, but tell me how spraying into the blower and cooling it is in any way a negative. Not trying to argue, but you are telling me that my 600 dollar upgrade is doodoo, so I need convinced from facts. I can pull up many other builds running both that have had good results.
 

GTPpower

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You should be gaining power with meth. 100% meth has about 1.5x the latent cooling vaporization that e85 has. If you aren't picking up power with it, especially with a m90, you are doing it wrong.
 

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I would like to understand how you have it pulling timing when the methanol kit is either empty or not working. Is that linked to the OEM computer?
 

bandook

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Yes, through the OEM computer. I'll tell ya how I did it once you tell me how running both e85 and meth is worthless. Telling me I should just remove my kit without any facts as to why is kinda rude. This is my hobby. Yeah, I got a lot to learn, but I wouldn't just tell someone to yank an expensive part without a good reason.
 

bandook

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Thanks. I'll tell ya anyways because I think it's kinda trick. So I use the failsafe wire, through a relay, in the AEM progressive controller to open the IAT sensor wire when there is any error in the kit. Doing so drops the IAT reading to -40. Then it's as simple as pulling timing in that table.
 

b4black

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I ran an IC and E85. Both helped.

With E85 and Meth, both are doing the same thing. Dumping more fuel/alcohol into the engine, which is the redundancy I was asking about. I'm not saying don't do it. Just wondering why.

You must being running super rich at WOT (which is not necessarily a problem.) I was just thinking why not inject more E85 through the injectors? Or fill the alcohol injection with E85? Or run methanol through the fuel injectors?


I asked if you where knocking on E85 alone. I assume you were, since you upped boost and timing with the meth.

Thanks for sharing. Sometime you have to have a think skin here. If you don't do it "their way", you must be wrong. ;)
 

bandook

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I'm spraying pre-charger simply for the cooling benefits on the (h)Eaton. Most of the meth/water is likely flashing off before it makes in in the cylinders. I'm not going to pretend I'm an engineer and have it all figured out. I'm a hobbyist that likes to experiment and have fun. Sure, I can run richer on e85, but throwing more fuel at knock eventually nets zero return. Right now my car seems happiest around 11.3/11.4. From what I've read, e30's knock resistance is not that much worse than e85. That's where I believe the water/meth helps out. Not so much it's active knock resistance in the combustion chamber, but it's cooling effect on the Eaton, which means cooler, denser air in the cylinders.

Again, don't read this as science. I'm not saying do what I do. I was just saying hi. I just installed a cam, just waiting for my heads to get done. If I can up the timing a little and run knock free on a 2.8 without meth then cool beans. Next phase will probably be a gen V. I'll take it as far as I can and maybe spray meth again. Next year i'd like to intercool. I'm really gonna piss off some forum gods here when I run e85/meth/intercooler, eh? Crap, I might just throw a bag of ice on the s/c too.
 

b4black

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If the car is getting faster, then you are doing it right. Definitely will piss them off. They told me I was running too small a pulley and too much timing - but I had zero knock and the ETs were getting lower.

Most of us are here to learn from each other.

In a PFI engine, ethanol benefits diminish above 30% (at least that's what the MIT paper I'm reading says). When gasoline or E85 sprays out the injector, it's a liquid until it hits the hot air, intake valves and the walls of the intake
manifold. Then its a vapor. The methanol you are spraying is essentially doing the same thing, just a little up stream (which be better). It's all going into the cylinders (where else could it go), so some of you rich AFR is from the methanol. Water actually absorbs more heat than the methanol. You might pick up power going to straight distilled water, with less volume.

I ran a 2.7 pulley with 24° timing on just E85, headers and an IC. I believe I was limited by the lack of rockers/cam. I'll be interested to here how it works out for you.
 

bandook

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Did you notice a gain with timing that high? I've heard these things like timing around 20-24°, but I've never seen a dyno. That's where street tuning is tricky. Ya never really know when you've reached diminishing returns. I do know that 19 is better than 13 though. When I trip the meth failsafe and it pulls 6 degrees it's super noticable. Makes me think about putting it on a switch so I can turn off a few degrees instantly. Do a wot pull and flip the switch to see if it noticably looses power.

I'm trying to find a thread that motivated me to spray. Think it was in a fiero. Guy went from small nozzle and kept spraying more and more into the blower and had data. I believe he was up to a couple large nozzles. I'll keep looking, you'll enjoy the read.
 

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