3800 neat little device i found in a link on clubgp

[Sinister Drag Designs]

http://www.et-performance.com/krank_vents.html


its the mini one at the bottom under turbokits that we need for our cars
anyone ever done some experimenting with one of these
i might end up getting one for the slut

Click to read more...

 

[GTPquickRB]

what does it do?

 

[imported_Ron Vogel]

Don't even bother. I'll show you something that will solve your problem, and make power!

 

[M@]

Originally posted by Ron Vogel@Jun 13 2006, 12:22 AM
Don't even bother. I'll show you something that will solve your problem, and make power!

[snapback]129536[/snapback]​

Vac pump???

I've been trying to figure out a way to do a vac pump for a LONG time and have come up with nothing...

BTW Ron, I PM'ed you about those LCA bushings and didn't hear from you, if you still need a test mule, I'm still VERY willing. PM me or email to [email protected]

MT

 

[imported_Ron Vogel]

I thought I pm'd you back, sit tight. I'm waiting to hear from Mike on logistics of a few things related to it.

 

[Sinister Drag Designs]

if it was drawn up on toilet paper at 3 am and made of duct tape, an old beer bong from rons rocker days and a copper penny i want two of them

 

[imported_Ron Vogel]

Mat, 6 rib belt only though. I have a seperate guage to the crankcase, and a pressure relief valve already on the car. I'm just waiting for it to be shipped.

 

[chipmonk212121]

ive said it before and ill say it again...... ron vogel is macgyver

 

[GTPquickRB]

what does it do?

 

[framos242]

Originally posted by Ron Vogel@Jun 13 2006, 12:20 AM
Mat, 6 rib belt only though. I have a seperate guage to the crankcase, and a pressure relief valve already on the car. I'm just waiting for it to be shipped.

[snapback]129548[/snapback]​

 

[imported_Ron Vogel]

Originally posted by 98GTPquickRB@Jun 13 2006, 10:16 AM
what does it do?

[snapback]129568[/snapback]​

Evacuates pressure from the crancase. If I can pull about 10" of vac, it should be worth about 25hp.

 

[EmersonHart13]

Why doesn't Ron work for NASA?

 

[Partyhardoo69]

good god

 

[GTPquickRB]

I'll be the test mule for this!! And i don't know why, but i picture Ron as a cross between the professor from back to the future, santa claus, and chuck norris

 

[framos242]

Originally posted by emersonhart13@Jun 13 2006, 11:42 AM
Why doesn't Ron work for NASA?

[snapback]129579[/snapback]​

He works for another agency.:ninja:

:lolsign:

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

Originally posted by Ron Vogel+Jun 13 2006, 11:17 AM-->

<!--QuoteBegin-98GTPquickRB

@Jun 13 2006, 10:16 AM
what does it do?

[snapback]129568[/snapback]​

Evacuates pressure from the crancase. If I can pull about 10" of vac, it should be worth about 25hp.

[snapback]129577[/snapback]​

[/b]

hmmm got that off a 6.5TD didnt ya? nice

are you planning on flipping the front and rear main crank seals? i dont think that <10 inches would be enough to overcome the seals but you never know

interesting to see this get done, i wish you the best.

Regards, James

 

[imported_Ron Vogel]

Originally posted by Turbocharged400sbc+Jun 13 2006, 05:35 PM-->

Originally posted by Ron Vogel@Jun 13 2006, 11:17 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-98GTPquickRB

@Jun 13 2006, 10:16 AM
what does it do?

[snapback]129568[/snapback]​

Evacuates pressure from the crancase. If I can pull about 10" of vac, it should be worth about 25hp.

[snapback]129577[/snapback]​

hmmm got that off a 6.5TD didnt ya? nice

are you planning on flipping the front and rear main crank seals? i dont think that <10 inches would be enough to overcome the seals but you never know

[snapback]129609[/snapback]​

[/b]

I might have got it from a GMC...

Yeah, I don't know how the car will react. I'll run a puke tank to see if it sucks out too much, but I need to get an oil pressure guage now too, I heard you can lower top end oil pressure with too much vacuum. I'm not sure what this thing will pull, but I have a bleeder screw on the crankcase to adjust it down just in case.

 

[M@]

Ron, I assume that the pump is running off the blower belt? Is it sitting in place of the lower blower idler?

As far as the 6-rib only...that looks to be a composite pulley, yes? I can just knock the outer ribs off the thing if necessary, that's what I did with my stock 6 rib grooved idler to run the 8-rib.

I've been trying to source a pump for this app for a LONG time, I'm VERY impressed you figured out something that works Ron. I was looking at electrically driving a pump lately, as I sort of gave up on making a belt drive work.

Still no PM from ya Ron, maybe something is screwed up on my end here. Try to email me since PM seems to not be working ( [email protected] )

MT

 

[imported_Ron Vogel]

I actually wanted an electric pump, but they aren't cheap enough. From what I read, I'll be losing 6-8 HP just to run the pump to net 25ish.

SSBC makes a decent pump, but even on Ebay they go for over $100. I hear the Late Eighties Caddilac pump will pull about 7-8 inches of vacuum, and the mid-eighties Olds Ciera diesel pump is good for an electric.

I've been spying the Ford powerstroke mechanical, the GMC 6.5TD, and some import (Renault/Ford) ones. I like the GMC TD one because of the pulley (and that take one very difficult (expensive) to solve problem out of the loop).

I was also considering a rotay vane pump like the Moroso, but using an aviation one. Airborne has a bad reputation in the aviation community, and many of their pumps are removed and replaced...all of these diplaced pumps show up on Ebay, and go anywhere from $30 to $150.

I was lucky and won this paticular GM pump for $30 shipped!

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

Originally posted by Ron Vogel+Jun 13 2006, 07:46 PM-->

Originally posted by Turbocharged400sbc@Jun 13 2006, 05:35 PM


hmmm got that off a 6.5TD didnt ya? nice

are you planning on flipping the front and rear main crank seals?  i dont think that <10 inches would be enough to overcome the seals but you never know

[snapback]129609[/snapback]​

I might have got it from a GMC...

Yeah, I don't know how the car will react. I'll run a puke tank to see if it sucks out too much, but I need to get an oil pressure guage now too, I heard you can lower top end oil pressure with too much vacuum. I'm not sure what this thing will pull, but I have a bleeder screw on the crankcase to adjust it down just in case.

[snapback]129615[/snapback]​

[/b]

if you get a puke tank i would suggest a set of connical strainers to be added to handle any oil vapor seperation duty's much like a drysump system utilizes
an oil pressure gauge would be a good idea, though from allot of what i have studied oil control is the big key to that hurdle, setting minimal rod side clearances (tight end of spec) and tightening the bearing clearances on both the cam and bottom end. beyond that not many have issues even running 18+ inches of vacum, though all the lip seals are installed backwards to keep atmosphereic pressure out of the crankcase.

with the volum of air in a 3400 crankcase i dont believe that pump will pull much with the size of the pulley on it, especially if there is a decent amount of blowby, but every little bit helps...besides its not like you have gas ported/dykes rings equipped pistons...or do ya?
a bleeder/orifice screw? or a vacum bypass valve like what you can get through Grainger?

<!--QuoteBegin-Ron Vogel@Jun 13 2006, 09:34 PM
I actually wanted an electric pump, but they aren't cheap enough. From what I read, I'll be losing 6-8 HP just to run the pump to net 25ish.

SSBC makes a decent pump, but even on Ebay they go for over $100. I hear the Late Eighties Caddilac pump will pull about 7-8 inches of vacuum, and the mid-eighties Olds Ciera diesel pump is good for an electric.

I've been spying the Ford powerstroke mechanical, the GMC 6.5TD, and some import (Renault/Ford) ones. I like the GMC TD one because of the pulley (and that take one very difficult (expensive) to solve problem out of the loop).

I was also considering a rotay vane pump like the Moroso, but using an aviation one. Airborne has a bad reputation in the aviation community, and many of their pumps are removed and replaced...all of these diplaced pumps show up on Ebay, and go anywhere from $30 to $150.

I was lucky and won this paticular GM pump for $30 shipped!

[snapback]129623[/snapback]​

I myself was also looking at some of the older vane type smog pumps and modifying them to work with rear 3800 but i think i found a possible solution while doing more research on the planned air to freon IC for the 442, the new variable displacment AC compressors, the oil mist from the crankcase would be more than enough to keep everything happy and with a microcontroller you could control the "vacum pump" through the rpms of the engine, this would require us using two AC compressors but thats not too much of a headache since the rear engine has had the PS deleted along with the AC compressor that was on it., not to mention how large of an area we have to work with...

but for now the big goal is to get the turbocharger on it, then sort out the rest...

best of luck to ya, regards, James

 

[imported_Ron Vogel]

So you're saying an A/C compressor can be used as a vac pump? That's interesting, might be worth looking into!

I forgot the name of the place, but a company on the web is selling vac pumps for race cars that look suspisiously like OEM parts...I should take another look, I bet they were AC compressors.

PS: I think I'm OK on the blowby issue. For the last few weeks I've been monitoring my crankcase pressure with a gauge, and it always stays at 0.

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

Originally posted by Ron Vogel@Jun 14 2006, 02:34 AM
So you're saying an A/C compressor can be used as a vac pump? That's interesting, might be worth looking into!

I forgot the name of the place, but a company on the web is selling vac pumps for race cars that look suspisiously like OEM parts...I should take another look, I bet they were AC compressors.

PS: I think I'm OK on the blowby issue. For the last few weeks I've been monitoring my crankcase pressure with a gauge, and it always stays at 0.

[snapback]129645[/snapback]​

oh yeah they can...and you wont believe how much vacum they can suck down too...i had a 97 GM express van pulling 29 inches on the low side with a completly clogged orifice tube, i just hadent thought about it in that way till i was looking at possible air to freon heat exchanger/IC combinations using a PWM expansion valve and a variable displacment AC compressor

i would think that a variable displacment might be best from the standpoint that you can tailor the suction at any rpm with a relativly simple microcontroller and a couple vacum operated switches, as well as reducing the load required to drive the AC compresor/vac pump at high rpm's
and of course the ability to turn off the vacum pump when needed

the swashplate type AC compressors do require an oil mist to be properly lubricated (it doesnt require much) where a york type unit does not but i dont see a york compressor fitting in there, though it works great as an air compressor on my 68 F250, i just need to get tanks to mount to my framerails

 

[GTPquickRB]

this conversation is way over my head....but it sounds like something very cool will result from it all

 

[LPSPEED2]

ummmmmmmm ya................ im dumb, i dont even wanna try to figure out what your trying to do. i just wish u luck!

 

[LPSPEED2]

i didnt think it was possible, but i think ron vogel can now take on chuck norris.... vin diesel though, thats another story...