Forum Register TCG Mobile Casino Live Posting Feed Garage Arcade Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   The Chicago Garage > The Garage > TCG Technical > The Blue Oval

User Tag List

Like Tree5Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05-29-2012, 04:04 AM   #1
 
nick122590's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: IOWA
Posts: 2,008
Casino cash: $5874622
0.68 per day
Default engine failures...

buddy has had numerous issues with his 5.0. knock sensor, heads, and now his #8 cylinder is fried. dealership is giving him a hard time about it saying he must of beat the piss out of it or its tune. they should be calling back today to tell him what they found when the checked the computer (the car is bone stock never tuned or anything). has anyone else heard about issues like this?


and no. its not the kid from the recent thread.
nick122590 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 05:46 AM   #2
Cobra Brigade Presidente
 
03GTGreen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,994
Casino cash: $10123400
0.91 per day
Default

It was pretty common on tuned cars at first, maybe Drew or Pratt can chime in
__________________
01 Cobra
11 Fusion Sport

Cobra Brigade
03GTGreen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 07:33 AM   #3
Nemo me impune lacessit
 
Eagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Woodsticks, IL
Posts: 62,485
Casino cash: $169857200
15.03 per day
Default

What is this head issue you speak of?

Mine has been pretty solid. #8 has happened to others though, was definitely tune related in most cases however. Hopefully the dealer comes back with good news.
__________________
2019 RAM 1500 Limited 4x4 CCLB
2008 BMW 535i - MHD tuned
2004 BMW 330xi - kids cruiser
2004 VW New Beetle 2.0
2018 KTM 500 EXC-F
2018 Skidoo Renegade Backcountry X 850
2015 Polaris Indy SP 800
Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 07:45 AM   #4
TCGs Far Right Leader
 
Chester Copperpot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Shithole, IL
Posts: 29,091
Casino cash: $6807400
8.65 per day
Default

Did he buy it brand new or used? If new and he's never tuned it he can fight Ford. If used, he's basically fucked if it ever had a tune.

"Beating on it" is such a bullshit cop-out for dealers. It's a fucking performance car, meant to be beat on. Honor your god damn warranty you ass fucks.
UWISHU1 likes this.
Chester Copperpot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 08:47 AM   #5
Forum Sponsor
 
The Beast's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 13,674
Casino cash: $28806800
2.47 per day
Default

What dealer is this? Is there any signs of abuse? I hope he gets the right answer today. The motor is expensive $$$
__________________
send me a pm if you are wanting to buy a new ford or a pre driven vehicle
The Beast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 10:59 AM   #6
4 Doors 4 Life
 
Zack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 6,295
Casino cash: $8049900
1.12 per day
Default

My buddy at Van Drunen Ford replaced a coyote engine with the exact same problems. Same story too...not tuned or driven hard.

Ford knows there is a problem with some of the engines.
__________________
03 Marauder Whipple 3.4 [email protected] 715rwhp/655rwtq
03 Blue Marauder TurboCharged 620rwhp/626rwtq
93 Town Car 4V/Whipple 2.9 700rhwp/606rwtq
03 Black Marauder DD
1959 Cadillac!
Zack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 11:16 AM   #7
God Speed Blues Brother
 
SC Cheesehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 273
Casino cash: $4753900
0.08 per day
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zack View Post
My buddy at Van Drunen Ford replaced a coyote engine with the exact same problems. Same story too...not tuned or driven hard.

Ford knows there is a problem with some of the engines.
Interesting.

You think it's tied into issues with cooling, etc., like on the 4.6?
SC Cheesehead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 12:14 PM   #8
Moist Ass Bitch
 
Vogz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Batavia, IL
Posts: 4,370
Casino cash: $16556295
0.92 per day
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nick122590 View Post


and no. its not the kid from the recent thread.


nick122590 likes this.
Vogz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 12:50 PM   #9
Nemo me impune lacessit
 
Eagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Woodsticks, IL
Posts: 62,485
Casino cash: $169857200
15.03 per day
Default

Everything I've ever seen about #8 failures was around fueling issues, usually related to the car being tuned improperly.
Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 01:04 PM   #10
TCGs Far Right Leader
 
Chester Copperpot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Shithole, IL
Posts: 29,091
Casino cash: $6807400
8.65 per day
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle View Post
Everything I've ever seen about #8 failures was around fueling issues, usually related to the car being tuned improperly.
Pulling fuel + going full retard on timing + turning off knock sensor = blown #8
Chester Copperpot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 01:06 PM   #11
Ho fuckin Ho!
 
willizm's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Saint John, IN
Posts: 10,324
Casino cash: $45099400
2.77 per day
Default

I hope they take care of the issue. FWIW I saw a 5.0 with low miles and a procharger installed throw a rod on the dyno with conservative boost pressure and a spot on tune. During the pull the car did fine with no knock or great/conservative AFR, then during deceleration it threw a rod. I really like these 5.0's, but seeing things like this make me sad. I really do hope that Ford steps up and takes care of it though.
__________________
turbo: exhaust gasses go into the turbocharger and spin it, witchcraft happens and you go faster.
1998 Supra Turbo 6speed swap in progress | 2010 Escalade Premium | 2006 Highlander

willizm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 01:18 PM   #12
TCG Conspiracy Lead Investigator
 
tinfoilhat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Riding the Hubble
Posts: 36,377
Casino cash: $173494501
8.28 per day
Default

sounds like the ecoboost is better to beat on then the 5.0
GLADIATOR likes this.
__________________
"It's never too cold for swamp ass."

XBO - NinjaTurtlThong

tinfoilhat is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 01:19 PM   #13
Nemo me impune lacessit
 
Eagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Woodsticks, IL
Posts: 62,485
Casino cash: $169857200
15.03 per day
Default

lol, i dunno about that

A good read on the topic:
Another #8 - Ford Mustang Forums : Corral.net Mustang Forum
Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 01:19 PM   #14
 
C.Evans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Sycamore, IL
Posts: 3,705
Casino cash: $5769000
1.24 per day
Default

It's due to design of the cooling passages in the Coyote engine. The number 8 cylinder has the least amount of coolant passages surrounding it and is also set back the furthest in the engine bay. The ring gap is too small for the amount of heat that is created in the cylinder and it breaks the top ring land off of the piston after the ring ends butt together. Major cylinder wall scoring then happens. How is his oil consumption? Was there a cyl. 8 misfire code?
C.Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 01:21 PM   #15
I eat dirt
 
ilikemtb999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 68,455
Casino cash: $30743000
15.97 per day
Default

What junk
ktraver97ss and Euro like this.
__________________
85 blazer.........turbo, 1 ton axles, some stuff
70 Buick GS.......resurrection in progress
10 Tahoe SSV lowered Baja edition
14 Caprice PPV woop woop
ilikemtb999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 01:30 PM   #16
 
C.Evans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Sycamore, IL
Posts: 3,705
Casino cash: $5769000
1.24 per day
Default

Time to buy a hemi.
C.Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 01:36 PM   #17
Nemo me impune lacessit
 
Eagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Woodsticks, IL
Posts: 62,485
Casino cash: $169857200
15.03 per day
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by C.Evans View Post
It's due to design of the cooling passages in the Coyote engine. The number 8 cylinder has the least amount of coolant passages surrounding it and is also set back the furthest in the engine bay. The ring gap is too small for the amount of heat that is created in the cylinder and it breaks the top ring land off of the piston after the ring ends butt together. Major cylinder wall scoring then happens. How is his oil consumption? Was there a cyl. 8 misfire code?
I'm not sure about that... but maybe so

Everything I've read shows fueling, timing and KR to be the suspect causes of failures. #8 also happens to be the last cyl to get fuel from the stock rails.

That thread I posted is cool cuz good content is mainly from a tech repairing a car that was traded in to a Toyota dealer with #8 issues.
Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 01:50 PM   #18
 
nick122590's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: IOWA
Posts: 2,008
Casino cash: $5874622
0.68 per day
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagle View Post
What is this head issue you speak of?

Mine has been pretty solid. #8 has happened to others though, was definitely tune related in most cases however. Hopefully the dealer comes back with good news.
my buddy is into cars but when it comes to actual tech talk hes clueless. lol. all i know is something was wrong with the valves on the pessenger side head. not sure why both were replaced. im not naming the dealer yet. ill see how it turns out first. and yes. bran new literally off the showroom floor. i think it only has around 2k miles
nick122590 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 01:56 PM   #19
Nemo me impune lacessit
 
Eagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Woodsticks, IL
Posts: 62,485
Casino cash: $169857200
15.03 per day
Default

YIKES... THAT BLOWS!
Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 01:57 PM   #20
 
C.Evans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Sycamore, IL
Posts: 3,705
Casino cash: $5769000
1.24 per day
Default

A good test to see if the number 8 cylinder is getting too little fuel or too much timing... hold the throttle steady at 2,500 rpm, take a temperature reading of the exhaust manifold coming out of cylinder 8, now take a reading of any other cylinder. You should try that on your car.
C.Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 02:36 PM   #21
Nemo me impune lacessit
 
Eagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Woodsticks, IL
Posts: 62,485
Casino cash: $169857200
15.03 per day
Default

Seems that its understood that #8 runs leaner than the rest, even based on the install docs that come with a new crate 5.0:

Quote:
IMPORTANT NOTE: The calibration of the PCM you have received requires use of this air box/MAF sensor system
exactly as received. Any changes to the air inlet system will result in changes to how the air entering the engine is
measured and will require modification to the PCM's calibration.
Ford Racing recognizes that it may not be practical to package this Air Box/MAF sensor system in some vehicle
applications. The recommendations listed below are intended to serve as guidelines for designing an air inlet system that
will provide good control system performance once the control system calibration has been modified to work with the new
Air Inlet System:
1) Flow Profile: the MAF sensor should be located on a straight section of zip tube where the flow profile is
generally uniform. If the sensor cannot be located on a straight section put the sensor on the outside radius of the
zip tube so the sensor is located in the higher flow velocity area.
2) Flow Area: Keep the cross sectional area of the MAF sensor tube as close as possible to the cross sectional
area of the original induction system.
3) Flow quality: minimize flow direction changes and maintain smooth tubing to minimize air flow disturbances and
turbulence.
4) Flow pulsation: install sensor at least 6 to 8 inches upstream of the throttle body.
5) Transient performance: installing the sensor too far upstream of the throttle body (>24 inches) will result in
transient lean/rich spikes due to the additional amount of time required for the measured air flow to travel from the
MAF sensor to the intake manifold.
6) MAF sensor contamination: A) install sensor in upper half of cross sectional area to minimize possibility of
condensation coming in contact with the MAF sensor element. In other words, if a clock is superimposed on a
cross section of the zip tube, the sensor should be installed somewhere equal to or above the 9:00 and 3:00
positions. Most OEM applications have the sensor located at the 9:00 or 3:00 location. B) Sensor must be
installed downstream of air filter and upstream of blow-by inlet. Ideally, sensor should be located 3 diameters
upstream of the blow-by inlet.


This is interesting too:

The engine harness and controls package M-6017-A504V is designed to operate with the UEGO sensors in the
2011-2012 Mustang GT stock locations. Moving the UEGO sensors to alternate locations can result in the need to
recalibrate the PCM.
Here are some tips if sensors have to be relocated.
The best option is to locate the sensor so it is sampling from all 4 cylinders and at a distance that does not require
modification of the UEGO harness.
NOTE: Modification of the UEGO harness can affect function of UEGO sensor.
If your header design will not allow you to sample all 4 cylinders without UEGO harness modifications, a better alternative
is locating the UEGO sensor to sample from a single cylinder.
The cylinders that have (on average) the closest A/F ratio to the bank average are cylinder #4 (on bank 1) and cylinder #7
(on bank 2). If that's not possible due to packaging constraints, the next best choices are cylinder #3 (on bank 1) and
cylinder #8 (on bank 2). Calibration required!

It seems to imply to me that #8 is going to run leaner than the average at least a little-surely your second choice average would want to be leaner than average, rather than richer.
Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 02:39 PM   #22
I eat dirt
 
ilikemtb999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 68,455
Casino cash: $30743000
15.97 per day
Default

So are people just tuning a bit rich or is there a way to squeeze more from the #8 injector compared to the rest?
ilikemtb999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 02:40 PM   #23
 
C.Evans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Sycamore, IL
Posts: 3,705
Casino cash: $5769000
1.24 per day
Default

Bump up fuel pressure?
C.Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 02:45 PM   #24
TCGs Far Right Leader
 
Chester Copperpot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Shithole, IL
Posts: 29,091
Casino cash: $6807400
8.65 per day
Default

I've noticed there's two scenarios where the #8 issue has appeared. People who immediately put tunes on the brand new engine at <500mi or people who broke their engine in according to the manual and were easy on the car until then. The cars that haven't popped or don't have issues? The cars that were beaten like two dollar hookers from day one but waited to put a tune on or haven't at all. There's been a few cases of bone stock 5.0s popping #8.

I fall into the last category. My car ate a quart of oil from 28-4000mi and in the last 8000mi it hasn't burned a drop. Checked regularly every or every other gas fill up. Yes I'm that anal.
Chester Copperpot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2012, 03:36 PM   #25
Nemo me impune lacessit
 
Eagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Woodsticks, IL
Posts: 62,485
Casino cash: $169857200
15.03 per day
Default

Reconfigure the fuel feed to be in parallel rather than series would probably be good too.
Eagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.0.6 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
no new posts