On Topic U.S. Agrees to Peace Deal with Taliban


N20GT

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You guys act like there was this big orderly line and it was easy. From the video content I've seen, you had folks with papers and a bunch of folks who did not. You see a bad job, I see a great job. You are not even thinking about the folks who where there who needed to be evac'd, they knew the original date was May set by Trump and they are still there? Would you guys still be there, I know I would not go there on vacation like I saw some stories of green card holders... I mean come on.
OK, we'll agree to disagree on the people left behind, but I'm curious how you justify the equipment that was left behind?
 

bikrboy128

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You guys act like there was this big orderly line and it was easy. From the video content I've seen, you had folks with papers and a bunch of folks who did not. You see a bad job, I see a great job. You are not even thinking about the folks who where there who needed to be evac'd, they knew the original date was May set by Trump and they are still there? Would you guys still be there, I know I would not go there on vacation like I saw some stories of green card holders... I mean come on.
The current admin knew the their government would fall, why wasn't an evacuation happening months ago while our military was still in control? Biden was too busy making sure this wasn't going to make him look bad, instead of getting our people and equipment out safely.
Biden is solely responsible for this monumental fuckup. His advisors told him this was a bad idea, but he went through with it anyway. I guess he was counting on people like you to say the job he did was "good enough"
 

Blood on Blood

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You guys act like there was this big orderly line and it was easy. From the video content I've seen, you had folks with papers and a bunch of folks who did not. You see a bad job, I see a great job. You are not even thinking about the folks who where there who needed to be evac'd, they knew the original date was May set by Trump and they are still there? Would you guys still be there, I know I would not go there on vacation like I saw some stories of green card holders... I mean come on.
Again, blaming the abandoned
 

Pro Stock John

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OK, we'll agree to disagree on the people left behind, but I'm curious how you justify the equipment that was left behind?
I've read they disabled vehicles and helicopters. Looks though like they left behind a bunch of guns, I don't like that part. I think some of the flying footage we are seeing is helicopters that were part of the Afghan army.
 

Pro Stock John

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Again, blaming the abandoned
Sure I am. I read an interview of a green card holder who said he was not able to get evacuated... "We were here visiting family..." I'm like what??? I know that's one story of many, and it sucks if folks who had papers got left behind. I don't if the evac was left to the last minute, sure comes across that way in the media. I tend to think that a POTUS who says 'do this' then relies on the chain of command to execute. Time will tell and the story will come out.
 

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Yeah, the withdrawal was signed in 2019 with a target of May 2021 to have everyone pulled out. Had I lived in Afghanistan in 2019, for me the clock would have been ticking, and I would have been working on getting out of there.

I wonder what our POTUS + military leader conversations are like, lots of back and forth I wonder how nimble and responsive that group is. I'd say that Biden is a career politician and was VP obv, so this was not his first rodeo so why did this all end up seeming all last minute. I guess I wonder how hands on he was and whether there was a breakdown farther down the chain of command.
 

Blood on Blood

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Sure I am. I read an interview of a green card holder who said he was not able to get evacuated... "We were here visiting family..." I'm like what??? I know that's one story of many, and it sucks if folks who had papers got left behind. I don't if the evac was left to the last minute, sure comes across that way in the media. I tend to think that a POTUS who says 'do this' then relies on the chain of command to execute. Time will tell and the story will come out.

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bikrboy128

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This dude was on TV saying how strong the Afghan army is and how they aren't going to fall knowing full well that they were crumbling. How are the people in Afghanistan supposed to know when to leave when you have the president gaslighting them just days before shit hit the fan. But yeah blame the ones stranded
 

Pro Stock John

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I don't see how the popular definition of gaslighting applies here.

What I see some of you guys doing is mixing speculation with facts, and then act like the concoction you end up with all fact.

Personally I'm curious about why the airlift was all bunched up together in like a week and a half period. I'd like to understand why it worked that way.
 

jason05gt

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You guys act like there was this big orderly line and it was easy. From the video content I've seen, you had folks with papers and a bunch of folks who did not. You see a bad job, I see a great job. You are not even thinking about the folks who where there who needed to be evac'd, they knew the original date was May set by Trump and they are still there? Would you guys still be there, I know I would not go there on vacation like I saw some stories of green card holders... I mean come on.
It wasn't orderly due to the compressed timeline. We were caught with our pants down and had to rush, which could have been prevented having leadership with contingency scenarios. To say that this was a “great job” shows a lack of objectivity to the facts.
 

BADAZZTEALCOBRA

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Personally I'm curious about why the airlift was all bunched up together in like a week and a half period. I'd like to understand why it worked that way.
Lack of planning and leadership, hence everyone’s shock that you think the administration did a good job.

I think the vast majority of us agree we needed to end it, the way it was done is the issue.
 

b00sted

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Lack of planning and leadership, hence everyone’s shock that you think the administration did a good job.

I think the vast majority of us agree we needed to end it, the way it was done is the issue.
Right. And I'm sure the majority of us were aware that this would eventually lead to a power vacuum that the Taliban would fill. The issue is the the horrendous way in which the pull-out was executed.
 

BADAZZTEALCOBRA

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The simple fact that they put troops back into the country means they didn’t plan for this correctly at all.…

The minute you saw the Afghan army was just running away from the Taliban far away from Kabul should have been your indicator to pump the brakes, and start pulling all our gear we were going to give them to fight off the Taliban. Should have been a slow retreat, take out our allies from an area, take our gear, take our troops…. Nice slow pace all the way back to Bagram. The last place to evacuate should have been there, not the Kabul airport.
 

Maro

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The simple fact that they put troops back into the country means they didn’t plan for this correctly at all.…

The minute you saw the Afghan army was just running away from the Taliban far away from Kabul should have been your indicator to pump the brakes, and start pulling all our gear we were going to give them to fight off the Taliban. Should have been a slow retreat, take out our allies from an area, take our gear, take our troops…. Nice slow pace all the way back to Bagram. The last place to evacuate should have been there, not the Kabul airport.
Sounds totally feasible with the ~2,500 troops we had there
 

bikrboy128

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Nah guys Biden did a bang up 100% perfect job. Fuck those people that didn't make the planes, they should've figured it out sooner. Besides what's a couple hundred Americans and a few thousand allies left to die at the hands of an 8th century goat fucking terrorist regime (who just got outfitted with a bunch of sweet modern tech thanks to us). All that equipment had some wires cut and a hammer taken to the interior. No way those will ever drive again

*chugs copium* aMeRiCa'S bAcK
 

Flyn

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John, it looks like you are taking Biden's (supposed) number of Americans left and dividing the total number airlifted. Most of the airlifted were American supporters. Their numbers left behind aren't mentioned by Biden so your math may be flawed.

Even so, if we had kept Bagrad and had an orderly evacuation while using air support to prevent the Taliban from taking the country ahead of the deadline, the numbers would be 0 or very close to it. The withdrawal was FUBAR.
 

Pro Stock John

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Again we are all mixing what we've read and filtered that through our political stances to come up the statements we make on this message board.

The one thing we kinda of agree on is that we needed to get out of there, 20 years was too long and too costly. The rest we don't agree, how it was handled. I'm not going to walk back my comment that .0008% left behind is hardly anyone, you guys are smart you know that. But emotionally I would not want anyone left behind too. But at some point you have to move forward and not sit there and replay over and over the mistakes that they/me/you made in a particular scenario.
 

Flyn

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Remember, Trump was the one who brokered the peace agreement. He included stipulations that the Taliban would not take advantage, which they did under Biden. I'm not being political, just stating facts. Of course, I think Trump's admin would have done a better job. Biden has 50 years of screwing up America's world politics stance. What did Obama say about Joe again? Don't underestimate his ability to fuck things up or something like that. Who knows him better than Obama?
 

Mr_Roboto

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I will say I'm far more inclined to think that there would have been consequences for violating the terms of the treaty under Trump which didn't happen under Biden.
 

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