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🔧 Technical Thoughts on running E20 instead of straight 93 for knock protection?

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01bluesnake

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Funny story Ken from PBD was at Bradenton last night with the shop TT Gt500. We were talking about value per HP and he says it’s not coyote but the GT500. Those are still the kings of power per dollar. He said they just bought two more base ones new for sticker. He ran a 9.7@147 letting off half way and also botching the launch. The car was not happy. I have a video.
He's smoking crack if he believes that. His GT500 with a TT setup, built motor is easy 140-150K, a coyote would be half that. I'm honestly surprised he is still battling that car and can't run faster then high 9's, he could of went faster with a stock blower.

Fuck, didn't even think about it, but that's what my GT350 runs stock motor and stock banger trans lol
 

ZXMustang

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Feb 19, 2019
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He's smoking crack if he believes that. His GT500 with a TT setup, built motor is easy 140-150K, a coyote would be half that. I'm honestly surprised he is still battling that car and can't run faster then high 9's, he could of went faster with a stock blower.
I think he had it turned way down and was trying to get the launch control to be happy with something they were testing. That car made 1400 he said and is capable of 1800. Thats what he said.
 

01bluesnake

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I think he had it turned way down and was trying to get the launch control to be happy with something they were testing. That car made 1400 he said and is capable of 1800. Thats what he said.
I'm sure the car is capable of that power on the dyno, but the fact is can't squeeze more out of it, even in the back end is kind of odd. He's been stuck at that number for some times now.
 

01bluesnake

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Its not hp its the god damn DCT trans.

Its pointless to try make a GT500 a fast drag car. LOL Midnights running 200 on a stock computer with a 6r80 for less than what i bet Kens got into that GT500 LOL!!

The DCT is goofy trans for sure, i still don't tune them, no access, or at least as much as i like, i should say. Lund tunes all the GT500's that come through my shop, has them nailed down.
 

01bluesnake

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I was at MIR for Finals of Import Vs. Domestics and Midnight gapped the fuck out of a white GTR at almost 200mph.

GT500s cool for a street car but Ken could put a TH400 in that car and itd run 8s instantly LOL
Yeah, midnight cars work really well, but most don't weigh anything lol. DCT GT500's are going 8's, which is why i don't understand Ken seems to be having such trouble to knock the time down. I do agree with throwing a TH400 in it, would be nasty.
 
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sktchy

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I wanna add to this conversation that while you would be better off going to e85 when your ready, you won't be able to play with the knock sensors like you have here. 3⁰ of kr with boost on corn sauce will most definitely send a piece of piston through the turbine wheel.
 

ZXMustang

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I wanna add to this conversation that while you would be better off going to e85 when your ready, you won't be able to play with the knock sensors like you have here. 3⁰ of kr with boost on corn sauce will most definitely send a piece of piston through the turbine wheel.
We havent changed anything with the knock sensors. But picking up knock and the car pulling timing is what its supposed to do. As I said, the car picks up knock even with the OEM tune and 93. Thats insane but true. Thats why I wanted to run something easily sustainable like e20 to increase octane without anything like Meth or having to add $20 a gallon MS109 and so on.

Im not trying to tune for e20 or anything above 93. Im trying to buy some knock headroom for 93 without some expensive or elaborate fuel system. Thats not being cheap or unsafe. The Octanium is working to fight knock, and its cheap. Like $23 for a 32oz bottle. And I can add a full bottle to a full tank and get like 97/98 ish octane but it does what it does to the plugs and sensors. Not super concerned about that. Plugs are not expensive and neither are 02s. I log the car just about every time I drive it, so Im always watching it. If I see the fuel trims starting to get stupid, out will come the plugs.

Once I get my wide band installed and the flex fuel sensor, I will 100% do e20 full time. Just have to get those parts installed here soon.
 
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sktchy

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I forgot this was a blower car for a second there so no turbine wheel to go through. I understand where your coming from and knock is ok in stock form on pump gas. It's not so good when you start pushing things and the ethanol will for the most part mask it until it's too late. Just wanted you to be aware.
 
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ZXMustang

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I forgot this was a blower car for a second there so no turbine wheel to go through. I understand where your coming from and knock is ok in stock form on pump gas. It's not so good when you start pushing things and the ethanol will for the most part mask it until it's too late. Just wanted you to be aware.
Ah totally understand. I appreciate you sharing your experience too here. I've learned a bit. Thanks.
 
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1quick

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I wanna add to this conversation that while you would be better off going to e85 when your ready, you won't be able to play with the knock sensors like you have here. 3⁰ of kr with boost on corn sauce will most definitely send a piece of piston through the turbine wheel.
He would also have to push the car super hard to come anywhere near 3° of kr on e85 though l, like add 200whp to what he has now and would still be super safe on e85, I’ve never pushed a set up hard enough to actually see knock on e85
 

sktchy

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He would also have to push the car super hard to come anywhere near 3° of kr on e85 though l, like add 200whp to what he has now and would still be super safe on e85, I’ve never pushed a set up hard enough to actually see knock on e85
Almost every time I've seen it happen there's been destruction along with it. This is where mbt and watching where it stops making jumps in power really come into play and why I don't like bouncing off the sensors even with pump fuel. Even though on gas there's a fair bit more warning before glitter.
 
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01bluesnake

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He would also have to push the car super hard to come anywhere near 3° of kr on e85 though l, like add 200whp to what he has now and would still be super safe on e85, I’ve never pushed a set up hard enough to actually see knock on e85
E85 won't knock, just looses power when your over advanced, but that is with a good ethanol percentage. If you are picking up knock on E85, it is very likely false, but it can also be due to piston scuffing/rattle as it is a very dry fuel and does wonders to oil (not in a good way) that are not E85 stable, will wash them off the wall. I always add in top end lube specific for E85 on my car, but it is also being pushed extremely hard.
 

ZXMustang

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E85 won't knock, just looses power when your over advanced, but that is with a good ethanol percentage. If you are picking up knock on E85, it is very likely false, but it can also be due to piston scuffing/rattle as it is a very dry fuel and does wonders to oil (not in a good way) that are not E85 stable, will wash them off the wall. I always add in top end lube specific for E85 on my car, but it is also being pushed extremely hard.
Either way, full E85 on these cars is a pipe dream for all but full on racecars. You'll end up being $10k into fuel system to do it right. And port injection is a BITCH to tune from what Im hearing.

The hot setup is E60 and meth. Thats doable with minor fuel system mods like a cam and dual pumps and bigger injectors. Still $10k, more like $14k when you add in heads and all the supporting parts and install but then you can get 4 digits quite simply. And thats with the factory blower ported. With a maggie like I got, its 1200+. Most guys go opposite of what I did. They do all the max effort shit with the stock blower then after a while they finally pull it and do the maggie or whipple or swap to an F1A-94 procharger setup. Then after that comes the big fuel systems and bigger motors. At that point you are 1400hp+.
 

sktchy

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Anything over e60 is kind of a waste anyway there isn't much to be gained after that point. Keeping the consistency is the hard part and the meth would help as far as keeping afrs down as well.
 

01bluesnake

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Either way, full E85 on these cars is a pipe dream for all but full on racecars. You'll end up being $10k into fuel system to do it right. And port injection is a BITCH to tune from what Im hearing.

The hot setup is E60 and meth. Thats doable with minor fuel system mods like a cam and dual pumps and bigger injectors. Still $10k,
more like $14k when you add in heads and all the supporting parts and install but then you can get 4 digits quite simply. And thats with the factory blower ported. With a maggie like I got, its 1200+. Most guys go opposite of what I did. They do all the max effort shit with the stock blower then after a while they finally pull it and do the maggie or whipple or swap to an F1A-94 procharger setup. Then after that comes the big fuel systems and bigger motors. At that point you are 1400hp+.

Maybe im confused, or reading that wrong, but your saying doing a fuel system the right way is 10K, but then below you have an example of one that is not done right way, but half upgrades and meth and still 10K. If i'm gonna spend 10k either way, i would rather not have to blend fuel constantly to make E60 and now also have another piggy back (meth) waiting to fail and eat my motor. I can't tell you how many motors i use to replace due to problems with a cars meth system. Thankfully most guys have ditched it in the Mustang world.
 

Blood on Blood

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It absolutely blows my mind you havnt bought a loaded coyote or Mach 1 and put a whipple or twin turbo kit on it. It would absolutely shit all over a modded ZL1 or Hellcat for a fraction of the price and headache. There are a zillion proven 4 digit hp 9 8 even 7 second combos out there. Hell Midnights got a car running 200 mph traps in the 1/4 on a STOCK computer.

If you have E85 in your area pay do the supporting mods for a fuel system and run E85 all the time.

Anything less is a bandaide and a headache.

I believe he previously had a Coyote GT, Hellcat Challenger, ZL1, Hellcat Charger and now the ZL1

You want him to start the merry go round all over again?
 
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