User Tag List

Like Tree8Likes
  • 2 Post By Mook
  • 1 Post By Mook
  • 1 Post By Yaj Yak
  • 1 Post By Ryan02Stang
  • 2 Post By Kensington
  • 1 Post By Kensington

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 01-05-2018, 11:19 AM   #1
Mook's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Elgin
Posts: 160,966
 
Mook's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Elgin
Posts: 160,966
Casino cash: $204292000
36.00 per day
Default 1JZ V12 Hot Rod



How a Hot-Rodder Home-Built a Twin-Turbo V12 From Two Toyota 1JZs

Quote:
That's exciting in itself, but it becomes far more enticing when you learn a little more about it. See, this V12 engine was made by melding two Toyota 1JZ 2.5-liter turbocharged inline-sixes together at the crank. And it was almost entirely home-built by a long-time hot-rodder with unconventional tastes and amazing fabrication skills.

"Pure, blind, dumb luck," Don Groff tells me over the phone. The 71-year-old retired designer of manufacturing equipment is explaining how, and why, he turned two straight-six motors into one 5.0-liter V12. "I didn't want a huge cubic-inch motor," he told me, "and I realized those motors breathe really well—guys can turbo them and get a lot of power out of them."

So without doing much in the way of investigation or measurement, Groff picked up twin 1JZ engines yanked from early-'90s Toyota Supras, cut the blocks just above the oil pan gasket surface, and scratch-built a new crankcase out of TIG-welded 3/4-inch steel. "Where I got lucky is the head bolt pattern is symmetrical," Groff tells me. "You can flip the head end-for-end. There are 13 oil drain-back holes in the block. Those are what I used to bolt the cylinders to the crankcase.

"I didn't know any of that when I bought the motors. I just got lucky."

Groff wanted even firing pulses and inside-the-vee exhaust routing—the latter to let folks know immediately that this wasn't a factory production V12. These design considerations meant angling the cylinder banks 120 degrees apart. He mounted the right-side cylinder head backwards, modifying it so the cam gears stayed at the front of the engine. Groff laid out a new crankshaft, each rod journal now carrying two connecting rods instead of one, with oiling details and machining handled by Scat.

"If I had it to do all over again, I might have made it a 90-degree vee, odd-fire motor," Groff says. "I didn't know until I committed to what I did, that Ferrari V12s are a 75-degree vee and odd-fire. That might be why they sound so good."

Most folks start an engine project with a clear idea of the vehicle it's going into. Groff went about it the other way. "The motor came first," he told me, explaining that his original plan called for an offset drivetrain sitting side-by-side with the cockpit. While working on chassis design, he determined the engine was far too wide for an offset layout. What resulted was the mid-engine open-wheel single-seater you see here, the engine attached to a Corvette six-speed manual transaxle. Aside from some precision machining of the engine blocks and heads, and a custom wiring harness and initial ECU programming by Nth Moto, every piece of the project was done by Groff himself.

"This is kind of seat-of-the-pants engineering," Groff says.

The target is 800 horsepower. Each 1JZ made around 300 hp stock; roughly 18 lbs of boost from the twin Garrett GTX turbos and an E85 tune should meet the power goal, no problem. "It'd be nice to brag about 1000 horsepower, but there's no reason to do that other than talk," Groff says. "You can't hook it up and you can't drive it anywhere near safe. Eight hundred was just an arbitrary target that I thought would run good and let the parts live."

As for how he plans to use the open-wheel V12 dream machine? "I'm basically gonna chug around the neigborhood and around town," Groff tells me. "I didn't build it to any track or race organization's spec, so I question if they'd ever let me go around a track at any kind of speed."

It's a project that's been eight years in the making so far. That doesn't surprise Groff: "I figured it'd be 10 years total, and I'm not gonna be far off that," he told me.

"I just love to build stuff. The whole project makes no sense, except it's what I wanted to do. It makes me happy. Bottom line, that's all that counts. I didn't think the world needed another '32 Roadster."




boostedguy05 and BS ISF like this.
__________________
- TCG Owner & Operator -
Mook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2018, 11:22 AM   #2
boostedguy05's Avatar
. .
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 21,030
. .
 
boostedguy05's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 21,030
Casino cash: $130220000
6.64 per day
Default

only shooting for 800 whp. why not simply use 1 engine then.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike K View Post
You're either a barely functioning idiot or you're a brilliant genius. I must study you.
boostedguy05 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2018, 11:22 AM   #3
Mook's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Elgin
Posts: 160,966
 
Mook's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Elgin
Posts: 160,966
Casino cash: $204292000
36.00 per day
Default

B/c then it wouldnt be awesome?
IDAFC21 likes this.
Mook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2018, 11:23 AM   #4
Yaj Yak's Avatar
Harbor Master
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 88,958
Harbor Master
 
Yaj Yak's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 88,958
Casino cash: $155580000
19.90 per day
Default

i love how he describes it like he just built a different lego structure

OH JUST CUT THE BLOCKS IN HALF AND STUFF. THAT'S ALL
Chester Copperpot likes this.
__________________
01 525i
01 turbo pricks
13 gas 3500hd cclb

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw View Post
TCG: We pull vanity fair models in our F150’s because Tesla’s are unsafe.
Yaj Yak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2018, 11:25 AM   #5
Spivitz's Avatar
The Throttle is ur friend
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: 60191
Posts: 21,709
The Throttle is ur friend
 
Spivitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: 60191
Posts: 21,709
Casino cash: $57247300
8.65 per day
Default

Woah, definitely Awesome!
__________________
2008 AWD Forged 365 SS
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland Summit Hemi
2005 88ci Scoot
Spivitz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2018, 11:45 AM   #6
Chester Copperpot's Avatar
TCGs Far Right Leader
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Shithole, IL
Posts: 29,250
TCGs Far Right Leader
 
Chester Copperpot's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Shithole, IL
Posts: 29,250
Casino cash: $8548400
8.63 per day
Default

Fucking awesome.
Chester Copperpot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2018, 01:24 PM   #7
SleeperLS's Avatar
The Midnight Sweeper
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sandia Mountain
Posts: 10,817
The Midnight Sweeper
 
SleeperLS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sandia Mountain
Posts: 10,817
Casino cash: $72746675
2.73 per day
Default

That is really awesome.
__________________
2010 Toyota Tundra 4wd SR5 TRD Offroad
2017 Can Am Maverick Max X3 XDS

SleeperLS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2018, 01:27 PM   #8
Ryan02Stang's Avatar  
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Mount Prospect
Posts: 10,109
 
Ryan02Stang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Mount Prospect
Posts: 10,109
Casino cash: $114193000
1.85 per day
Default

I'd rather just do an LS swap...
DEEZUZ likes this.
__________________
2015 Ford Explorer Sport
2012 Lincoln MKS Ecoboost
2002 Mustang GT
Ryan02Stang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2018, 01:45 PM   #9
RICH17's Avatar
Dr. Pussy Slayer, MD
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: The 007
Posts: 25,530
Dr. Pussy Slayer, MD
 
RICH17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: The 007
Posts: 25,530
Casino cash: $110413144
6.50 per day
Default

Looks sweet!
RICH17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2018, 01:50 PM   #10
Kensington's Avatar  
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 7,744
 
Kensington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 7,744
Casino cash: $40246500
10.53 per day
Default

Sometimes people do things just because. World would be extremely boring if everyone just did an LS swap because it's cheaper/easier/more powerful/name a lame excuse
Yaj Yak and ilikemtb999 like this.
Kensington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2018, 02:19 PM   #11
10sec's Avatar
I haz dat teddy bear smile.
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,137
I haz dat teddy bear smile.
 
10sec's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,137
Casino cash: $90539925
5.72 per day
Default

^^WORD.
__________________
2005 S2000
10sec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2018, 02:20 PM   #12
Yaj Yak's Avatar
Harbor Master
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 88,958
Harbor Master
 
Yaj Yak's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 88,958
Casino cash: $155580000
19.90 per day
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kensington View Post
Sometimes people do things just because. World would be extremely boring if everyone just did an LS swap because it's cheaper/easier/more powerful/name a lame excuse
thank god people do other shit
Yaj Yak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2018, 02:30 PM   #13
Kensington's Avatar  
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 7,744
 
Kensington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 7,744
Casino cash: $40246500
10.53 per day
Default

Thank God for people like this dude. There's probably only a handful of individuals in the world with the commitment, know-how, and drive to tackle something like this. The problem is, it seems like it's mostly older dudes that are doing these types of things. Like the one dude that was making a V12 out of an LS or the guy that made a V12 out of old Ford small blocks.

I would much prefer something oddball, with much less power, than a swap that everyone and their brother has done.
Yaj Yak likes this.
Kensington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2018, 02:43 PM   #14
boostedguy05's Avatar
. .
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 21,030
. .
 
boostedguy05's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 21,030
Casino cash: $130220000
6.64 per day
Default

but he is building the damn car from scratch as well! its not just a swap.

although i suppose it is much easier to get 2 engines to 400hp than it is to get 1 to 800. but he still isnt making it easy.
boostedguy05 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2018, 03:34 PM   #15
Kensington's Avatar  
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 7,744
 
Kensington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 7,744
Casino cash: $40246500
10.53 per day
Default

Also, love that he went with a hot-V configuration. That's cool as hell. Would've been slightly cooler if he could've packaged the turbos in the V, but that's some OEM level engineering. Likely would've been quite a bit of work involved to keep engine/head temps down though.
Kensington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2018, 06:05 PM   #16
IDAFC21's Avatar
WOW.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Avondale, AZ
Posts: 39,134
WOW.
 
IDAFC21's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Avondale, AZ
Posts: 39,134
Casino cash: $113042529
8.75 per day
Default

That. Is amazing.
__________________
2014 ///M235i_____________________________________________ _____2004 Monaro
IDAFC21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2018, 07:20 PM   #17
Bru's Avatar
Bru Bru is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 36,896
Bru
Super Moderator
 
Bru's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 36,896
Casino cash: $2147483647
8.25 per day
Default

So cool. Reminds me of this Ferrari 312 replica with an ITB LSX and crazy headers that actually sound like an old F1 car. Wild.

__________________
Bru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2018, 07:30 PM   #18
Thirdgen89GTA's Avatar
Aka "That Focus RS Guy"
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Buffalo Grove
Posts: 10,267
Aka "That Focus RS Guy"
 
Thirdgen89GTA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Buffalo Grove
Posts: 10,267
Casino cash: $99863300
3.15 per day
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bru View Post
So cool. Reminds me of this Ferrari 312 replica with an ITB LSX and crazy headers that actually sound like an old F1 car. Wild.

The most disappointing thing about that car, is that the video didn't let us watch it get flogged. Now I must go find youtube video's of it.
__________________
Toy: 1989 Pontiac TransAm GTA | LT1 M6 Swap | Cammed, AFR 195s, LTs, SLP 2otL Catback
Daily Driver: 2017 Focus RS | Frozen White | RS2 Package | 350hp AWD Goodness.


Thirdgen89GTA is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2018, 07:45 PM   #19
ilikemtb999's Avatar
I eat dirt
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 68,742
I eat dirt
 
ilikemtb999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 68,742
Casino cash: $215000
15.92 per day
Default

Saw this a bit ago. I think it’s fucking awesome. Reminds me of the hayabusa v8 engine. I love when people just do shit “because”
__________________
85 blazer.........turbo, 1 ton axles, some stuff
70 Buick GS.......resurrection in progress
10 Tahoe SSV lowered Baja edition
14 Caprice PPV woop woop
ilikemtb999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2018, 10:07 PM   #20
LoveSpank's Avatar
JTICE
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: bolingbrook
Posts: 5,043
JTICE
 
LoveSpank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: bolingbrook
Posts: 5,043
Casino cash: $49598600
1.86 per day
Default

Mad scientist shit and its glorious
__________________
SHOCKERRACING
LoveSpank is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.0.6 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
no new posts