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Old 04-13-2011, 11:19 AM   #1
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Default need help on installing a double roller timing chain.

Well my timing chain should be here in a couple days. I have 4 days off after the next 2. I am going to make myself install this chain. Problem is that I have zero experience with anything motor related other than accessory crap and intake stuff. I will most likely need a "dumbed down" version of what most people will have to say. I am just going to install the dbl roller as is for now. when I upgrade blocks I will machine it properly.

Also what special tools I will need? I have a torque wrench and plenty of basic tools, but do I need a gear puller or anything like that? Can anyone help me with a start to finish how to guide on how to change to a dbl roller? Thanks in advance!

Is step one take off the flex plate?
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Old 04-13-2011, 12:43 PM   #2
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Is the block out of the car?
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Old 04-13-2011, 01:19 PM   #3
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no, step one is not take off the flex plate. that's the wrong side of the motor. You need to take off the whole front cover, including the harmonic balancer (requires puller). I assume you are going to leave the balance shaft in the motor just disconnected, so no reason to go to the rear cover for anything really.

someone else can fill in the rest. pull off old replace with new. remove tensioner. double gaskets/oil pump cover milled, or use james's method. reassemble etc.
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Old 04-13-2011, 01:25 PM   #4
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Yup, block is out of the car. Appreciate it DD. That gives me a pretty good idea on what to do. What type or size of puller would I need?
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Old 04-13-2011, 03:19 PM   #5
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A harmonic balancer puller... need specific thread bolts for our motors though. James would know the exact ones.

We just pulled a harmonic in his driveway after the meet the other day. need to have the right stuff though.
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Old 04-14-2011, 06:24 AM   #6
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I have a balancer puller and would be willing to help if needed just shoot me a PM
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Old 04-14-2011, 06:24 AM   #7
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I installed mine with no issue
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Old 04-14-2011, 10:23 PM   #8
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nmskull...I doubt you could help me locally, but how much was that puller and where you get it? also anyone else give me a quick run down on what to do here. I figure I would have had more people giving me some help/input, I realize it is another boring 3800 but shit a little help would be nice.
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Old 04-15-2011, 01:28 AM   #9
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Dbl roller came in today and I wouldn't mind getting things done. I get I have to take all the front cover pulleys and pumps off. Once I get to the point where I am looking at the timing chain...what do I do? I thought the orientation of the chain determined if you advanced or retarded timing. this correct? how do i make sure I don't change any of that when switching to the new chain? not tryin to be a dick about this, just want a heads up on what to do cause I obviously have no effin clue and I don't want to fuck anything up that could be avoided. Any help is appreciated. I know someone has to have some tips or something
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Old 04-15-2011, 01:43 AM   #10
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the newer instruction in the RM sets are pretty clear on the timing alignment for straight up adv/ret
break the 1 1/8ths in cam bolt loose, line up oem dots (cam gear dot at bottom, crank at top, remove oem tensioner bolt (8mm)
remove BS drive gear and BS nose gear, make em into wind chimes
slide of cam and crank gears. save crank gear to help install of RM crank gear
the rm you may want to evenly crocus cloth/sand the bore ID's to make install easier

youll want to whack the crank gear on only 3/4 of the way (youll have to slowly alternate between taping crank gear on and slowly using cam bolt to tighten/press on cam gear)
once crank gear is on ~3/4 of the way, get your cam bolt ready and clean the chain/hang it on the cam gear, put bottom of chain on crank gear and line it up with cam nose, thread cam bolt in a couple turns so you dont end up accidently pushing the cam rearward (esp if lifters/pushrods/rockers are removed) if cam keyway is off a little turn the crank a tiny bit.

once the cam gear slides on a wee bit, thread in the cam bolt till it touches it and starts to press it on, make sure timing marks are good, then slowly alternate snugging cam bolt and tapping crank gear on using your old crank gear on backwards.
avoid binding the chain (make it go on parallel)

Tq to spec, slip on oil pump drive ring
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when installing balancer rotate it 360* untill it slips on an additional 3/16ths and no longer rotates BEFORE TIGHTENING CRANK BOLT
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Old 04-15-2011, 01:53 AM   #11
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once again turbo, your the man. I appreciate the write up mano. That gives me a pretty detailed start. I am sure I will have more questions as I go along, but I really don't want to jew this up so I might post up pics and questions as I go. Really appreciate it though man.

On removing those gears, can I just buy a puller from autozone or something? Also best place to get that balancer puller?
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Old 04-15-2011, 02:04 AM   #12
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rent a 2/3 bolt/balancer puller from a parts store...the OEM gears are a slip fit for the Tset as well as the BS gears...the machining of the RM is rather shitty and not really for the american engines thats why i suggested spending a while with some sandpaper/crocus cloth (lasts longer) to clean up the bores

when using the balancer puller grab some 1/4 fine thread long bolts or some 6mmx1.0 long bolts (i use the 6mm as the OEM threads are usually rusty up here in the rust belt so there's less forcing)
you MUST not go more than 6-7 turns into the balancer with these...youll bend the fuck outta the reluctor wheels and be buying a new balancer
leave the pointed nose off the puller center screw and put the flat side of the puller yoke towards the bolt, and thread your balancer (technicly its a harmonic dampner, not a balancer but i digress) bolt in till it's about a 1/4inch or so away from seating (if you found 4inch or longer bolts to thread into the balancer then you can do more of a gap)
you will end up pulling it off till just before th balancer seats against that bolt, then loosen tye puller main bolt a few turns and loosen the crank bolt a few turns, repeat, repeat.

thsi will keep you from making the common mistake of fucking the crank snout threads up or permanently wedging the puller shaft nose into the crankshaft and buying a new crank/shortblock.
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Old 04-15-2011, 05:47 AM   #13
 
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Info like this should be stickied.
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Old 04-15-2011, 06:03 AM   #14
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Even if it's not stickied, we still got James, f*ck CGP
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Old 04-15-2011, 07:48 AM   #15
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Yup, I am actually going to do a idiots version how to here. I am gonna start a new thread and get some pics up for visualization and prolly label stuff and what not. Most of what James said went over my head, but it gave me a really good starting point.

You have to remember I am a nurse not a mechanic. Everything I know I learned from watching and doing, so a lot of part names and technical words will prolly need to be dumbed down. I wouldn't expect you guys to be able to do a pulmonary wedge pressure reading by using straight medical explanations. A dummies guide will prolly be needed.
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Old 04-15-2011, 11:31 AM   #16
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oh yer a nurse...hmm lemme see if i can help

first you look to the left of the drivers footwell for a small lever labeled "hood" carefully pull this twards, you but not too hard lest you rip it off the car

now go around to the front of the car, open hood with a crowbar, this may take a while but youll get it.

now that the hood is open look around your garage for shiny chrome plated steel cylinders with numbers printed on the side of em.....
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Old 04-15-2011, 04:44 PM   #17
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HAHA, that made my day...funny guy this one is. Hopefully I can start on this tonight. I should prolly just get new gaskets for the water pump and oil filter spout instead of re-using them though. Might be a week long dbl roller change...world record style
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Old 04-15-2011, 04:47 PM   #18
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since youll want to go ahead and reseal the oil pan look into felpro CS9917
for the cost of just the oil pan gasket youll get the opg/WP/oil neck/front cover(silicone embossed steel), rear cover and misc orings/gaskets
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Old 04-15-2011, 04:53 PM   #19
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Nice, appreciate that. GM dealership has this or you have to order it? Also, I didn't know the oil pan has to come off. Can I just drop one side of it or do I have to remove the whole thing? Only reason I ask is last time this car was messed with we put that oil pan on thinking it would never be touched again so it is gonna suck to remove
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Old 04-15-2011, 04:58 PM   #20
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AZ/adv/napa/orealy's one of em will have it in stock
if you rtv'd the hell outta it your prob not gonna get the front cover off...or if ya do it's gonna get fuxed up/broken...since this isnt a rush jon if it does you can just go get the gasket set...or at least have it on hand juuust in case...its less than 40$ for the felpro CS9917....zzp sells the OPG for that
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Old 04-15-2011, 05:21 PM   #21
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Nice, appreciate it. I am pretty sure he did rtv the shit out of it so this will be fun. The more I see what is involved with this the more I think I should get someone that knows what they are doing to get this bitch in. want some project money for your cressida? That is a long drive, but I wouldn't screw it up at least
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Old 04-15-2011, 05:26 PM   #22
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i hear 10sec installs em with a hammer and duct tape....he's about an hour closer to ya.

youll have no problem man. as much as i'd prefer you machine it properly im not ******d by several hours of driving
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Old 04-15-2011, 05:49 PM   #23
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I was thinking about bringing it to you really...if you would be down man I would actually consider doing it. I hope your right about no problems. I might just be a pain in your ass for a week until I get it done is all. Really if I am taking my time and you have some patience I could always try and measure to get the chain machined properly. tim wilkersons machine shop is down the road from me. I would say they know how to build race cars and machine things right.
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Old 04-15-2011, 08:31 PM   #24
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ive had plenty dropped off to me i have like 6 engine stands lol
do you have a dial caliper and a good square and straightedge? there's more math involved but you can get all the measurements without mocking up the cam gear as long as you get the crank gear machined properly and temporarily install it (as i said before keep your old cam/crank gears handy, dont toss em out.)
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Old 04-15-2011, 08:45 PM   #25
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haha, thats a lot of stands. The measuring devices are by far my biggest downfall b/c all I have is a tape measure I wouldn't mind buying some tools though since I could use them for something in the future i am sure. If I remember right those calipers cost a bit of money though

I got a feeling the machine shop down the way is gonna be a bit expensive since they do build wilkersons race cars there to my knowledge. Only things I have seen come out of there have been really high dollar shit.
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