🔧 Technical Thoughts on running E20 instead of straight 93 for knock protection?

[ZXMustang]

Wondering who has mixed a bit of e85 with 93 to get a small e content bump for knock protection?

Im tuned for e10 93 like normal. And I was using VP octanium with the 93 effectively bumping it to 96/97ish octane. I was running +2* over the 93 only tune and it was loving the octane. No knock and felt like a monster.

But I pulled the plugs after two tanks of octanium and they were coated in the orange dust. I put in fresh plugs because I did MSD wires and opened the gap a tad, and I dont want to do this again to fresh plugs. I'd like to run a splash of e if possible. Tuner said it should be fine as long as I keep an eye on low/high side fuel pressures as well as injector pulse width - which I can do with HPT. I log every run.

Wondering if anyone here has done the e20 or even e30 ( I wont do that), to gain some octane without running MS109 or some sort of octane booster?

This is what the plugs looked like... Only two tanks of octanium. It was like Cheeto dust. Would mostly wipe off but left orange behind.

Click to read more...

 

[Mook]

What the hell is octanium and why do your plugs look like that??

Also, I can't see e20/30 hurting anything.

 

[ZXMustang]

What the hell is octanium and why do your plugs look like that??

Also, I can't see e20/30 hurting anything.

The orange cheeto dust is the byproduct of burning the MMT thats added into the octane booster. Its the shit that raises the octane. They say its ok for plugs and cats, but looks like thats maybe not the case...lol I still have cats, but if I destroy them I'll just get headers like I planned on.

 

[Mook]

Why are you running octane booster for 93?

 

[01bluesnake]

Stay away from octane boosters, or lead additive type stuff unless you really need it, kills O2's and plugs. E20 is shit, i wouldn't even bother tuning for it. If you can't do straight E85, just stay on 93oct. No reason to over complicate things

 

[ZXMustang]

Why are you running octane booster for 93?

My car like most ZL1's "ride the knock sensors" even on 93. In stock form they show knock even on the stock tune. So once I was tuned with the bigger blower, most would run Meth or e50/60. I wanted to stay on 93. So I was going to see some knock. This is pretty normal for these DI motors. But with the Octanium, that knock was gone and the car was loving it. I was able to work in 2 more degrees of timing and it would take it no knock. Once I cycled that out for straight 93, I had to pull that timing out and run the 93 only tune. But Im going back to the track and want to put the timing back in and run some higher octane, but not spend the $120 for a 5 gallon pail of MS109. I can get 2 gallons of E for $6...lol

 

[ZXMustang]

Stay away from octane boosters, or lead additive type stuff unless you really need it, kills O2's and plugs. E20 is shit, i wouldn't even bother tuning for it. If you can't do straight E85, just stay on 93oct. No reason to over complicate things

Straight e is a pipe dream for the LT4 cars. I'd need $5k worth of fuel system to get straight E running. Most guys max out at e60 and thats full builds without adding port injection but using meth. Thats not something I can do.

 

[01bluesnake]

Straight e is a pipe dream for the LT4 cars. I'd need $5k worth of fuel system to get straight E running. Most guys max out at e60 and thats full builds without adding port injection but using meth. Thats not something I can do.

That is your standard upgrade now, even for GT500 guys who want to run E, just the cost for making big power safely. I would run 93oct, you can add the octane boost but would not recommend it all the time. Also make sure your diluting properly per fuel amount

 

[ZXMustang]

That is your standard upgrade now, even for GT500 guys who want to run E, just the cost for making big power safely. I would run 93oct, you can add the octane boost but would not recommend it all the time. Also make sure your diluting properly per fuel amount

Yes followed their chart on the bottle. In all honesty the ZL1 is by far the WORST car in this class to mod to big power. In stock form they are excellent packages. Once you want to make 700+ to the tire, its might as well get a hellcat or coyote... Buddy of mine down here selling his 19 redeye wb challenger for decent coin. Thought did cross my mind... Its F8 green too.

 

[IceCreamAssassin]

 

[Jimy Bilmo]

I mean, that’s what knock sensors are for…. If you’re not going to invest in the E setup, just run 93, and maybe a more refined/conservative tune for the street, and up it for track days. Is 100 octane unleaded available at the drag strip or anywhere near there? That’s another alternative for track days.

 

[sktchy]

E20 or 30 is probably going to be close enough that your fuel trims would rope it in anyway. Just make sure to watch your wot afrs to make sure your not going lean and I don't see why a little corn wouldn't help the octane as well as lowering charge Temps.

How much I don't know without doing the math but you figure roughly 30 to 35% more fuel for 85% ethanol and 109ish octane so I'm sure you'd get the desired results and your tuner could trim it in fairly easily.

Getting a consistent mix at the pump would be a bitch though. If your gonna go this route maybe get some of that ignite corn gas in the buckets so you have a better idea of how much to put in.

 

[Bob Kazamakis]

Burger tuning suggested I mix to e30

 

[The Beast]

Yes followed their chart on the bottle. In all honesty the ZL1 is by far the WORST car in this class to mod to big power. In stock form they are excellent packages. Once you want to make 700+ to the tire, its might as well get a hellcat or coyote... Buddy of mine down here selling his 19 redeye wb challenger for decent coin. Thought did cross my mind... Its F8 green too.

That F8 green is the color I had ordered.

Get the red eye

 

[Blood on Blood]

ZXMustang - have you sent data logs to your tuner for analysis and to understand next steps for troubleshooting / remediation?

 

[ZXMustang]

I mean, that’s what knock sensors are for…. If you’re not going to invest in the E setup, just run 93, and maybe a more refined/conservative tune for the street, and up it for track days. Is 100 octane unleaded available at the drag strip or anywhere near there? That’s another alternative for track days.

Track pumps were down from water contamination from hurricane IAN. They are still down I think. I can get MS109 down the street from the track in a 5 gallon pail. It’s $120. Ouch. But I might do that if the e20 thing is too sketchy. Just very tempting to squirt in 2 gallons at $3 a gallon vs 5 gallons of 109 at $120. Oh also I tested the E at my station and it was e80 a few days ago.

 

[Ron Vogel]

I’ve played with a lot of e mixes, and almost always reverted back to e40. E20/e30 are more of a pain in the ass to mix right, and didn’t really see the benefit. I got my best results e40-e60, but e 40 is a little easier on the fuel system.

 

[sktchy]

Track pumps were down from water contamination from hurricane IAN. They are still down I think. I can get MS109 down the street from the track in a 5 gallon pail. It’s $120. Ouch. But I might do that if the e20 thing is too sketchy. Just very tempting to squirt in 2 gallons at $3 a gallon vs 5 gallons of 109 at $120. Oh also I tested the E at my station and it was e80 a few days ago.

I mean maybe if your in Florida the consistency may stay at that 80% mark but further north they tend to drop content into the 60s for winter. If your serious about doing this a good wideband is gonna be something you want to have.

 

[ZXMustang]

I mean maybe if your in Florida the consistency may stay at that 80% mark but further north they tend to drop content into the 60s for winter. If your serious about doing this a good wideband is gonna be something you want to have.

I got one now. Putting it on tomorrow.

 

[Jimy Bilmo]

Track pumps were down from water contamination from hurricane IAN. They are still down I think. I can get MS109 down the street from the track in a 5 gallon pail. It’s $120. Ouch. But I might do that if the e20 thing is too sketchy. Just very tempting to squirt in 2 gallons at $3 a gallon vs 5 gallons of 109 at $120. Oh also I tested the E at my station and it was e80 a few days ago.

Gotta pay to play

 

[ZXMustang]

Also have a flex fuel sensor coming next week. Keep in mind I would just use e20 to keep away the knock. As it stands in good air on 93, I see a bit of knock at 6200. Pulls like 3.5-4 degrees and it takes a while to ramp back in. I can actually feel it when it happens. On the octane booster I was clean to 6400 topping out at 24* - see below.

 

[ZXMustang]

Gotta pay to play

I mean totally. $120 to safely protect what is easily a $15k long block. Cheap insurance.

 

[Blood on Blood]

Also have a flex fuel sensor coming next week. Keep in mind I would just use e20 to keep away the knock. As it stands in good air on 93, I see a bit of knock at 6200. Pulls like 3.5-4 degrees and it takes a while to ramp back in. I can actually feel it when it happens. On the octane booster I was clean to 6400 topping out at 24* - see below.

View attachment 139816

Did you data log and send the results to your tuner for analysis / next steps?

 

[sktchy]

3 or 4⁰ of kr can be a broken piston real quick. You might get away with it on 93 for a while but if you play around like that on ethanol your gonna have an oil pan full of glitter.

 

[ZXMustang]

3 or 4⁰ of kr can be a broken piston real quick. You might get away with it on 93 for a while but if you play around like that on ethanol your gonna have an oil pan full of glitter.

The point was to try and use the E to raise the octane to stop KR. No other tune changes from 93, I "should" be able to splash in 2 gallons of E and top off the rest on 93 and that would theoretically raise the octane to something equal to 100 Im hearing.

Im not going to tune for it and try to make more power with it. Just keep the power I should have without KR. Am I off on that? Same Id be doing with the MS109. Putting in 5 gallons of that and topping off with 93 should pump that up to over 100 I bet. No other changes, that would stop the KR and let the car sing. Thats what we saw with that octanium octane boost.