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Old 03-25-2018, 09:59 PM   #1
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We all knew this was coming. So here it is... Let's talk about the Ghibli. But not just the regular Ghibli. We're going to talk about the Ghibli S Q4. Let's get durty.



What It Is

The Ghibli is Maserati's attempt to compete with the Germans in the mainstream market. It's intended to be an alternative to the 5 series, A6 and E300. Stock the Ghibli gets a twin turbo, Ferrari built V6 pushing 345 horsepower through the rear wheels. It's a nice enough car but at a $70,000 starting price you were no faster than a BMW 535 and you didn't get parking sensors, navigation and a bunch of other stuff.

The S Q4 fixed a lot of that. It added adaptive HID headlights (versus fixed), Navigation, dimming mirrors, automatic high beams and windshield wipers... You know, basic luxury stuff. Beyond that it bumped the power output from 345hp to 404hp and dropped the 0-60 time from 5.6 to a respectable 4.8, added a firmer suspension and upped the brakes from 4 piston in front and single fixed floating calipers in the rear to 6 piston all around. And now we're in business.



What's It Like Inside?

It's a mixed bag. If someone were to show you just a picture you might think it looks really nice and that's because it does. It's when you start looking at things closer that you realize all isn't as it appears to be. The headlight switches are pulled straight from the Chrysler parts bin, as are the window switches, as is the 8.4" Uconnect infotainment system.



At first glance this is a little disappointing but not devastating. And then you go to use the stuff. The parts bin turn signal stalk feels cheap, like it was pulled straight from a Dodge Dart and indeed it probably was. The shifter, aside for it's well documented ergonomic issues, feels hollow and insubstantial, nothing like a BMW. The steering wheel is big, as in large diameter, as in did they pull this from a pickup truck? This is a theme that carries throughout the car. Much of the switchgear you interact with the most, indeed almost all of it, feels quite cheap.

Then there's Uconnect which is re-branded as Maserati Touch Control but why bother? It's otherwise identical. It worked well in 2011 when I first saw it in a Charger and by 2014 it was tired. It works ok but is very low res and the user interface looks very old. I have no complaints with the system. I just wish they did more to differentiate it.

But it's not all bad. It seems the Maserati specific stuff - the stuff they couldn't just steal from another FCA car - is much better. The switches in the top console are all very nice to use and feel much more substantial as do the door handles. Build quality otherwise is actually quite nice. The leather is thick, pretty much everything is soft touch and the doors close with a solid thud. It's not as nice as a 5 series but not as bad as a 3 series. If I had to compare it to something the Model S would be it. It's not going to blow you away but it's far from bad.

On a side note, Doug Demuro famously stuck a tube of toothpaste in between the door panel and the B pillar on the inside of his rental Ghibli, claiming the panel gaps were atrocious and that there was no other car on the market with a gap this big. That seemed a little suspect then but after looking at the rest of the car (and other cars) it's a load of crap. The door panel is purposely angled in so that it clears it's opening. It's the same story on my Q5 and the rest of the Ghibli interior doesn't suffer from inconsistent gaps so it makes no sense that they could purposely screw up this one gap on every car. It just doesn't pass the BS sniffer test but Doug is nothing if not consistently inconsistent with his critiques. In other words: the atrociousness of the Ghibli's interior has been vastly oversold. It's fine but it's not class leading.

Technology

This is why most reviewers shat all over the original Ghiblis. $68,000 got you a car with no navigation, no parking sensors, fixed HID lights, no auto dimming mirrors and a bunch of other missing stuff that most would consider must-haves on most luxury cars. Then there's the stuff that you just couldn't get at any price. Lane departure warnings, adaptive cruise, heads up display, etc. Nowhere to be found. In terms of safety this car was as dumb as you could get. To Maserati's credit, they've added all of this in recent years.

But then there's the radio. Guys, the radio. The radio requires a post all of it's own. It's probably the worst sound system I've heard since the Grand Prix days and the no-bass Bose systems they used to sell in those cars. Mind you, I got the "premium" system in my car which is 600 watts and adds a center channel speaker and a "subwoofer". I put the word subwoofer in quotes because it's literally a 6x9 speaker with a 2" diameter magnet open air mounted to the rear parcel shelf.

There is an entire frequency range missing in this car's sound system. You go from tinny highs to a flat midrange and then when you get to the higher bass notes they're just gone. And I don't mean there's a speaker that's trying to recreate them and just doing a poor job. I mean they're just not there. It's as if they knew the limitations of their "subwoofer" and set it's crossover frequency too low, leaving a gap between the interior speakers and the sub. What that leaves you with is really muddy lows and just a mediocre system all around. I bought a 2013 5 series for someone on the forum and drove it for a few days. I remember telling him to go for the Harmon Kardon system and not the base but he didn't really care too much about the stereo. When I went to get the car I listened to the base system and was shocked at how great it sounded. It didn't hit as hard as the Harmon Kardon system did but it was clear, and loud and sounded good. This is not that. I think my brother's old 2006 Cobalt had a stereo that sounded better than this.

What It's Like To Drive

And so here we are. The Ghibli is a bad luxury car when compared to it's cheaper competition but that's not why you buy a Maserati is it? You buy a Maserati because it sounds like unicorns having sex and is fun to drive. Does the first Maserati for the masses deliver and is it enough to wipe out the car's other shortcomings?

Yes. Yes it very much is on the assumption that you're buying it used. At $100,000 new for an S Q4 it's a much harder pill to swallow but at $30,000? I'd argue you'd have a hard time finding a better, more unique car at that price point. The car is an absolute delight to drive. First there's the sound. Throw it into sport mode and it sounds exactly the same as any other straight up exotic car, burping and popping between shifts and making a racket that's distinctly Italian. It sounds so good that the rest of it could be terrible and it would almost still be worth driving.

From a stop you press the gas pedal and there's a clear delay that conspires to make the car feel slower than it is. I don't know if it's turbo lag or throttle mapping but this isn't a drag racing car. Where this car thrives is from a roll where it's already in the meat of it's power band and once you're there the power doesn't let off until you shift, at which point it throws you right back into the sweat spot and you start all over.

The suspension is firm though not too firm. Some larger bumps around the city will upset the chassis but I find it to be perfect for a car of this type. The brakes are large 6 piston calipers on each corner and they bite hard. This car, at least in S Q4 trim, has no problem shedding speed. The all wheel drive system acts like a rear wheel drive setup until it has to do otherwise which allows the car to keep it's sport rear wheel drive feel.

And then there's the steering. I watch a lot of car reviews and I'll be honest, I never really understood what they meant when they said a car's steering had no feedback. The Model S and X have long been panned for having almost video game like steering and I always though this was kind of BS criticism because both cars handle quite well and both go where you want them to go when you turn the wheel and isn't that the point? And that's my bar for good steering. The Tesla's all electric system, the i3's all electric system and the Q5's system which is just way over-boosted with no sporty pretensions at all. And so the first time I took the Ghibli onto Mulholland and felt the wheel pushing back at me I was briefly confused. Then I realized it was feedback and I could tell where the car's limits were through the wheel and it felt good. Getting back into the Tesla was decidedly different and disappointing in this one aspect.

All of this is to say that the Ghibli is a car that shrinks around you when pushed and never feels close to it's limits. And it does it all in a way that elicits passion and excitement. So much so that it's not the Model S or the Q5 I'm dying to get back from their rentals next week; it's the god damned Ghibli, Dodge Dart window switches and all. And it's at this point that I realize that the missing adaptive cruise control, and the blind spot monitoring, and the heads up display are all irrelevant because they're not things I'm driving this car for. The 2014 5 series is a much better 5 series than the Maserati and it's $10,000 cheaper too but as amazing as it is, it's not a Maserati.

And here's where I come off the Rails

Everybody has a big chub for the Chevy SS but instead of spending 30k on a used Chevy you should be spending it on a used Ghibli S Q4 which I'm going to argue is probably the best value in used performance cars right now. I paid $30,250 for my 2014 with 43,000 miles and still under factory warranty. That is a damn steal for this car and I'd argue that the 2014's and 2015's are bottoming out on their depreciation curves now because Ghibli hasn't changed the way the car looks really at all but has added all those missing safety features to it as well as upped the interior's quality. All of this is conspiring to keep the car relevant and I think it's really going to prop up the price of the older model year cars.

Worried about reliability? Well that's where it being a Chrysler seems to be a good thing. So far reliability on them has been good. The car uses a standard ZF transmission. The Ferrari built V6, which seems like a cost of ownership experience nightmares are made of, is rather cheap to maintain and so far doesn't suffer from any common issues. Most of the car's TSBs or service campaigns have been for minor issues. Other than consumables costing more money and requiring replacement more often, this isn't a bad car by any stretch.

Skip to 1:50 for the good stuff (the exhaust).



Here's one for under 30K with the nicer all leather interior... https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sg...513717806.html
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Old 03-25-2018, 10:15 PM   #2
 
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I need to tag @Jack.
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Old 03-25-2018, 10:42 PM   #3
 
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Those are really nice rides.
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Old 03-25-2018, 11:03 PM   #4
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You really need your own anti demuro YouTube channel. I'm starting to tire of his reviews.
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Old 03-25-2018, 11:06 PM   #5
 
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Mikey Fresh.
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Old 03-26-2018, 06:57 AM   #6
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Default Mike K Reviews Something Italian

Regarding the sound system - it looks like 14-17 had a stand alone option for a 15 speaker Bowers and Wilkins sound system which Iím sure is light years better than the ďpremiumĒ standard version. Probably harder to find (kind of like finding the B&O on the 5 series is).

B&W doesnít put their name on crap. http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/car-au...ti/Ghibli.html

Curious, does it have power folding mirrors?

Great review Mike.
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Old 03-26-2018, 07:28 AM   #7
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text me before you off this because too many turo renters farted in it
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Old 03-26-2018, 08:11 AM   #8
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I've seen those cars around and wondered what the hell they were.

Now I know.

Thanks Mike.
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Old 03-26-2018, 09:20 AM   #9
 
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What an ugly SOB that car is...
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Old 03-26-2018, 09:47 AM   #10
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike K View Post
Everybody has a big chub for the Chevy SS but ...
Isn't the SS chub because of 6MT though? Agreed there are a plethora of cars I'd get in AT/DCT flavor before getting a 6AT SS. Not this particular one, but that's just because there are some subjective things I just don't like very much.

Seems like a very well thought out and thorough piece.

Agreed about all the DD hate in here. Very tired these days.
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Old 03-26-2018, 09:58 AM   #11
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It just doesn't pass the BS sniffer test but Doug is nothing if not consistently inconsistent with his critiques.
Exactly why I cannot stand that guy.


Great write up Mike
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Old 03-26-2018, 10:09 AM   #12
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Great review, I can't get past the looks though - it just doesn't look good at all. It's like a new Miata and a New Maybach made sexy time, they'd make that car.
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Old 03-26-2018, 10:10 AM   #13
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i really don't mind how it looks, kind of like it actually.
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Old 03-26-2018, 10:13 AM   #14
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Id be more worried about being targeted for driving a Maserati and people thinking you are loaded. I hardly think anyone realized they are just chryslers

For 30k, its a good way to look wayyy better off then you actually are
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Old 03-26-2018, 02:15 PM   #15
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Please drive a quadrifoglio and review
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Old 03-27-2018, 07:48 AM   #16
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The anti-Demuro review is any fair car review.

Nice write-up. If all it does is drive well then Iíll take the SS. Sound preference is of course completely subjective, so for me Iíll take V8 noises (and no turbo lag) all day every day.

Any SSís in the Turo fleet out there?
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Old 03-27-2018, 11:00 AM   #17
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The anti-Demuro review is any fair car review.

Nice write-up. If all it does is drive well then Iíll take the SS. Sound preference is of course completely subjective, so for me Iíll take V8 noises (and no turbo lag) all day every day.

Any SSís in the Turo fleet out there?
Yeah I wouldn't necessarily blame you. For me, the improved cabin over the SS is enough to sway me in the direction of the Maserati. Long term it seems like the SS would be cheaper to own though. Really the only point of me making that comparison was because they are about the same price.

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Id be more worried about being targeted for driving a Maserati and people thinking you are loaded. I hardly think anyone realized they are just chryslers

For 30k, its a good way to look wayyy better off then you actually are
They're everywhere out here so I'm not sure anyone is being targeted. But yeah, I could see rolling through the suburbs of Chicago with this and your neighbors thinking you're some kind of high roller. People look at this more than the Tesla.

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Great review, I can't get past the looks though - it just doesn't look good at all. It's like a new Miata and a New Maybach made sexy time, they'd make that car.
See I think it looks objectively great. But looks are subjective. I realize it's not everyone's cup of tea. I think it's one of the best looking cars on the road. It's appearance has never been my complaint.

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Isn't the SS chub because of 6MT though? Agreed there are a plethora of cars I'd get in AT/DCT flavor before getting a 6AT SS. Not this particular one, but that's just because there are some subjective things I just don't like very much.

Seems like a very well thought out and thorough piece.

Agreed about all the DD hate in here. Very tired these days.
Yeah I think the SS got a lot of love because it was the last real American sports sedan with a manual transmission. It was a dumb comparison on my part. I just made it because they're about the same money as the Ghibli used.

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Regarding the sound system - it looks like 14-17 had a stand alone option for a 15 speaker Bowers and Wilkins sound system which Iím sure is light years better than the ďpremiumĒ standard version. Probably harder to find (kind of like finding the B&O on the 5 series is).

B&W doesnít put their name on crap. Maserati Ghibli | Bowers & Wilkins

Curious, does it have power folding mirrors?

Great review Mike.
Yes on the power mirrors. I haven't found a single car with that B&W system. I have the premium and despite all my efforts, I haven't been able to get anything resembling bass out of the system. If you guys want some insight into some true Chrysler engineering... People were complaining about the parcel shelves rattling in the premium sound cars with the shelf mounted "subwoofer". In response to that, Maserati issued a service bulletin where they'd lower the sub settings from 10db to 7db, making the sub even more mediocre than it already was. Then people complained even more about the piss poor sound and Maserati issued a new directive to turn the db back up and also install dynamat between the sub and the parcel shelf. Talk about some half ass fixes to fix half ass fixes.

For my part, I'm picking up a Kicker all in one hideaway subwoofer today. I'm hoping that's enough to balance the system out so I don't have to remove the mention of the premium system from my Turo ad which I really don't want to do because I think that's important to most people and will be a good differentiator.

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You really need your own anti demuro YouTube channel. I'm starting to tire of his reviews.
I did a couple videos yesterday for you guys and I must have had my hand on the microphone because they were basically all muffled. I own a camera company. It would take minimal effort to set up a nice camera and a tripod and do some videos. I'm not sure why I don't.

Truth be told, I'm a regular watcher of Demuro and don't really dislike him but he needs to trim some of the bullshit. He works a little too hard at finding "quirks and features" that he sometimes just makes them up. And don't get me started on his drives where he's taking the car down a fucking suburban road, doing nothing but accelerating and braking as if that's going to tell you what any car is really like.

The video I took yesterday was on the Angeles Crest Highway up in the San Gabriels.
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Old 03-27-2018, 11:05 AM   #18
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I think the SS is a perfect comparison, and a very interesting one Iíd like to see in a head to head. People shop by price, after all.
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Old 03-27-2018, 11:29 AM   #19
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Well I mean... You were asking for what people would like to see right? There you go!

Honestly, that's the kind of oddball comparison that nobody would ever make that would get page views. Kind of like the original Tesla P85 vs M5 video that basically put the Model S on the map as a real car.
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Old 03-27-2018, 11:48 AM   #20
 
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I don't think it was a bad comparison, I was just addressing the "chub" part as it IMO had a lot to do with an angle the Maser can't cover (manual).

Does it do 185 though?

EDIT: Actually as I was reading it the first time, I thought a lot of the issues you pointed out had solid parallels with the SS, namely cheap parts bin feeling here and there, the fact that the infotainment constantly reminds you it's from 1920, worst sound system ever, etc....
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Old 03-27-2018, 01:44 PM   #21
 
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Pretty good Review.

I had a 2015 Ghibli SQ4, and now have a 2017 SQ4.

Some of my feedback: the 2017 is a much better car, upgraded infotainment unit that actually looks like it's from this decade. Luxury features you'd expect, like blindspot, adaptive cruise control, 360 degree camera, foot activated trunk etc. Steering is more precise and ride quality is better.

My 2015 had a FabSpeed ECU tune which minimized turbo lag, and bumped up the power quite a bit.. in the 6+ months I've had my 2017, I really haven't missed the tune, so I'm not sure I'll do it again.

Some things to keep in mind... the dealer will rape you on any non warranty service. Oil change is about $450, one axle brake job is ~$2k. you're much better off doing maintenance yourself,it's no different than any other car.

obligatory pics...


The 2015:



The 2017

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Old 03-27-2018, 01:46 PM   #22
 
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Did I get a ride in the 15 or 17? I think it was the 17, ya?
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Old 03-27-2018, 02:06 PM   #23
 
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Did I get a ride in the 15 or 17? I think it was the 17, ya?
don't remember.. probably the 2015?.. I got the 2017 at the end of Aug
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Old 03-27-2018, 02:06 PM   #24
 
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Oh wait, you had a loaner car when you came to Elgin.
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Old 03-27-2018, 02:25 PM   #25
 
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Oh wait, you had a loaner car when you came to Elgin.
Yep.. you're right.. I was getting some TSB work done.. good memory
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