innovate wideband..need some help

[Maniak]

i have been looking into gettin an a/f wideband gauge. but i am confused as to how to install it and which one to go with. i was originally looking at the one by AEM but recently found this one from dynotune.

http://www.dynotunenitrous.com/store/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=150

i really like how i can put the square display in the clock pod.

will i be able to data log with this? do i need to use 2 o2 sensors, one after each header? on a car like mine (s-trim at 10psi on stock long block, meth in future) is it really nessesary to have one of these gauges?

i am a total newb with this stuff. your help is greatly appreciated :biggthump

Click to read more...

 

[trueblue01gt]

one is adequate on the drivers side of the exhaust

 

[jaykruger]

I am 80% sure that the LM1 kit does have a serial port out so that you can datalog, however you still would need a PC with the software hooked up durring your runs.

 

[Maniak]

I am 80% sure that the LM1 kit does have a serial port out so that you can datalog, however you still would need a PC with the software hooked up durring your runs.

 

[Wiked03]

Thats it the wideband kit I bought and it works great.... It is a bit of PITA to install (lots of wiring) but once it is in, it works nicely. Yes you can datalog with it, but you have to wire in a cable to connect the analog output from the LC1 controller to the analog input on your datalogging device.

 

[Maniak]

Thats it the wideband kit I bought and it works great.... It is a bit of PITA to install (lots of wiring) but once it is in, it works nicely. Yes you can datalog with it, but you have to wire in a cable to connect the analog output from the LC1 controller to the analog input on your datalogging device.

cool. so maybe u could help me install it

how does data logging work? sorry for the "newb" type question but this stuff confuses me.

 

[Wiked03]

cool. so maybe u could help me install it

how does data logging work? sorry for the "newb" type question but this stuff confuses me.

Yeah I can help ya out... :biggthump

The analog output just produces and voltage signal that you setup the datalogging device to convert to the a/f ratio.

Do you hav an Xcal2? That is the only device I have setup and datalogged with.

 

[Maniak]

Yeah I can help ya out... :biggthump

The analog output just produces and voltage signal that you setup the datalogging device to convert to the a/f ratio.

Do you hav an Xcal2? That is the only device I have setup and datalogged with.

no. its got an SCT chip from kurgan.

remember, i got that old 5.0 under the hood.

 

[rocket5979]

You will need to wire in a 9 pin Mini-DIN cable to allow your LC-1 to plug into your Xcal2. You will also need to program your LC-1 to test for ground offsets and then plug that difference into the formula that you input into Livelink.

When you wire the DIN cable to your analog 1, analog 2, and ground you will need to wire it a certain way to prevent the really really thin DIN cable wires from breaking. The first time I did one of these I was really careful and still broke the wires 3 times. I found I needed to wire it a slightly different way to ensure the connection would last. Since then I have wired a few more Innovate units so it has become easy by now.

You can log your AFR's directly to the computer without Livelink but you would best have an rpm convertor to reference at what rpm the AFR is at. A 0-5 volt analog input source would be great too so that you can log your MAF voltage in case you will need to have your AFR's tweaked. This will be what you will have to do to log it if you don't have an Xcal2.

If you have access to an Xcal2 then you will also need the OBD-2 Cable adapter that will allow logging of the PCM with the chip in place. If you do not have that cable then you will not be able to log your car with your chip still in which would be pointless.


Shoot me a PM if you need any help with this.

 

[Wiked03]

Duh I just realized that you have a 94, which is pre-OBDII which means you can't datalog with a predator or xcal2.

I think in your case you would need the LM-1 and a tach cable so you can log the A/f & rpm, but I dunno for sure.

 

[rocket5979]

Duh I just realized that you have a 94, which is pre-OBDII which means you can't datalog with a predator or xcal2.

I think in your case you would need the LM-1 and a tach cable so you can log the A/f & rpm, but I dunno for sure.

I always forget that too with that. Well just don't pay attention to paragraphs 1,2 & 4 of my previous post. I reccomend that you pickup a logging system like Zeitronix then if you want to log your car's other perameters. Or just keep the LC-1, plug it into a AFR gauge of your choice and if you need to log then just go to a tuner.

 

[rdsnake]

http://www.chicagosvt.com/forums/showthread.php3?t=22866&highlight=wideband+install

You only use one sensor (driver's side exhaust).

I'm not sure about date logging with a pre OBD 2 car?

I couldn't image ripping up the streets without one. If I had this gauge before my engine went south, I bet the engine would still be pumping

 

[rocket5979]

I'm not sure about date logging with a pre OBD 2 car?

You pretty much hook your datalogger wires directly up to your TPS, tach wire, MAF (or MAP if Speed density), MAP(for boost logging), Wideband and so on. I like my LM-1 but the Zeitronix seems like the better deal for logging other perameters besides just AFR for the price. With the LM-1 you have to buy additional stuff to log your other sensors with.

 

[rdsnake]

You pretty much hook your datalogger wires directly up to your TPS, tach wire, MAF (or MAP if Speed density), MAP(for boost logging), Wideband and so on. I like my LM-1 but the Zeitronix seems like the better deal for logging other perameters besides just AFR for the price. With the LM-1 you have to buy additional stuff to log your other sensors with.

FUCK THAT! Isn't the LM1 a complete stand alone widebad?

 

[rocket5979]

FUCK THAT! Isn't the LM1 a complete stand alone widebad?

Yes it is, but when you log for the purpose of tuning you will need to log those other perameters too. Logging just A/F itself doesn't serve much of a purpose if you do not have any idea where at in the MAF trans function (MAF voltage) to reference it to. If you were to buy the additional control boxes for the LM-1 it would hook up to a non-OBD2 vehicle in similar fashion.

 

[rdsnake]

Yes it is, but when you log for the purpose of tuning you will need to log those other perameters too. Logging just A/F itself doesn't serve much of a purpose if you do not have any idea where at in the MAF trans function (MAF voltage) to reference it to. If you were to buy the additional control boxes for the LM-1 it would hook up to a non-OBD2 vehicle in similar fashion.

Correct, I was just talking about wideband datalogging not everything else :biggthump

 

[95trippleblackconv]

My LM1 has a record button then you make a run then download to your computer and read it. The LC1 should be the same. You will need a serial port or a serial to USB adapter

Software and manual
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/support.php

 

[Maniak]

what is the actual point of data logging?

 

[rocket5979]

what is the actual point of data logging?

Well for instance, to dial your WOT AFR's in you need to know a few things. I will keep it simple and not go into too much detail but two major things you will need to know is of course your AFR and also at what MAF AD Count you are at (Or MAF voltage in this case). What this will allow your tuner, or you if you tune your own vehicles in the future, is see at what point on the MAF transfer function you are at and what AFR your vehicle was at. For example purposes you are commanding 11.5:1 AFR in your base fuel table. Then say at 600 MAF Ad counts you are at 12:1 AFR. You are running .5 too lean at that MAF AD count and will need to adjust your MAF transfer function by the amount that it is off. So in this case you need to find your correction by taking actual AFR divided by commanded. That gives you a correction factor of 1.043. You will then take the value in the MAF transfer function at the 600AD count box and multiply it by 1.043.

I apologize if I got overly technical here but it is just one of MANY examples of why data-logging is so important. Most people will have us tuners log their cars and then retune it if necessary so it sometimes does not become important to the normal enthusiast. However, if a person ever needs a remote tune (not happening with a chip unless you get your own chip burner) then your tuner will tell you what to log and then you email them the log and they can modify your tune, email it it in .xtr, .ll3, etc format back to the customer and they can upload it to their car through the flash device. You are in a slightly different boat with a chip though.

 

[Bob_Kurgan]

what is the actual point of data logging?

there isnt any.. you dont tune your own car and its already been tuned... so, a standard wideband for "watching" is all you need.... kinda like if your fuel pump failed or something..

 

[SLASH]

wow, now im really confused...


conflicting advice...damn...what do i do now??!!

 

[Maniak]

there isnt any.. you dont tune your own car and its already been tuned... so, a standard wideband for "watching" is all you need.... kinda like if your fuel pump failed or something..

thought so. so an a/f wideband could also help detect if my fuel pump went bad etc....

 

[Bob_Kurgan]

call me later today and ill explain... ill be at the track, so if i dont answer, leave me a message!

 

[rocket5979]

wow, now im really confused...


conflicting advice...damn...what do i do now??!!

Not conflicting advice. I thought Maniak meant his question in more of a general manner in reference to datalogging than specifically to him. I also did point out a few reasons why he would not be in the same boat as a person normally logging their own car. A person in Maniak's situation (OBD-I, and Chipped versus flashed) will likely not even really be able to be in the situation to be remote tuned as the datalogging will be more complex to set up and he would need his own chip burner to burn the tune that his tuner (Kurgan) and all that. I was just explaining the point of datalogging from a general standpoint.

 

[rocket5979]

thought so. so an a/f wideband could also help detect if my fuel pump went bad etc....

Oh yeah, your AFR's would go real lean at that point. Or if it was in the process of failing but not quite dead then you would likely see your AFR's start drifting lean.

There are other ways to see if your fuel pump is going bad too, like a fuel pressure gauge. However, the fuel pressur gauge will just monitor fuel pressure itself which would only allow a person to detect if their fuel pump or fuel pressure regulator went bad. Having the wideband will cover that and much more like stuff having to do with your car having proper fuel. In a street car a wideband is plenty enough insurance for the average person.