Okay, after deliberating and researching I've started to come up with a plan for my car and I want to know what you guys think. I decided to stay conservative and only go with a 3.5 pulley. I'll either get a ZZP or DHP though I haven't settled on which one yet. Obviously it'll have a 180 T-stat etc for support, and I'm thinking a Random Tech. 2.5" DP/ High flow Cat. Right now I have a gutted airbox, but I'll be adding a FWI to the airbox for a completely stock look. Anyone see any problems here or am I on the right track? I may also add rockers to the list a bit down the road. At some point I'll probably ditch the resonator too. My goal is to have a completely reliable daily driver/ sleeper. Thats priority one. I'm looking for maybe 50-60 HP above stock. Should this get me at least close to that? Power is secondary to reliability, so I'm not looking for much. If I want a race car, I'll get something else for that. Just need more power than stock. Anything I should add to the list? Any geustimates what this should be good for in the 1/4 (just for reference)? And yes, I know, it needs to be scanned. On a side note, should the tranny go I'll get a 2300 RPM stall and a built tranny. Suggestions?
3800 Planning
- Thread starter thebullfrog
- Start date
They are the same price. But how much more power does it really make over the 3.5? Like 5- 10 HP? It really isn't worth the added stress to the engine if I do start getting bad knock. Not to mention a knock laden 3.4 will make less power than a knockless 3.5. I would think the added supporting mods to safely run the 3.4 are making more power than the .1 decrease in pulley size does. I look at it this way. You don't need much to support the 3.5. Supporting the 3.4 takes a bit more (though not much, I know). If I were to get the support for a 3.4 I'm about an intercooler away from being able to run a 3.25. Where does it end? If I start with the 3.5 I can slowly start adding more support. Once all the support is done, I can go to something smaller than a 3.4 and make some real power if I want. With a 3.4, I've gotta get pretty much a full exhaust etc. right off the bat, which isn't in the budget right now. Besides, I'd like to keep the power below the "instant tranny death" threashold for now. As it is I'm starting to have some concerns about the health of my trans.
I realize it doesn't really take a whole lot to support the 3.4, but here's the thing. I'm paranoid about reliability. I want to have more support than I really need before I go any smaller than the minimal upgrade 3.5. Why? Because I tend to beat the living shit out of everything that I drive. Knowing how I drive, I want to make sure that I'm not abusing anything any more than I already am by pushing the limits of how much boost my set-up can handle.
I realize it doesn't really take a whole lot to support the 3.4, but here's the thing. I'm paranoid about reliability. I want to have more support than I really need before I go any smaller than the minimal upgrade 3.5. Why? Because I tend to beat the living shit out of everything that I drive. Knowing how I drive, I want to make sure that I'm not abusing anything any more than I already am by pushing the limits of how much boost my set-up can handle.
most people fear that there car will be knock crazy after a 3.4. its not always the case
in most case the stock pcm file was way off from the factory or a lack of proper maintance(shitty maf, bad 02 sensor, clogged cat,fouled wrongly gapped plugs) to cause lots of knock
lots of us were able to run pretty small pullies with basic supporting mods. hell IIRC ron was on 3.0 pulley with most of what your listing and a few little things
this is why a powrtuner should really be a first mod and no ones says anything because it involves spending more the 5 minutes learning it
more power can be made with that alone then most of your mods your listing...and safer becasue your scanning.
get a MPS, this way when you want 13s all day you throw some race gas in and drop pulleys
i had 3.25 pulley with 19* timing KR free with what you have and a catback when i was moding my m90 setup
scan before you judge how shitty your car will act with mods, you might be pleasntly suprised.
dont put a brick wall on what you want(naming a time you want to run), see what it does then decide if the money needed is worth it to meet your new found goals........
good luck
in most case the stock pcm file was way off from the factory or a lack of proper maintance(shitty maf, bad 02 sensor, clogged cat,fouled wrongly gapped plugs) to cause lots of knock
lots of us were able to run pretty small pullies with basic supporting mods. hell IIRC ron was on 3.0 pulley with most of what your listing and a few little things
this is why a powrtuner should really be a first mod and no ones says anything because it involves spending more the 5 minutes learning it
more power can be made with that alone then most of your mods your listing...and safer becasue your scanning.
get a MPS, this way when you want 13s all day you throw some race gas in and drop pulleys
i had 3.25 pulley with 19* timing KR free with what you have and a catback when i was moding my m90 setup
scan before you judge how shitty your car will act with mods, you might be pleasntly suprised.
dont put a brick wall on what you want(naming a time you want to run), see what it does then decide if the money needed is worth it to meet your new found goals........
good luck
It isn't so much a brick wall. I'm giving myself a realistic goal to shoot for on a really limited budget. I could spend more, but don't want to. My Talon ran my life. "Gee honey, I'd love to take you to dinner, but then I won't be able to afford my ____". I'm trying to avoid that scenario again by giving myself a strict modest budget. Perhaps in a year or 2 I'll allow myself to go a little further, but for now I want to keep it simple.
Any way, what do you think I'd be better off with in terms of exhaust. DP or cat-back? The DP fits the budget better ; freeing up the cat and eliminating that God forsaken U-bend seems like a better bang for the buck approach to reducing knock and freeing up a few ponies in the process. Besides, I've decided to go with the stealth approach and keep the nice quiet stock mufflers. Though I wouldn't mind maybe adding in an electric cut-out at some point. Perhaps just before the cat if there's room. I haven't really looked to closely to see. Anywho, my intention for the spring is to only dump around $500 into this thing.
Pulley-$65 ish
PCM- $80- $100
DP/cat- $250 or so
T-stat, blower belt etc etc. - maybe around $100 at most.
+ some cash to borrow a pulley puller and maybe have the DP put on if rust keeps me from getting it off with hand tools.
If you guys agree that I can safely run the 3.4 like that, then I'll go that route. What order should I do this in? I was thinking PCM (I REALLY can't stand the stock shift tables) T-stat once it's warmer out, then should I play it safe and get the DP next or could I get away with the pulley right away? I'm leaning towards doing the pulley last.
Any way, what do you think I'd be better off with in terms of exhaust. DP or cat-back? The DP fits the budget better ; freeing up the cat and eliminating that God forsaken U-bend seems like a better bang for the buck approach to reducing knock and freeing up a few ponies in the process. Besides, I've decided to go with the stealth approach and keep the nice quiet stock mufflers. Though I wouldn't mind maybe adding in an electric cut-out at some point. Perhaps just before the cat if there's room. I haven't really looked to closely to see. Anywho, my intention for the spring is to only dump around $500 into this thing.
Pulley-$65 ish
PCM- $80- $100
DP/cat- $250 or so
T-stat, blower belt etc etc. - maybe around $100 at most.
+ some cash to borrow a pulley puller and maybe have the DP put on if rust keeps me from getting it off with hand tools.
If you guys agree that I can safely run the 3.4 like that, then I'll go that route. What order should I do this in? I was thinking PCM (I REALLY can't stand the stock shift tables) T-stat once it's warmer out, then should I play it safe and get the DP next or could I get away with the pulley right away? I'm leaning towards doing the pulley last.
dont bother changing if its not 3". again you can get one for the price of a 2.5 and make more power safely........this more comes done to common sense at this point
you asked us and we are telling you. do a survey and ask who runs a 2.5 DP thats not N/A
with money as your main concern why not wait till the exhasut discount day this spring and get a 3" installed for the same price for you buying a 2.5 and having to do it yourself. .
i guess if your minds set tho
i really think your looking at this as alot bigger of a stepping stone then it is.
you asked us and we are telling you. do a survey and ask who runs a 2.5 DP thats not N/A
with money as your main concern why not wait till the exhasut discount day this spring and get a 3" installed for the same price for you buying a 2.5 and having to do it yourself. .
i guess if your minds set tho
i really think your looking at this as alot bigger of a stepping stone then it is.
Get yourself a 3" mandrel bent DP from Fair Muffler in LaGrange. 2-1/2" DP's are for GT's - not GTP's
When i got my Fair Muffler 3" DP i was amazed at the difference it made in the higher RPM range. (i street raced another GP 5 minutes after i left the parking lot. LoL)
Don't waste your money on a cat-back.. Keep the stock mufflers and do your DP, lose the resonator and catalytic converter. My GP is only slightly louder than stock cause i have a high-flo cat and stock mufflers.
Besides - our cars sound like raspy ass and are too loud with Magnaflow's or Flowmaster's
Actually I was thinking a lot about the Fair Muffler thing. I was considering it at work today, wondering how much it would cost to have a nice mandrel bent set-up from the headers all the way back to the mufflers. Or at least to the Y pipe to eliminate the resonator.
And SINr, my mind isn't set. Thats why I posted my plans- to get feedback and advice. I'm flexible. I know my way around under a hood, but I realize that I know almost nothing about these cars. That's why I'm here. To learn from people who do have experience with the platform and I appreciate all the help and advice. You guy's already have me talked into a 3.4 set-up. Now I'm looking into exhaust options.
And SINr, my mind isn't set. Thats why I posted my plans- to get feedback and advice. I'm flexible. I know my way around under a hood, but I realize that I know almost nothing about these cars. That's why I'm here. To learn from people who do have experience with the platform and I appreciate all the help and advice. You guy's already have me talked into a 3.4 set-up. Now I'm looking into exhaust options.
I've seen too many cars with those mods and a constant 3-5* of KR to say yes.
I'd stick with the 3.5, you said yourself that RELIABILITY is more important than POWER. The 3.5 will make the same power, and slightly less torque, but most importantly, will NOT lead to the same stubborn KR issues that force alot of people to buy rockers, headers, a tuner, etc.
I've seen multiple cars blow up with the mods you listed, I don't care how many people in this thread say it's ok, it's not 99% of the time. Ask how many people in this thread were scanning all the time rather than occasionally, and I think you'd get a very different impression of what's the best course of action.
MT
see, now thats the shit im talkin about. someone else finally sees my point of view. though depending on how big my return isi may add an ls1m scanner to the list. at the least i plan to grab one by summer. mabe ill start 3.5, then after some more support(i wanna go intercooled) ill getsometing smaller. b4 u go saying i dont need an i/c i kow. it just doesnt jive with me having a forced induction car and not having an i/c. especially when im modding it.
I've been through ALL stages of modding with these cars, and I've relived those stages with numerous friends who are at the same point you are in modding, or would be with the parts you listed. I also know I've never seen a car run without KR with the mods you stated above. To me, that is unacceptable, and to anyone who seems to place the greatest emphasis on reliability, it should be similarly important.
A scanner is a must, I would put that above the pulley on the list of priorities. Also, with the 3.5 and mostly all other press-ons, you don't really lose much with buying and selling them. A brand new press-on is only around 60-70 bucks, and used ones go for 40-50, a loss of 20-30 bucks, not too bad in the event you are able to upgrade in the future, and that's assuming new, a used pulley can be used for years and sold for no loss
MT
yeah im not really all that worried about the $60 for a future pulley upgrade. I'll see what i can do about a scanner. I'd order one right now if i weren't having to set money aside for something else right now.
with a 3.5would i be able to ge away w/ the stock belt, or do i still need a shorter one?
Nevermind, i dont how old stretched mine may be so ill replace it anyway
with a 3.5would i be able to ge away w/ the stock belt, or do i still need a shorter one?
Nevermind, i dont how old stretched mine may be so ill replace it anyway
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