🔧 BUILD Turbo 3800 T56 Swapped G-body Grand Prix w/ Holley EFI

[Turbocharged400sbc]

60* bellhousing for 4l60e?

 

[bs009]

It's definitely a bellhousing that I'll have to use here. Not sure if I want to let the cat out of the bag yet completely though
I've been sprinkling a few images in this thread about what's coming but nobody has picked up on them yet

I have a few more parts I'm waiting for before the trans finally goes in, but I'm hoping that can happen soon. It looks like I might have to have the driveshaft shortened 2" too

 

[v6buicks]

Booo!!!

Now I'm gonna troll all the pictures and see if I can find any hints. Lol. I can't wait to see you came up with.

 

[bs009]

Going to start working on getting one of these ready to be installed soon. Just waiting on a few parts:

This is probably the best hint I guess actually. The other things in here were too subtle

Will it be:
4l60e number 1
4l60e number 2,
the leaf blower?
the box fan?
or something else?

 

[v6buicks]

Box fans are electric, have multiple speeds, and last forever, so it's basically a 4L80e. Door number 4!

 

[bs009]

hmmmmm

okay cat's out of the bag anyway ?

New transmission is a brand new close ratio T56 Magnum built for an LS1 F-body. Rated for 700 ft-lbs of torque so hopefully this one doesn't shred itself apart too

I've hated how sloppy the 4l60e was and how weird it was for the 3800's and all of it's oddities. Definitely didn't want to actually put money into it to fix it. I intended for this car to have a stick initially and once I broke the T5 I knew this was what had to happen next. Won't be as quick in the quarter mile but is going to be way more fun to drive and going to give me a lot more control back. Maybe next year It'll get a camshaft and a second turbo to see what this thing can really do. I think I'm going to have to replace the motor before that happens though, found some metal shavings on the magnetized drain plug so the current L67 might not be worth putting money into.

Lots of clearancing needed for the starter so there's a lot of metal shavings there.

Still need to make a crossmember for this thing and the driveshaft is going to need to get cut 2" too but it's really close to being ready.

THIS SWAP WAS EASY AF!

 

[v6buicks]

 

[v6buicks]

Are you using a Mal Wood adapter?

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

Is that 3/8 or 1/2 inch steel?

 

[bs009]

Yup, Malwood adapter, 1/2" thick which seems like the best size for the input shaft and the slave cylinder.
More details coming soon!

 

[bs009]

Been sick all of last week so progress has been slow. Not Covid but not sure what it really was. Still kinda getting over it.

Got the crossmember sorted out finally though.
Decided to just cut up the factory crossmember for now. Eventually I'll probably redo it with some nice roll cage type tubing but this is fine for now and still pretty light.

Starting piece:

Butchered:

Kinda set where it needs to be. T56 mounts lower and much further back than a 3800 style 4l60e:

Braced and installed. Someday I'll even paint it

Had to cut up a lot of the floor and patch up a lot of it for the shifter to fit nicely:

So much easier to weld sheet metal with a working MIG welder

Also had to move the parking brake lever because the shifter is so far over to the right and back from where it was. Also means I need to make a new set of cupholders too because my center console won't fit anymore.

Oh and I also forgot to mention that I rebalanced my flywheel myself. Obviously it's not going to be perfect but apparently lots of people run the factory L36 flywheel on L67 motors all the time. I figure if I can at least get it a lot closer than what they're running I'll be happy with it.
Step 1 was to align the bolt holes on the L67 flexplate and the L36 flywheel, then mark the same hole on both of them as a reference hole. Use a laser level to line up that hole relative to your lawn mower blade balancer.
step 2 was to balance the L67 flex plate on the mower blade balancer and figure out where the weight needs to be and how much relative to that hole.

Step 3. Drill the L36 flywheel to match the weight and location and double check it like 20 times.

Had to drill a few holes on the bottom left side of the picture but the balance came out pretty well, or at least as well as I could probably get with this method.
Hopefully it doesn't shake the crap out of the engine anymore than a stock L36 flywheel would.


Also getting some new toys for it this year hopefully before power tour:

Top middle is a WOT box! Really excited about that and the new electronic boost controller. Hopefully this gives me a lot more control over the boost pressure in this thing.

 

[SpeedSpeak2me]

I don’t know how I missed this thread, but I have a real soft spot for the Grand Prix’s.

I had a 79 SJ in Jade green with the anemic 301. Followed that with an 81 LJ with the 3.8, that was white with landau top.

I really miss those cars. Always wanted an Aero coupe.

 

[bs009]

Got a little bit more done now.

Trans is installed again for hopefully the last time before power tour or at least until I shred this clutch. Got the hydraulic lines bled out too and the clutch is feeling verry nice right now.

Got the interior put back together for the most part to so I could work on wiring. Basically spent the whole weekend removing all of the 4l60e wiring, and moving some wires back the way I had them before I switched to the auto trans. Little things like the clutch pedal switches so you can't start the car unless the clutch is all the way down.

mess of auto trans wires.

Mess of interior wiring that I tried to clean up a little bit. Honestly want to just redo everything though haha

Slightly less messy afterward. Still need to tuck in the newer fuse box and ground bust though.

Also wired in the WOT box. Basically it interrupts power to the ICM for a launch control and no lift shifting.

Not sure how much I trust it right now though so I added a relay to bypass it when I don't have a switch flipped in the car. This way if the box fails for whatever reason I can turn it off and go back to the way the ICM was wired before with a switch in the cabin.

Added a few more switches to the switch panel, and mocked up where the boost controller will go. new switches are for the roll control, anti-lag, and the scramble button for the boost controller.

I'm probably going to move all of them though because I'm building a new center console now. Gotta have cupholders in the car right?

Also finally sorted out the parking brake brackets for the disc brakes for now. I think I'm going to need to find OEM rear cables though from a junkyard because I'm not sure how much I trust the ferrules I used.

Apparently I don't have any pictures of the linkage bracket I remade but it's kinda cool

Started working on the new center console tonight too because I'm waiting for parts again:

Still kinda mulling over how I'm going to design it now and what's going where on it. Switch panel is going to be closer to me though and the cupholders are going a little further up front by the stereo.

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

To be honest you should probably set up some sort of shifter neutral switch so that you can start it without the pressing the clutch. It's the easiest way to wipe the bearings in an engine is high pressure plate forces on your thrust bearing while dry starting .

 

[v6buicks]

That's awesome! Which WOT box? I'm going to want a review... And videos lol

 

[sktchy]

Also wired in the WOT box. Basically it interrupts power to the ICM for a launch control and no lift shifting.

Not sure how much I trust it right now though so I added a relay to bypass it when I don't have a switch flipped in the car. This way if the box fails for whatever reason I can turn it off and go back to the way the ICM was wired before with a switch in the cabin.

I've wondered if one of these would be worth doing but don't see alot of them in use. 2 step seems like it could be alot of fun on these but at the same time it seems like a good way to break more stuff and might be a pain with the waste spark ignition?

 

[sktchy]

That's awesome! Which WOT box? I'm going to want a review... And videos lol

Go figure were both drooling over anti lag at the same time ?

 

[bs009]

To be honest you should probably set up some sort of shifter neutral switch so that you can start it without the pressing the clutch. It's the easiest way to wipe the bearings in an engine is high pressure plate forces on your thrust bearing while dry starting .

That's something I had not considered at all
Eventually I'd like to be able to do boost by gear so I'll have to see what's out there for sensors that I can use to tell if it's in gear and what gear it's in.

That's awesome! Which WOT box? I'm going to want a review... And videos lol

I'm trying out the N2MB WOT box for this one. ZZP sells them but I found mine used on ebay for about half the price.

N2MB WOT Box

The WOT Box adds two major features to any car. They are No-lift shifting and 2-step launch control. Both of these features are completely user-programmable using the WOT Box Graphical User Interface. The No-Lift Shift feature makes no-lift shifting easy by cutting your engine's ignition for a...

zzperformance.com

I'm not anticipating any issues with it. Even with waste spark ignition there's always one of the two cylinders that needs spark to ignite and if it doesn't get it the mixture is going to burn in the exhaust like this intends it to.
I do see one review saying it doesn't work on the 3800's there but I'm not sure if that guy wired it up correctly. If he spliced the wire at the fuse then that would cause issues with other sensors and power signals. That review mentioned it cuts the pcm signal to the injectors if you do this but I'm not so sure about that. I'll need to test it and see.

I don't think a lot of people use them because they can load the turbo against the converter since most 3800's are automatics. There's no way to build boost before launching without this in a manual so it's pretty much needed if you're going to run seriously at the drag strip. The no lift shifting capability seems like it could have a lot of potential too.
For now I just want to be able to do burnouts easily

 

[v6buicks]

For what it's worth, I messaged ZZP about 3800 capability. They were very confident that it would work just fine.

 

[DEEZUZ]

To be honest you should probably set up some sort of shifter neutral switch so that you can start it without the pressing the clutch. It's the easiest way to wipe the bearings in an engine is high pressure plate forces on your thrust bearing while dry starting .

 

[bs009]

Tested out some of the new toys a little bit. The 2 step definitely kills spark but I set the rpms so low that I didn't get a good chance to put it to the test. It killed the engine because I had the RPMs so low. Once I get the wheels aligned I'll take it out to the country somewhere where I can really test it out.
Got the boost controller all set up now too, and it looks like I've plumbed up the roll control backwards for how I want to use it. So I'll have to remake some brake lines now for that then.

Spent most of my weekend tracing out wiring issues. Apparently the PCM sends 12v through the fan signal wires when they're not grounded. That was causing a lot of issues in my interior wiring with the switch panel. Also my aftermarket bus bar was apparently not bridged on all of the posts. I only wasted an hour tracing the issue back to that haha.


Finally decided to swap out the rear speakers from the old blown factory speakers. Not going for sound quality in the sound system in this car, just want something livable on the long road trips.

Finally also convinced myself to pull out the factory stereo and just put in the aftermarket one in it's place. I liked the look of the stock radio, but I'll admit this does make the car look slightly less ancient inside it.
This stereo is still pretty old actually I bought this one back in 2010 I think and the good old Pioneer never fails.

I'm also done making cupholders for this thing again.

I like it a lot more than the old one so far, I think it looks way better in person

old one:

Haven't taken the car on the street yet but the transmission goes in and out of gear pretty well and the clutch works just fine. I have a slight driveline vibration while it's in gear, might check the driveshaft angles and adjust the trans mount but I think once it's on the ground the vibe will go away. We'll see though.

I'm pretty much done with all of the big things I wanted to get done before power tour aside from the brakes, wheels/tires, and the rear end.
I really want to get new tires on the car beforehand though and have been having a hell of a time getting the wheels I want. I recently cancelled an order I had with summit I made 7 weeks ago and ordered instead through a place called carid who had them in stock, but supposedly even with them in stock they're not going to ship until August 19th which really blows. Going to call them tomorrow and see if I can get them to push it faster or get a better estimate.
I'll also need to replumb the line lock too so I get to bleed the rear brakes again.
Otherwise the car is pretty much ready for an alignment and to go for some testing of all of the new parts. Just really wish I had everything I ordered before Power Tour starts but I know the rear end isn't going to make it.

 

[v6buicks]

These delays are driving me crazy. Once I'm done writing this response, I have to email a small shop whose been sitting on my $400 order for a month.

I'm getting worried about the whole vibration situation myself. I just got my new yoke but failed to remember that the stock Camaro one-piece utilizes a big damper which I'll have no choice but to eliminate. The old Volvo crowd runs into these issues as well with their T5 swaps and one piece drive shafts. No matter how perfect their angles are, the vibrations are pretty bad. It seems that they found a factory Ranger yoke with a big damper and 1310 u-joints that might be the ticket, but that doesn't help us too much since we have 31 spline outputs. Hopefully, resetting the pinion and trans angles get you good enough results!

 

[bs009]

I'm also thinking it could be the spider gears causing the vibration too in the rear end since I just ran it up in the air. I will definitely check out the driveline angles though and make sure that looks good and also double check all of the u joints. I don't have a lot of room to raise the transmission up if I need to though.
This car didn't have any sort of dampener from the factory like that, wonder if that's there on Camaro's for the traction bar setup or something? I don't think there's anything to worry about for not running one, maybe it's just a slight vibration that you might feel without it. Can't say I've ever noticed an aftermarket driveshaft that had a damper installed on it

 

[bs009]

Called up carid today, pretty interesting on hold music from them btw. Sounds like the wheels might ship sooner than expected. I'm going to try to do an at home string alignment since I replaced the tie rods and swap over to the larger brakes in anticipation of the new wheels arriving in time. ?

 

[bs009]

Found out the driveshaft came back with a greaseable u-joint in it, I'm betting he didn't grease it and that's the cause of the vibe I was getting. Threw some grease in it so we'll see how it does on the road.

I think she's road worthy now, but we'll see if I forgot to tighten anything down as I go down the road.

Found out my blazer knuckles were pretty bent up though so I went and replaced those too this weekend. Also gave up on finding a good remanufactured steering box. I'm on my 2nd one now and this one is crap too.
I went and pulled a box from a Jeep Grand Cherokee in the junkyard this weekend instead. Seems to have a lot less slop in it than anything I've bought remanufactured so far. These supposedly have a pretty quick ratio but right now I just want something that isn't sloppy AF.

If this doesn't work out I'm just going to buy a Borgeson unit

Side note: LKQ wanted to charge me $10 for a power steering hose that was cut and still attached to the box

Old knuckles/spindles or whatever people are calling them these days:

New ones

I ended up removing all of the spacers in the bump steer kit to get the tie rod and LCA level. Kinda surprised at that, but that might have just been because my car is so low though.
Did my first string alignment too so we'll see how accurate that was. I'm feeling pretty good about it though