Thinking about a used Navigator..

[bikrboy128]

This is the reason why I like to stay away from interference engine vehicles with a timing belt. I'm not mechanically inclined and shop prices to timing belt/water pump tend to be high...

parts and labor for a 4.7 toyota v8 is usually $800-$1000. great, reliable, nice riding vehicles though. i'd say it's worth it, even with doing the t-belt every 100k miles

 

[Nay_Sayer]

Last note here, 3rd gen Explorers with the V-8 built after 2003 are exceptionally stout trucks as well, and you could get a cherry example of one for under $3k. I'm a HUGE fan of 2nd gen Explorers (and have one as my DD), and push them on everyone, but if you'r looking at Navigators I assume you have a larger/more common hauling need?

How difficult is doing an engine swap on the 3rd generation V8 Explorers?

Thanks.

 

[Dasfinc]

How difficult is doing an engine swap on the 3rd generation V8 Explorers?

Thanks.

It's a bit of a hassle; it's still body on frame, and I do not believe the cradle drops, so the drive train has to come Up and Out (which means the Transmission needs to get disconnected with the motor still in the truck).

The Modular motors are wide bitches, so I'd imagine its harder to remove than the SBF in my second gen truck. (Granted I've removed my fair share of them)

 

[CMNTMXR57]

parts and labor for a 4.7 toyota v8 is usually $800-$1000. great, reliable, nice riding vehicles though. i'd say it's worth it, even with doing the t-belt every 100k miles

And I guess that's where I see things differently. My low quality Chevy (I say that tongue in cheek), is now 18 years old and gets used like a tank (pulling trailers, plowing snow...), yet I have never spent $800 - $1,000 in parts and labor on ANYTHING on it's small block V8, much less having to do so every 100k to keep it from destroying itself.

Parts are stupid cheap (especially if you shop at Rock Auto). The engines overall are pretty damn simple which means they're pretty stupid easy to work on (admittedly I worked on them for a living at a Chevy dealer back in the day, so I know them quite well), but still, many, if not most here, seem to be "mechanically inclined". So again, minimal investment and time you're going to spend in your garage on a Saturday or Sunday anyway, they run just as long. Other things may fall apart, but what won't when start putting decades of age/mileage on them especially up here in our climate.

 

[Nay_Sayer]

Last note here, 3rd gen Explorers with the V-8 built after 2003 are exceptionally stout trucks as well, and you could get a cherry example of one for under $3k. I'm a HUGE fan of 2nd gen Explorers (and have one as my DD), and push them on everyone, but if you'r looking at Navigators I assume you have a larger/more common hauling need?

How much do you know about the transmissions on the 3rd gen Explorers?

Thanks.

 

[Primalzer]

The automatic rear wheel drive and 4WD Ford transmissions have generally been fairly robust. From the AOD, AODE, 4R70W, 5R55W, 6RXX, they've all been pretty good. There's bigger issues with the V6 engine, if I remember correctly, but Das would know more about that.

 

[Dasfinc]

How much do you know about the transmissions on the 3rd gen Explorers?

Thanks.

The automatic rear wheel drive and 4WD Ford transmissions have generally been fairly robust. From the AOD, AODE, 4R70W, 5R55W, 6RXX, they've all been pretty good. There's bigger issues with the V6 engine, if I remember correctly, but Das would know more about that.

The most common transmission problems I see behind Explorers is low fluid, due to the coolers or lines sometimes geting rusty or leaking. The 5R55 family of transmissions no longer have Fluid Dipsticks or Top-Fills, and they are strictly bottom fill with a drain plug and fill plug.

This means they are commonly neglected, and will slip/shudder when Cold or under load if they are low on fluid (and then there is no telling how much damage may have been done or how long its been low). I wouldn't normally touch a 3rd gen Explorer or Aviator with Transmission problems unless I was getting a screaming deal on it because "You never know how bad it may be" and MERC-V is also not especially cheap if you are chasing down a problem.

That all being said; they are reasonably robust/strong transmissions so long as they aren't run out of fluid. If you buy one with the intent to replace the transmission, I'd recommend getting it rebuilt over a Junkyard unit (as you still run the same risk with a Junkyard one of some idiot running it out of fluid).

If you are going to test drive one; make sure the truck is DEAD cold on start, if it was just run before you got there it can hide all kinds of things.

There's bigger issues with the V6 engine, if I remember correctly, but Das would know more about that.

Timing Chains; I typically recommend avoiding all 4.0 SOHC Trucks built until after a late 2004 build date (when they finally changed the design of the tensioner assembly to stop disintegrating every 70K miles....). It wouldn't even be THAT big a deal if servicing the rear wasn't an engine-out repair item....

This is another situation where a 'warm' truck can hide how bad it is. Fire up a Dead-Cold ford 4.0 SOHC engine built around the late 90's (assuming its in decent shape), and you can almost ALWAYS hear timing chain rattle until oil pressure builds because of the shitty design.

Early 4.6 V-8 trucks (02-03?) also have occasional timing chain issues (Which are obvious on cold-start with a 'rocks in a dryer' kind of sound timing chain slack makes), but they are at least serviceable from the front, and is a weekend-warrior type project Vs. the entire engine out situation for the V-6....

 

[Primalzer]

Timing Chains; I typically recommend avoiding all 4.0 SOHC Trucks built until after a late 2004 build date (when they finally changed the design of the tensioner assembly to stop disintegrating every 70K miles....). It wouldn't even be THAT big a deal if servicing the rear wasn't an engine-out repair item....

This is another situation where a 'warm' truck can hide how bad it is. Fire up a Dead-Cold ford 4.0 SOHC engine built around the late 90's (assuming its in decent shape), and you can almost ALWAYS hear timing chain rattle until oil pressure builds because of the shitty design.

Early 4.6 V-8 trucks (02-03?) also have occasional timing chain issues (Which are obvious on cold-start with a 'rocks in a dryer' kind of sound timing chain slack makes), but they are at least serviceable from the front, and is a weekend-warrior type project Vs. the entire engine out situation for the V-6....

Is that the same timing chain/tensioner issue that's followed the mod motors? I thought it was more prevalent on the 5.4's as opposed to the 4.6's. And were those early 4.6's the 3V's or 2V's?

 

[Dasfinc]

Is that the same timing chain/tensioner issue that's followed the mod motors? I thought it was more prevalent on the 5.4's as opposed to the 4.6's. And were those early 4.6's the 3V's or 2V's?

I think generally Ford changed materials in the tensioners in the early 00's due to too many pre-mature failures in several motor families.

The Nylon or plastic or whatever they were using did not hold up well with age/abuse and became brittle. They changed to a metal plate backed assembly in like late 2002 or 2003.

People on the Ranger and Explorer forums that are especially attached to their V-6 SOHC trucks change to the revised design ones and put 200K+ on the motors without issue. I just always Opt for the 5.0 SBF because it doesn't have wear items like that and happily run to 200K miles so long as they have fluid in them.

Here is the rattle resolution process thread for the V-6's on ExplorerForum: http://www.explorerforum.com/forums...ain-rattle-resolution-process-sohc-v6.278100/

Generally the failures were attributed to trucks that were 'used hard and put away wet' as they got older kind of thing, and given that Explorers and F series trucks would be tasked to things like towing and heavy loads more than Mustangs/Vics/Thunderbirds/etc/etc/etc that had this motor before them, is probably why it came to light in the timeframe that it did.

 

[Nay_Sayer]

This means they are commonly neglected, and will slip/shudder when Cold or under load if they are low on fluid (and then there is no telling how much damage may have been done or how long its been low). I wouldn't normally touch a 3rd gen Explorer or Aviator with Transmission problems unless I was getting a screaming deal on it because "You never know how bad it may be" and MERC-V is also not especially cheap if you are chasing down a problem.

That all being said; they are reasonably robust/strong transmissions so long as they aren't run out of fluid. If you buy one with the intent to replace the transmission, I'd recommend getting it rebuilt over a Junkyard unit (as you still run the same risk with a Junkyard one of some idiot running it out of fluid).

What should I expect to pay for a transmission rebuild on a 3rd gen 4WD Explorer?

 

[Dasfinc]

What should I expect to pay for a transmission rebuild on a 3rd gen 4WD Explorer?

That I could not tell you unfortunately, the Removal and Reinstall are on the time-consuming side, I'd imagine a 'Bench' rebuild could be done for $400-600 where you physically bring a shop the transmission. I'm partial to Atomic Trans in Lombard for basic rebuild work - (630) 941-1270 Transmission Repair in Villa Park IL | Atomic Transmissions

 

[Nay_Sayer]

That I could not tell you unfortunately, the Removal and Reinstall are on the time-consuming side, I'd imagine a 'Bench' rebuild could be done for $400-600 where you physically bring a shop the transmission. I'm partial to Atomic Trans in Lombard for basic rebuild work - (630) 941-1270 Transmission Repair in Villa Park IL | Atomic Transmissions

Ok, thanks.

 

[Nay_Sayer]

Last note here, 3rd gen Explorers with the V-8 built after 2003 are exceptionally stout trucks as well, and you could get a cherry example of one for under $3k. I'm a HUGE fan of 2nd gen Explorers (and have one as my DD), and push them on everyone, but if you'r looking at Navigators I assume you have a larger/more common hauling need?

If you DON'T need to haul crazy things, you can get send gen V-8 explorers all day long for around a grand... V-8 Second Gen Explorers really only have 2 common issues, front suspension components are often neglected and cause bad camber wear (Control arms, ball joints), and Rust that hides under running boards, or in the Rockers. The SBF 5.0 and 4R70W are nearly bullet-proof so long as people keep fluids in them.

Here's my current DD:

http://www.thechicagogarage.com/for...de-mistake-aka-dasfinc-has-mental-issues.html

[MENTION=126]Dasfinc[/MENTION]

Might go look @ a second gen Explorer. The guy says the trans starts slipping when he hits speeds above 40. Any idea of what might be going on? He says the slipping started a week ago..

 

[Dasfinc]

[MENTION=126]Dasfinc[/MENTION]

Might go look @ a second gen Explorer. The guy says the trans starts slipping when he hits speeds above 40. Any idea of what might be going on? He says the slipping started a week ago..

5.0 AWD? The trans cooler lines are vulnerable to rust here in the Midwest, and low fluid would cause slipping. I think all of them have the cooler (at least I have never seen one without it).

Granted, I literally have a good spare 2000 AWD 4R70W transmission sitting on a shelf in my garage if you get it cheap enough lol.

 

[Dasfinc]

This is the white twin of my truck:

https://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/cto/d/ford-explorer-eddie-bauer/6228500397.html

 

[Dasfinc]

I found the one your thinking about, it is the twin of my truck lol

https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/cto/d/ford-explorer/6227225828.html

It's sitting a little low in the rear, make sure it doesn't have Autoride (rear air suspension).

Super uncommon option, but I haven't heard a single good thing about it.

You can fix rear sag with Add-A-Leafs for $40 for the pair on a side note.

Lastly, I wouldn't pay more than like $300 for a truck with CELs and a slipping transmission, that white one I posted didn't mention any big issues in the ad at least [MENTION=13054]Nay_Sayer[/MENTION]

 

[Nay_Sayer]

I found the one your thinking about, it is the twin of my truck lol

https://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/cto/d/ford-explorer/6227225828.html

It's sitting a little low in the rear, make sure it doesn't have Autoride (rear air suspension).

Super uncommon option, but I haven't heard a single good thing about it.

You can fix rear sag with Add-A-Leafs for $40 for the pair on a side note.

Lastly, I wouldn't pay more than like $300 for a truck with CELs and a slipping transmission, that white one I posted didn't mention any big issues in the ad at least [MENTION=13054]Nay_Sayer[/MENTION]

Yes, that's the one I was asking about. Guy says it's 4wd not AWD. If the trans needs to be rebuilt, what's the worst I'm looking @? $1500? [MENTION=126]Dasfinc[/MENTION]

 

[Dasfinc]

Yes, that's the one I was asking about. Guy says it's 4wd not AWD. If the trans needs to be rebuilt, what's the worst I'm looking @? $1500?

There is no such thing as a 4wd V-8 Explorer; they only came as AWD (For Second Gen Trucks);

You can tell because there will be no 2wd/4wdhi/4wdlo knob on the dash like the V-6 ones have, but obviously it will still have CV joints on the front easily visible.

Seriously; I'll sell you the trans I have sitting here for cheap, flush the thing out, slam it in, and call it a day if just topping it off with fluid doesn't save it. A shop will likely charge you $1500 for R&R.

You CAN convert them to true 4X4's (Which I'm doing, and requires some F-150 pieces), but yea; he's wrong, its an AWD truck. They are all 35/65% AWD Splits with the AWD case (And I have a spare one of those also floating around).

I would recommend taking a look at that White one unless something's seriously wrong with it; you could probably get it for like $700 and not need a transmission immediately.

 

[Nay_Sayer]

There is no such thing as a 4wd V-8 Explorer; they only came as AWD (For Second Gen Trucks);

You can tell because there will be no 2wd/4wdhi/4wdlo knob on the dash like the V-6 ones have, but obviously it will still have CV joints on the front easily visible.

Seriously; I'll sell you the trans I have sitting here for cheap, flush the thing out, slam it in, and call it a day if just topping it off with fluid doesn't save it. A shop will likely charge you $1500 for R&R.

You CAN convert them to true 4X4's (Which I'm doing, and requires some F-150 pieces), but yea; he's wrong, its an AWD truck. They are all 35/65% AWD Splits with the AWD case (And I have a spare one of those also floating around).

I would recommend taking a look at that White one unless something's seriously wrong with it; you could probably get it for like $700 and not need a transmission immediately.

I was looking at the white one but quite frankly that color combination is horrendous. Yeah, I know, that's the wrong reason not to buy it if the thing is in good order but - my god - is it hard for me to look at. Lol..

 

[Dasfinc]

I was looking at the white one but quite frankly that color combination is horrendous. Yeah, I know, that's the wrong reason not to buy it if the thing is in good order but - my god - is it hard for me to look at. Lol..

There's a Green and Gold one on Clist also right now, but its a 6 cylinder

 

[Rent Free]

might be out of reach but im still mad my wife got rid of the 2008 navigator we had.

that generation didnt have much for air ride issues. ours never had any while we had it. bought with 92ishk on it i beleive and sold with over 140k.

only thing i had to fix was a door handle hood and rear hatch struts and a leaky exhaust manifold.

other than that i loved it. 4x4 you can actually turn off unlike the denali and escalade. 5.4 was decent mileage and towed 20' encloused trailer pretty good with a trailer brake.

Lots of room and cant wait until my wife gets rid of this damn ford edge amd goes back to a fullsize suv.

Ecoboost Expedition is likely next.