Oh, The sad reality as time marches on. :-(
- Thread starter zenriddles
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The thing is that back in the day there were so many engine, trans and rear end combos. The faster drag cars were rare combos hence why they currently fetch big dollars. Plus without emissions and safety regulations like we currently have in place, you could push the envelope. The modern equivalent would be like a Mustang Cobra Jet, which is a factory built car running 8's. It isn't street legal but would have been in the 60's. That goes to show how much technology has progressed.
Most of the cars weren't very fast due to tire technology at the time and how horsepower was calculated (gross vs. net).
https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2013/08/13/Horsepower
I about collapsed at the MCACN show a couple years ago when they had 5-6 of them there together out of the 14 that were made.
yeah i used to push one of the really really good ones around last year occasionally for photos.
k thanks
All the old guys talk about their old cars being fast because all they had to compare them to was what they drove next to back in the day. 14's with old ass technology seems cool to me. Oh and my dad had a 69 Chevelle SS with an L88. He talk about just straight embarrassing cars by like 8 car lengths + back then.
Not to mention tons of people back then never left their muscle car stock. Holley was huge back then and you could go to their place and have them "race tune" your car for free if you slapped a Holley sticker on your ride.
Not to mention tons of people back then never left their muscle car stock. Holley was huge back then and you could go to their place and have them "race tune" your car for free if you slapped a Holley sticker on your ride.
14's were quick for a stock street car. But install headers, retune the carb, suspension and slicks and they would run 11's. My boss and a buddy has a 67 and 69 Z/28 that was a national record holder in one of the stock classes. So even a 302 was able to get into the 11's. Granted not in full street trim.
L88
11.44 without going into the motor, on stock size tires and wheels, full weight... ..
ya... old cars suck
I love that class, don't get me wrong. But that is far from a "showroom stock" car. But does show what potential these engines have with stock casting heads, intake, exhaust manifolds and so on.
But then again, now a days a NHRA stock class 302 rated at 235hp runs well into the 10's. Yes, not a fair comparison but just an example of what drag racers can do to get the most out of a combo versus your typical guy on a thursday night test and tune session.
one of the coolest parts about this car, was an original story I saw, that they pulled it, with a wagon, with the original owner working the brakes of the 'vette, while his wife dragged the vette with the wagon
There were no SUV back then. If you owned a pick up truck you probably were using it for work. So station wagons were very common for tow vehicles. Add a hitch and two wheel dolly or modify the bumper of your car and drag it by that.
I don't believe the guy was fixing the brakes while towing the car with a dolly. Sounds like a "tall tale" to me.
The styling just can't be repeated. These cars didn't have the bulkiness of today. The front and rear ends are much smaller on the older cars. Hard to make a slick and smooth looking front end when you are forced to have the whole front end closed off for aerodynamics.
I am amazed more car people I know go to this event. The event has gotten incredibly rare, low production cars to feature. Stuff you normally do not see. A couple years ago I had only seen a handful of aero cars at car shows and cruise nights. They had several dozens of then. Insane what that show brings together.
Mopar was probably the best with that. Along with fender and bumpers being made of thin aluminum. It is cool to hear stories from the engineers and "skunk works" building one off cars to street race in Detroit. Trying to get the locals to think that if they bought a car it would do the same thing. But those were such bad ass ringer cars. lmao
14's were quick for a stock street car. But install headers, retune the carb, suspension and slicks and they would run 11's. My boss and a buddy has a 67 and 69 Z/28 that was a national record holder in one of the stock classes. So even a 302 was able to get into the 11's. Granted not in full street trim.
I love that class, don't get me wrong. But that is far from a "showroom stock" car. But does show what potential these engines have with stock casting heads, intake, exhaust manifolds and so on.
But then again, now a days a NHRA stock class 302 rated at 235hp runs well into the 10's. Yes, not a fair comparison but just an example of what drag racers can do to get the most out of a combo versus your typical guy on a thursday night test and tune session.
There were no SUV back then. If you owned a pick up truck you probably were using it for work. So station wagons were very common for tow vehicles. Add a hitch and two wheel dolly or modify the bumper of your car and drag it by that.
I don't believe the guy was fixing the brakes while towing the car with a dolly. Sounds like a "tall tale" to me.
The styling just can't be repeated. These cars didn't have the bulkiness of today. The front and rear ends are much smaller on the older cars. Hard to make a slick and smooth looking front end when you are forced to have the whole front end closed off for aerodynamics.
I am amazed more car people I know go to this event. The event has gotten incredibly rare, low production cars to feature. Stuff you normally do not see. A couple years ago I had only seen a handful of aero cars at car shows and cruise nights. They had several dozens of then. Insane what that show brings together.
Mopar was probably the best with that. Along with fender and bumpers being made of thin aluminum. It is cool to hear stories from the engineers and "skunk works" building one off cars to street race in Detroit. Trying to get the locals to think that if they bought a car it would do the same thing. But those were such bad ass ringer cars. lmao
you misunderstood me/i said it wrong...
working the brakes as in actually pressing the brakes of the car to keep it from ramming the wagon.
there was a photo of it too.
I actually think the opposite is happening, there are so many companies making reproduction parts these days. OPG, AMD, TA performance, etc.
15 years ago I had to hunt for an oem oil pump for my Buick, now TA performance makes a completely new casting that flows more and better than stock all for a reasonable price. Same thing with a grille for it. 70 was a 1 year only grille/bumper and a cracked stocker was selling for easily a grand. Now OPG makes a reproduction for $500
i dont know what you're arguing
it was bought from the factory... what's your lame-dick argument for the hemi cars?
not giving credit, where credit is due in these old cars that ripped and actually made power is dumb.
Yeah but that's the exception that proves the rule. By and large most muscle cars kind of sucked. Maybe not for their time but now? Almost certainly.
Not surprised by the minivan thing. As already said I'd be curious to see if they could pass muster with some good A/T tires as per a typical car these days. If you look at what the Roadkill guys do they got beat out a lot by a Kia Rio of all things. That should tell you something.
If you appreciate an old car for what it is, they're great. If you want lumbar support, Bluetooth and a built in screen expect to mod the fuck out of it or look elsewhere. Expect to have to work on SOMETHING now and again regardless.
My Lemans is by its self an experience to drive. It's not sophisticated or even super refined for that matter. It is however a simple driving experience of an era largely past.
I do agree on the brakes being scary as fuck (hence the LS1 Camaro stuff up front) and the handling is far from great (hell, I don't have power steering) but there's an awesome aftermarket that corrects a great deal of that.
Another thing to remember is gross vs net HP. A car that looked really good numbers wise in the 60s is not the same animal as a car of today. A lot of the higher end stuff was countered by reduced HP ratings for sanctioning bodies and insurance companies but a basic 350 V8 like my Lemans was rated at 250HP in 71 (gross) and 160HP in 72 (net) with little change.
ED:I wanted to say that the sounds and feels of an old car are something I don't feel that a new car (even a performance one) has really replicated fully. I went up to the Car Craft Nationals this year, and the wifey went in a rented Camaro SS Convertible. The acceleration is smooth and quiet. I would go as far as to say sterile even, my Volvo has more V8 rumble and feels better accelerating even if is significantly slower. Although this isn't the same for every newer car, I suspect a lot are like that. It's the reason why a lot of people are trying to emulate the sensation through things like putting a speaker in a car to make vroom vroom noises.
If you appreciate an old car for what it is, they're great. If you want lumbar support, Bluetooth and a built in screen expect to mod the fuck out of it or look elsewhere. Expect to have to work on SOMETHING now and again regardless.
My Lemans is by its self an experience to drive. It's not sophisticated or even super refined for that matter. It is however a simple driving experience of an era largely past.
I do agree on the brakes being scary as fuck (hence the LS1 Camaro stuff up front) and the handling is far from great (hell, I don't have power steering) but there's an awesome aftermarket that corrects a great deal of that.
Another thing to remember is gross vs net HP. A car that looked really good numbers wise in the 60s is not the same animal as a car of today. A lot of the higher end stuff was countered by reduced HP ratings for sanctioning bodies and insurance companies but a basic 350 V8 like my Lemans was rated at 250HP in 71 (gross) and 160HP in 72 (net) with little change.
ED:I wanted to say that the sounds and feels of an old car are something I don't feel that a new car (even a performance one) has really replicated fully. I went up to the Car Craft Nationals this year, and the wifey went in a rented Camaro SS Convertible. The acceleration is smooth and quiet. I would go as far as to say sterile even, my Volvo has more V8 rumble and feels better accelerating even if is significantly slower. Although this isn't the same for every newer car, I suspect a lot are like that. It's the reason why a lot of people are trying to emulate the sensation through things like putting a speaker in a car to make vroom vroom noises.
Handling, speed, braking, overall performance, gas mileage. Pretty much pick any metric but looks (which are objective) and muscle cars are generally terrible. The only time they don't suck is when people compare them to other more pedestrian vehicles of the same vintage but you don't grade cars like that. You compare them to what's available now.
My buddy's dad's Chevelle sums it up perfectly. It's a fat pig that handles like shit, can't stop, isn't comfortable, isn't fast and gets horrible gas mileage. I mean I appreciate the cars for what they were. I'd just never want to own one unless it had been modernized which is what a lot of people do now. They're making them competent handling cars.
I just don't get the old guy "back in my day cars were better" mentality. No. Back in your day cars were shit but that's ok. It's been 40 years. It stands to reason technology would advance just a bit. It's as an absurd an argument to make as if someone in the 60's complained that modern cars were terrible and the model T was from a time when cars were really cars!
We're living in a time where you can truly have it all though. There are a slew of cars that stop well, handle well, are fast and get respectable gas mileage. BMW nutswinger content in 3... 2... 1... My e60 535 and to an even greater extent, the 335, are cars that did everything well. Hell, even the current gen 335 pops off a 13.3 1/4 mile bone stock with a 32mpg highway rating. That's a light tailwind away from 12s in a car that makes no compromises.
Now knowing you can have that, why would you want a car that makes nothing but compromises? For looks?
Old guys say this about literally everything. Even about people. Old people are annoying, can't wait til I am one.
When-i-was-your-age-i-didnt-go-backpacking-around-europe-i-bombed-the-shit-out-of-it Photo by Rush8track | Photobucket
My story will be....
"Back in my day I walked to the shower through rocks in flip flops uphill BOTH ways and it was fucking 130 degrees in Afghanistan, And that was at NIGHT!"
or
"Back in my day we didn't take stool softener we just at the curry from the defac the locals cooked up! :squirts:"
My story will be....
"Back in my day I walked to the shower through rocks in flip flops uphill BOTH ways and it was fucking 130 degrees in Afghanistan, And that was at NIGHT!"
or
"Back in my day we didn't take stool softener we just at the curry from the defac the locals cooked up! :squirts:"
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