Forum Register TCG Mobile Casino Live Posting Feed Garage Arcade Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   The Chicago Garage > The Garage > TCG Technical

User Tag List

Like Tree12Likes
  • 1 Post By Jokerzl
  • 5 Post By 10sec
  • 3 Post By 1quick
  • 1 Post By Donnie
  • 2 Post By greasy

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 11-24-2014, 06:06 AM   #1
 
Silverback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 83
Casino cash: $4683100
0.03 per day
Question Nitrous to cool IAT

Can a dose of nitrous be used to cool the air in the intake piping for 1/8 - 1/4 mile drag race runs in lieu of an intercooler?

I'm taking about a seldom used application.

I have a 4.6 2004 Mercury Marauder, with stock internals, equipped with a Vortec supercharger making 431 RWHP, 10lbs @6K. (recent dyno tune)

I bought the S/C kit when I had a 100 shot Zex wet system but the cost of the SC kit with Intercooler and piping was more than I could afford. However, the installer told me that if I dropped the nitrous pills from 100 to about 25 I could use the cold gas to cool the inlet charge, assuming that both the fuel and gas sides worked. Sounded reasonable.

A problem developed early on in that the ZEX programmer (purple box) failed. The replacement failed also after one run so I couldn't tell if the theory works. I didn't have a means to measure IAT then, but now I have (Scan gage).

I do have the ZEX traction control box so I can program the Zex system to turn on and off at different RPM's @ WOT.

The Zex programmer, purple box, that's in the car now works only on the Nitrous gas side, so my thinking is to drop the pills to a 15 shot, program the traction controller to turn on at 1K RPM and turn off at 6K, thus cooling the intake air charge.

Is my thinking correct?

No I still can't afford an Intercooler and associated piping plus installation and no more investment in purple boxes. But I want to use what I have. Power is not my problem, a cooler IAT is, because the PCM will pull timing when the IAT gets hot.

Thanks for your consideration,

Pat
Silverback is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 06:22 AM   #2
Ethanol Junkie.
 
Donnie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tempe, AZ/SOUTHSIDE, IL.
Posts: 2,888
Casino cash: $7777865
1.06 per day
Default

Short answer: yes.

I'd just go ethanol though.
__________________


Quote:
Originally Posted by Angus View Post
"But they have Vaginas" -Donnie, probably.
Donnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 06:47 AM   #3
Forum Sponsor
 
Jokerzl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Ashkum
Posts: 3,629
Casino cash: $12678900
1.38 per day
Default Nitrous to cool IAT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Donnie View Post
Short answer: yes.

I'd just go ethanol though.

Ethanol doesn't cool iat temps. The fuel itself remains cooler and is pretty much detonation resistant. That is what allows you to run more timing. Octane goes a long way with that as well.Which makes it a great substitute for race gas. Now that being said I believe in e85. It just that the little amount of fuel that is sprayed has little no effect on combustion chambers temperatures.

Basically saying not enough e85 is sprayed per cylinder to justify a cooling in the chamber. Only true test to be done is to test with egt probes in each cylinder.

This is done on trucks running 20+ psi on whipples kennebells and eatons
__________________

Jokers performance ports

Need anything ported or polished or both pm me

700 hp 4 door Harley truck
435 hp lightning for sale
Jokerzl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 06:51 AM   #4
Forum Sponsor
 
Jokerzl's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Ashkum
Posts: 3,629
Casino cash: $12678900
1.38 per day
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverback View Post
Can a dose of nitrous be used to cool the air in the intake piping for 1/8 - 1/4 mile drag race runs in lieu of an intercooler?



I'm taking about a seldom used application.



I have a 4.6 2004 Mercury Marauder, with stock internals, equipped with a Vortec supercharger making 431 RWHP, 10lbs @6K. (recent dyno tune)



I bought the S/C kit when I had a 100 shot Zex wet system but the cost of the SC kit with Intercooler and piping was more than I could afford. However, the installer told me that if I dropped the nitrous pills from 100 to about 25 I could use the cold gas to cool the inlet charge, assuming that both the fuel and gas sides worked. Sounded reasonable.



A problem developed early on in that the ZEX programmer (purple box) failed. The replacement failed also after one run so I couldn't tell if the theory works. I didn't have a means to measure IAT then, but now I have (Scan gage).



I do have the ZEX traction control box so I can program the Zex system to turn on and off at different RPM's @ WOT.



The Zex programmer, purple box, that's in the car now works only on the Nitrous gas side, so my thinking is to drop the pills to a 15 shot, program the traction controller to turn on at 1K RPM and turn off at 6K, thus cooling the intake air charge.



Is my thinking correct?



No I still can't afford an Intercooler and associated piping plus installation and no more investment in purple boxes. But I want to use what I have. Power is not my problem, a cooler IAT is, because the PCM will pull timing when the IAT gets hot.



Thanks for your consideration,



Pat

Why don't you spray a 50 shot pre maf and let the maf sensor calibrate for the fuel. Make sure you have enough maf and fuel range to do this written into the the tune.

Anything more then a 50 I would do after maf. I have scene 75 shot done premaf
DynaSlim likes this.
Jokerzl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 03:10 PM   #5
Gearhead
 
rocket5979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Round Lake, IL
Posts: 6,575
Casino cash: $7257600
1.32 per day
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jokerzl View Post
Why don't you spray a 50 shot pre maf and let the maf sensor calibrate for the fuel. Make sure you have enough maf and fuel range to do this written into the the tune.

Anything more then a 50 I would do after maf. I have scene 75 shot done premaf

Spraying pre-maf on a Ford "hot" wire MAFS sensor just isn't a good idea. Spray post-maf with wet and calibrate fueling accordingly. Sure, spraying pre-maf works for some folks, but then again there are some people pushing stock 2v 4.6 bottom ends past 500rwhp; but it doesn't mean it is a good idea or that they will last long.

I cannot recall if the Mauraders have the IATS separate from the MAFS in stock form(I don't believe so), but you could separate the two outer IATS wires from the MAFS bundle, route them to a screw in IATS you place downstream from the MAFS, and then spray nitrous post-MAFS but pre IATS and have your IATS spark tables adjust spark accordingly.
__________________
-Robert-
2009 Pontiac G8 GT 6.6-Twin Turbo, 402 stroker, built trans, fuel system, etc...
2005 Audi S4 4.2-Boltons...
2003 Explorer XLT 4.6-Kenne Bell 2.2 @20psi, Built 4.6, built 4R70W, fuel system, etc...

rocket5979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 03:15 PM   #6
I haz dat teddy bear smile.
 
10sec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,019
Casino cash: $89178925
5.74 per day
Default

If you just save the money you'll spend on nitrous or meth kits you could buy an intercooler that works ALL the time and is much more reliable than either method.
greasy, Wrencher, Donnie and 2 others like this.
__________________
2005 S2000
10sec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 03:30 PM   #7
 
1quick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: coal city
Posts: 19,309
Casino cash: $142947447
4.61 per day
Default

I had about 400 into the intercooler and piping for the last car I was putting together and that intercooler was a monster, you could probably throw something together for 250-300
Yaj Yak, greasy and Donnie like this.
__________________
2016 GT 5.slow
1quick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 04:22 PM   #8
Ethanol Junkie.
 
Donnie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tempe, AZ/SOUTHSIDE, IL.
Posts: 2,888
Casino cash: $7777865
1.06 per day
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jokerzl View Post
Ethanol doesn't cool iat temps. The fuel itself remains cooler and is pretty much detonation resistant. That is what allows you to run more timing.
Therein lies the idea. More detonation resistance = lower kr = less or no timing pulled. Unless Ford operates that differently than what I'm used to?

As far as iat s themselves go, I concur with Brett and 10sec. Just drop a few hundred (same or less than a budget nitrous kit) and get a decent air to air setup. Even if it's eBay garbage, it will still make a massive improvement over non-intercooled.
guspech750 likes this.
Donnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 04:41 PM   #9
I Haz New Teknologee
 
greasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The Litter Box
Posts: 28,469
Casino cash: $7730000
6.46 per day
Default Nitrous to cool IAT

Pat an IC setup is cheaper than you think. I bought a 4" IC from eBay and a universal 3" piping kit for $350 total. I am using it in my blown setup on my Cobra and am making close to 500 at the wheels.
Yaj Yak and guspech750 like this.
greasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2014, 05:03 PM   #10
Guspech Superdriller
 
guspech750's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: North Aurora
Posts: 7,076
Casino cash: $35532700
2.04 per day
Default

Just get the IC Pat and be done with it. They can be had cheap on eBay. Why make it more complicated with another system when it doesn't have to be. And it'll be good all around when just tooling around running errands.
__________________
Go E.A.D.
Boost gets you laid.
guspech750 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2014, 01:48 AM   #11
 
Silverback's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 83
Casino cash: $4683100
0.03 per day
Smile

Thanks men, for the recommendations. and the answer to my question.

Regards,
Silverback is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.0.6 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
no new posts