Brake rotors ruined. Anyone ever "season" new rotors before?
- Thread starter ILLINI-SVT
- Start date
The pads and rotors will "season" at the same time. Bed the new brakes and that should be all you need. Follow one of the procedures to repeatedly slow without stopping until the pads and rotors heat up and exchange material. Do not come to a complete stop while bedding.
You shouldn't have to hit the rotors with any cleaners. Try to not get finger prints or foreign substances on them during install.
Do NOT turn the new rotors.
You shouldn't have to hit the rotors with any cleaners. Try to not get finger prints or foreign substances on them during install.
Do NOT turn the new rotors.
Flyn high again said:
In the 21st century this is becoming a common practice Cliff, but I still don't believe in it. The only benefit I can think of is if the on-the-car type lathe is used.
I just sand new rotors with some 130 grit sandpaper, spray down with brake cleaner, then rinse with water and dry. Anything you don't get perfectly dry will instantly rust.
For HPS pads, bedding consists of:
Make 6 to 10 consecutive stops from 30 mph, applying moderate pressure (Do Not Drag Brakes) Allow to cool for 2-3 minutes by driving without applying brakes. Make 2-3 hard stops from 40mph. Then park and do not apply brakes until system cools fully.
So can I assume that no one seasons the rotors separate from bedding the pads?
I was always told to get the rotors turned, whether between pad changes, or even new ones, to remove the manuafacturing oils and such. But, I will probably just hit the new rotors with a scour pad lightly, then use the brake cleaner. Maybe some water after that. I'm not a fan of hand sanding them though, as I don't want to chance creating any low spots for material to collect.
I may cover the pad surfaces and hit the rest of the rotors with some clear VHT high-temp paint to keep rust off the hub and fins. We'll see how motivated I am.
On the brake topic, who changes the races in new rotors? I have 35K on the truck, so I might as well change the bearings while they are out. I typically just used the pre-pressed races in new rotors, but of course, the 'right' way is to swap them with the ones that come with the bearings since they are supposedly matched? Does anyone actually do this?
I was always told to get the rotors turned, whether between pad changes, or even new ones, to remove the manuafacturing oils and such. But, I will probably just hit the new rotors with a scour pad lightly, then use the brake cleaner. Maybe some water after that. I'm not a fan of hand sanding them though, as I don't want to chance creating any low spots for material to collect.
I may cover the pad surfaces and hit the rest of the rotors with some clear VHT high-temp paint to keep rust off the hub and fins. We'll see how motivated I am.
On the brake topic, who changes the races in new rotors? I have 35K on the truck, so I might as well change the bearings while they are out. I typically just used the pre-pressed races in new rotors, but of course, the 'right' way is to swap them with the ones that come with the bearings since they are supposedly matched? Does anyone actually do this?
cutting rotors on a bench brake lathe is just asking for trouble. there is no way that cooter at the auto parts store/gas station service bay is going to get it right. the bench brake lathe cannot cut a rotor so its perpendicular to its mating surface.
they have to be cut on the vehicle.
mustang rotors should not be cut at all. they're too thin to begin with. that plus they're $67 each brandy new for oem brembo from the tire schwack.
seasoning rotors is for people like me vince and larry who live at the road course. wiht a set of USED pads, take the vehicle out and bring the rotors up to 500 degrees farenheit. then let them cool for 24 hours. not overnight, but for 24 hours. your rotors are now seasoned and will last significantly longer.
SVTOA allows lightnings at their road course events!
they have to be cut on the vehicle.
mustang rotors should not be cut at all. they're too thin to begin with. that plus they're $67 each brandy new for oem brembo from the tire schwack.
seasoning rotors is for people like me vince and larry who live at the road course. wiht a set of USED pads, take the vehicle out and bring the rotors up to 500 degrees farenheit. then let them cool for 24 hours. not overnight, but for 24 hours. your rotors are now seasoned and will last significantly longer.
SVTOA allows lightnings at their road course events!
ShelbyGuy said:
That's the plan. I have resolved to get into all the racing that I didn't seem to have time to complete last year. Back into AutoX, open up the SVTOA season, and maybe even trips to the AutoBahn, IRP, maybe try to get on Road America this year or next.
The point is, when I do my upgrading, I do it so that it's done the way I want the truck to run optimally on. I'm buying a quality set of rotors, and outside of wearing through them, I don't plan on replacing them soon. So if I'm going to be hitting the AutoX circuit and SVTOA this summer, I don't want to be replacing the rotors until at least the end of the season.
The rotor designer (Stan Ruslow - GREAT Lightning products) also just told me that I have to season the rotors with old pad, separate from the bed-in process of the new pads. My dilemma is that I don't have all of my old pad set anymore. One of them (inner passenger) disintegrated. Do I have to find a used set someone has lying around?
Man, this sucks. My truck is on blocks, and will be down for at least a week it looks like until I get the new rotors in.
ILLINI-SVT said:
Did they say why? There are varying opinions on what's necessary to make new brakes perform better and last longer but I wonder exactly what seasoning does to the rotors that bedding them in won't.
My thinking is that if new pads and rotors are used, they will get used to each other and wear together. If old pads are used with the new rotors, they will impart old pad imperfections to the new rotors. Or is there something better or necessary that the old pads give the new rotors?
Flyn high again said:
OK, I have the benefit of a metalurgist roommate, so I actually know a little of what I'm talking about here.
Shelby Guy, you are right about heating up, but a little off on the temperature. You said ~500 F. Looking the the Baer website, which has a wonderful writeup on how and why to season brake rotors, the temp we are shooting for is 900-1100 F. Great writeup:
http://baer.com/baer/news/img/Rotor_Seasoning_Street_Light_Track.pdf
My roommate says that makes a lot of sense to him, because iron undergoes a crystalline reformation at 929 F. Heat treating to this temperature, and allowing for cooling, will resolve many of the inconsistencies formed during the casting process, and provide a stronger product. He is surprised that the manufacturers don't heat treat them for us, since the described process is so variable, but whatever.
Next, Cliff, why not new pads and new rotors? I am with you on keeping them matched. But according to Stan Ruslow, who I have a lot of faith in (and makes the premium rotors I ordered), breaking in new pads and rotors at the same time can be disasterous. As I understand it, the reason to season new rotors is to heat treat them to reform impurities caused by the casting process, similar to heat-treating good drag tires. But for pads, the purpose of heating is to remove the outer manufacturing layer of bonding material. You start with a rough surface comprised of mostly the epoxy. Burning them in removes the outer layer of epoxy and exposes the main abrasive agents to the disc. According to Stan, new pads against new rotors causes too much abrasive friction. What I interpret is that the relatively-rough friction of new pads vs new rotors can be too variable, causing the hot spots that the burn-in process seeks to avoid. You can end up spot-heating the surfaces, giving neither a consistent process, and opening the door to future problems.
This is complicated, and I have been drinking, I hope I cleared up what I learned tonight a little.
whenthe Saturn or any car that has made it without getting traded in before needing a brake job 
needs a brake job...
if the pads need to be changed but the rotors don't need to be replaced, we have them dropped off at a auto parts store to be turned, get them back same day...
put on the new pads and bleed the brakes :biggthump
needs a brake job...if the pads need to be changed but the rotors don't need to be replaced, we have them dropped off at a auto parts store to be turned, get them back same day...
put on the new pads and bleed the brakes :biggthump
I think I've read up enough about it to go through the trouble of finding a used set of brake pads to season the rotors first. Then I'll bed the pads.
No kidding about the expensive pads. A couple of the guys on NLOC rave about the Carbotech Formula 10 pads. But those are the guys who consider not just tires, but pads AND rotors a commodity. That's some serious braking!
No kidding about the expensive pads. A couple of the guys on NLOC rave about the Carbotech Formula 10 pads. But those are the guys who consider not just tires, but pads AND rotors a commodity. That's some serious braking!
I went to a Napa of all places and the guys didnt know how to measure and turn the rotors. I offered to show them but I think they might have been high on something. I ended up taking them to a friend of mine who had a shop. One was slightly out of limit but we turned it anyway As for seasoning I get them hotter than hell by doing panic stops. Next I let them cold soak. Do it again and let them cold soak again. After that and the way I drive they usually last 50-60thous. My Ranger had its first brake job at 78,000. The car is a little different.
As for seasoning I get them hotter than hell by doing panic stops. Next I let them cold soak. Do it again and let them cold soak again. After that and the way I drive they usually last 50-60thous. My Ranger had its first brake job at 78,000. The car is a little different.
Thanks man, I was actually out tonight doing the first night of seasoning. The pads finally wore through the clear paint I coated them with, so we went on the highway to heat them up. Tonight they cool, and tomorrow I will go out again and heat them even more. Another night of cooling and I'll throw the new pads in and bed them.
The stock pads on my L only lasted 35K. But for the size/weight of the L, I can't be unhappy with that. I should have changed them at 25K.
The stock pads on my L only lasted 35K. But for the size/weight of the L, I can't be unhappy with that. I should have changed them at 25K.
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