đź“° Auto News VW will take around $63b of its almost $200b set aside for EVs to...

Mook

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Continue developing their combustion engines :rofl:


Several automakers are delaying their ambitious goals for transitioning to full electric vehicle (EV) lineups in the near future. Volkswagen had previously estimated that EVs would make up 80% of its annual sales in Europe by 2030, but the underwhelming reception of its ID EV models has led VW to revise its strategy.

Out of the €180 billion ($196 billion) that Volkswagen had allocated primarily for next-generation EVs in 2023, the company now plans to use one-third (approximately €60 billion or $65 billion) to continue developing combustion engines. This was announced by Volkswagen's Chief Financial Officer and Chief Operating Officer, Arno Antlitz. The automaker intends to spend this €60 billion to "keep our combustion cars competitive" amid the slower-than-expected EV transition.

Dave Chappelle Snl GIF by Saturday Night Live
 

Chet Donnelly

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Semi-good read in the WSJ today about woke policies now spurring anti-woke activism because companies caving to ESG pressure is, in some cases, providing worse results for shareholders. The car companies caved into EV's way too fast. I have zero doubt it will ultimately be the future, but they tried to rush it way too fast.


A new kind of shareholder activism is rattling companies: “anti-woke” agitators. Shareholders have voted on 70 measures opposing traditional ESG initiatives at S&P 500 companies through the end of May this year, up from 30 two years ago and seven in 2020, according to data from ISS-Corporate, a unit of proxy adviser Institutional Shareholder Services.
 

GLIGTO

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Unpopular opinion but, I truly don't believe that EVS are the future. Think about it, every other Automotive thing that has come up to replace the last thing has always been driven by Innovation and demand. Fuel injection, coil-on-plug ignition (hell distributorless ignition for that matter), direct injection, mainstream use of forced induction such as turbo charging, you could go on for hours but you get the point. Each of these things fixed a problem or was a solution to something. What problem exactly does an EV solve? I suppose for those that actually believe we're running out of oil on the planet, I disagree but okay fine let's go with that for a moment: Why is specifically EV the answer? Why not something like hydrogen powered vehicles or other alternative fuels? What makes the EV SUPERIOR (and honestly why TF are governments pushing it so hard)?? I can tell you this, it certainly isn't our access to, or the cost of electricity. If we're honest with ourselves, our electronic Grid in this country, and most others, cannot handle a mass switch over to EV's. Also if we're talking about America, it's not like we're the ones who are providing the natural resources to build the batteries for these pieces of crap. We're getting it all from who? China! So the more of these things we buy, the more we benefit the chinese, not America .
Better for the environment? LMAO if you believe that I got a bridge I can sell you, anyone who's done more than 10 minutes of research knows that's utter BS (going back to China for a moment, have you seen how dirty their mining operations are and what kind of *Cough*slavelabor*Cough* they use?)
So what's really "better" about EV's? As far as I can tell, they're not better or Superior to gas engines in any way other than making full torque at zero rpms. But, your average Joe really doesn't care about that and to them, it's just a gimmick. Most non-car people (which is really most people) don't care about the 0 to 60. Overall, gas engines are still Superior in all the ways that matter.
 

Dave M

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ummm not burning hydrocarbons and releasing the resultant chemicals into the atmosphere?
I'm sure no hydrocarbons were expelled while mining for the battery materials, making the batteries, or shipping them over by cargo ship running on crude oil. Have you ever seen a cobalt lake, or the effect on the land from mining for the minerals? Sheesh...
 

radioguy6

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Unpopular opinion but, I truly don't believe that EVS are the future. Think about it, every other Automotive thing that has come up to replace the last thing has always been driven by Innovation and demand. Fuel injection, coil-on-plug ignition (hell distributorless ignition for that matter), direct injection, mainstream use of forced induction such as turbo charging, you could go on for hours but you get the point. Each of these things fixed a problem or was a solution to something. What problem exactly does an EV solve? I suppose for those that actually believe we're running out of oil on the planet, I disagree but okay fine let's go with that for a moment: Why is specifically EV the answer? Why not something like hydrogen powered vehicles or other alternative fuels? What makes the EV SUPERIOR (and honestly why TF are governments pushing it so hard)?? I can tell you this, it certainly isn't our access to, or the cost of electricity. If we're honest with ourselves, our electronic Grid in this country, and most others, cannot handle a mass switch over to EV's. Also if we're talking about America, it's not like we're the ones who are providing the natural resources to build the batteries for these pieces of crap. We're getting it all from who? China! So the more of these things we buy, the more we benefit the chinese, not America .
Better for the environment? LMAO if you believe that I got a bridge I can sell you, anyone who's done more than 10 minutes of research knows that's utter BS (going back to China for a moment, have you seen how dirty their mining operations are and what kind of *Cough*slavelabor*Cough* they use?)
So what's really "better" about EV's? As far as I can tell, they're not better or Superior to gas engines in any way other than making full torque at zero rpms. But, your average Joe really doesn't care about that and to them, it's just a gimmick. Most non-car people (which is really most people) don't care about the 0 to 60. Overall, gas engines are still Superior in all the ways that matter.

we're being forced into EV using classic fear mongering tactics (climate change) while doing it in the most hypocritical way (ocean freighter barges, heavy earth moving equipment, finite metals for batteries, child labor, etc). It's an industry disruptor, and a massive transfer of wealth using tax dollar subsidies. Its shaking up the auto industry, driving up costs, there will be many losers that will be scooped up later on sale for pennies on the dollar. Meanwhile enrich the billionaire investors flying around in their private jets by preaching to us how gas cars are the reason for "climate change". I'm still surprised with Obama v3.0 in office, we have not seen another cash for clunkers to take away more perfectly running vehicles off the road.
 

Stink Star

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I'm sure no hydrocarbons were expelled while mining for the battery materials, making the batteries, or shipping them over by cargo ship running on crude oil. Have you ever seen a cobalt lake, or the effect on the land from mining for the minerals? Sheesh...
You know you need to mine oil and refine crude into gasoline (which uses a fuck ton of electricity) too right? Around here, the break even point to equal emissions of an ice vehicle when you include all the emissions from manufacturing is only like 15,000 miles. With pure coal electricity, that’s more like 40,000 miles but still well within the normal life expectancy of any vehicle.
also, concerning cobalt, more cobalt is used making cell phones and laptops than EVs. And the amount used in EVs is dropping drastically.
 

Dave M

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You know you need to mine oil and refine crude into gasoline (which uses a fuck ton of electricity) too right? Around here, the break even point to equal emissions of an ice vehicle when you include all the emissions from manufacturing is only like 15,000 miles. With pure coal electricity, that’s more like 40,000 miles but still well within the normal life expectancy of any vehicle.
also, concerning cobalt, more cobalt is used making cell phones and laptops than EVs. And the amount used in EVs is dropping drastically.
No kidding, but I don't go around sniffing my own farts thinking my EV is somehow good for the environment.
 

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No kidding, but I don't go around sniffing my own farts thinking my EV is somehow good for the environment.
Neither do most EV owners. They just like the smooth drivetrain and lack of scheduled maintenance. Non-EV owners tend to talk about how “bad” they are, yet are grossly misinformed at best.
 

Bob Kazamakis

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Control of what? There’s nothing inherent about an Ev that can be controlled any more than an Ice vehicle.
You can’t control features as a manufacturer? You can’t control charging limitations as the government? You can’t watch how a person drives as an insurance company?

I know gm was being sued for selling info to insurance companies. I’m sure the other things can very easily start happening. I bet there will be EV charge times happening in California at some point because they’re struggling with power storage vs usage
 
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I know gm was being sued for selling info to insurance companies.
Yes, but this was their ICE vehicles, not an EV thing. The government can just as easily restrict fuel production and deliveries just like they could restrict charging so it’s just a bullshit government problem, not a vehicle problem

And as far as California goes, they actually have a surplus of energy, just a deficit on delivery. This is not an insurmountable problem. And having people generally charge at night helps the grid because it doesn’t need to ramp up and down as drastically
 

radioguy6

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there is far more potential for control and loss of freedoms through EVs, but in theory any modern internet connected car could be controlled or manipulated. EVs could also lock out the driver, self drive itself to a destination. I cant imagine the dystopian shit to come once human driving is made illegal too.
 
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