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The Official Trump Presidency Thread - IMPEACH! J/K - We never meant it (Day 3)

Flyn

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Unbelievable. Now you're deflecting from the trillions in spending Biden has promised and I mentioned. Answer why that's OK for him when it's hugely more than Trump will ever spend. Can you answer without deflecting?
 

Flyn

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Word of the day is "stonewalling". As in President Trump is stonewalling the impeachment investigation. DEMS don't want that House vote to start the impeachment investigation (15 days and counting with no vote) but it's Trump who is stonewalling the investigation. Multiple repeats of the word across the MSM today. Do they all get memos or something?
 

Mr_Roboto

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*shrug* I don't think it's an impeachment personally. They can't/won't do that because it means they have certain obligations in terms of transparency, information release and rights based on precedence. In the mean time they have an investigation they claim is an impeachment that's really not.
 

Flyn

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...and, because they are using DEM controlled committees for the investigation, it's reported that the REPS don't get to cross examine or call their own witnesses. No due process.

It's a scam and a fishing expedition.

Approaching day 16 with no House vote on impeachment.

Some DEM Congresspersons are for the vote. Others say they don't need it.

Rep. John Garamendi (D-Calif.) on Wednesday said he thinks the House should hold a formal vote on launching an impeachment inquiry, contradicting Democratic leaders who argue it's unnecessary.

Garamendi, who does not serve on any of the main committees leading the impeachment inquiry, predicted the House would have the votes to launch an inquiry.

"I think it's time for us to put a vote on the floor, a resolution for the inquiry structured in such a way that it can move forward with full power of the Congress behind it," Garamendi said in an interview on "CNN Newsroom."

"That will further strengthen Congress's hand," he added.

"They want a fight, OK," Garamendi said of the White House. "Then let us arm ourselves completely and totally with the full power of Congress."

Other Democrats have said that a formal vote authorizing an impeachment inquiry isn't needed because the committees already have subpoena power due to rules changes made by Republicans when they held the House majority.

Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said in a letter last week to House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) that existing House rules provide committees “with full authority to conduct investigations for all matters under their jurisdiction, including impeachment investigations.”

And in a letter last week issuing a subpoena to acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney, House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff (D-Calif.), Oversight and Reform Committee Chairman Elijah Cummings (D-Md.) and Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Eliot Engel (D-N.Y.) cited Jefferson's Manual in noting that "in the House various events have been credited with setting an impeachment in motion."

"A vote of the full House is not required to launch an impeachment inquiry, and there is no authority for the White House to make this claim," Schiff, Cummings and Engel wrote.

President Trump and his GOP allies in Congress argue that Democrats' impeachment inquiry is invalid unless the House conducts a floor vote to authorize it.

It's interesting that this Cali. DEM wants the vote. Is that a sign of dissension in the party? I'd bet he knows he'll still be reelected if he votes for impeachment. Putting some pressure on the Trump state DEMS who don't want the vote?

This is going to go to the courts which will drag it out for months.
 
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nytebyte

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Word of the day is "stonewalling". As in President Trump is stonewalling the impeachment investigation. DEMS don't want that House vote to start the impeachment investigation (15 days and counting with no vote) but it's Trump who is stonewalling the investigation. Multiple repeats of the word across the MSM today. Do they all get memos or something?
They actually DO get all the same memos. I remember reading about how the DNC literally distributes talking points each day to people in their party, including the media. That's why no matter who's talking or what fake news channel you're watching, they all use the same phrases and language. They've been doing it for a while, but it was really apparent during the 2016 elections.
 

Mr_Roboto

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That's pretty ugly, but looking through the poll I find it interesting they don't list the affiliations by percent of the people polled. It could be oversampled is my point.

There's 13ish months to the election, I don't know if they're going to be able to keep this in the news that long. People have short memories and besides that there's still the IG report to come out. If that has damning evidence in it of wrongdoing by the intelligence community this could easily backfire. It may anyways especially considering the limited scope of evidence so far.

Then again, Trump could pull defeat from the jaws of victory on this one and say a bunch of stupid things and get himself in hot water. Actually, the hot water part is almost certain.
 

BADAZZTEALCOBRA

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It's a Fox News poll, so I would assume their samples would lean more towards the Republican voter, I'm guessing if CNN did the poll that number would be mid 50% or almost 60%.

In any case, like you mention he keeps bringing a lot of this shit onto himself. If he wouldnt have said anything about China investigating Biden then the few Republicans who had to say that was wrong wouldn't have had to get involved.

Honestly, I think he needs to shut up completely about it, and just simply say "let me know when they have a vote" and keep pounding it home that they still havent even put things to a vote.
 

Mr_Roboto

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It's a Fox News poll, so I would assume their samples would lean more towards the Republican voter, I'm guessing if CNN did the poll that number would be mid 50% or almost 60%.

In any case, like you mention he keeps bringing a lot of this shit onto himself. If he wouldnt have said anything about China investigating Biden then the few Republicans who had to say that was wrong wouldn't have had to get involved.

Honestly, I think he needs to shut up completely about it, and just simply say "let me know when they have a vote" and keep pounding it home that they still havent even put things to a vote.
Very inclined to agree, especially if the IG report is damning. It could be a dud but I think there's more evidence of the FBI being biased than there is of the Russian Collusion that the Democrats pushed as of now. He may be gambling on this and the reason I say that is if he drags Pelosi into stuff like Schiff is saying they all look progressively worse as Trump causes them to get dragged into the radical camp. Time will tell though.

I think the optics of Rudy skulking around the Ukraine are bad even if it seems like a lot of others have done it already. There's already front channel investigations happening having the image of him doing back channel stuff is not helpful.

If anything he needs to be hammering the fact that this isn't the first time this has been done (by the Democrats at that) and it wasn't ever really called out by anyone. He needs to be pointing out that almost any conversation could be considered a quid pro quo by their standards. A few congresscritters including Dick Durbin sent a letter to the Ukraine that could easily be considered as much a quid pro quo as what Trump said for instance. He also needs to be hammering home the lack of bipartisanship and transparency in the proceedings and how it's without precedent both as a rallying cry to his base and to turn the stomachs of people who don't like the government operating against people with a stacked deck. He should also be pointing out that calling them impeachment hearings without a vote is unprecedented and then label the impeachment headlines fake news. He should be saying Kavanaugh's name and mentioning the Mueller Report a LOT at this point and remind people that the Democrats are holding evidence free political circuses looking to get anything they can.
 

Mr_Roboto

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https://www.foreign.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/5-4-18 Menendez joint letter to General Prosecutor of Ukraine on Mueller investigation.pdf

Here's the letter if you haven't seen it. They say that "This reported refusal to cooperate with the Muller Probe also sends a worrying signal-to the Ukrainian people as well as to the international community-about your government's commitment more broadly to support justice and the rule of law." If you read into that they're saying there needs to be cooperation or they will be isolated from the international community and left to fend with the Russians on their own. It's 100% an ink blot test (you see what you want to) but so is the call transcript with Trump.
 

Intel

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OK, let's go with the $15 Trillion Joe Biden mentioned. (Flyn drops mike)
Deflecting with plans from people that aren't in office (and won't make it to office at this rate) as your form of defensive whataboutism for Trumps spending deficit going even higher. You are comparing facts and results vs pie in the sky plans and wondering why it isn't an apple to apple comparison.
 

Mr_Roboto

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Whataboutism vs pointing out hypocrisy is a fine line. A lot of people will claim whataboutism when they do as they tell others not to.
 

Kensington

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I mean, we all see the impeachment as merely a distraction technique, as anyone with an ounce of intelligence knows, it's not going anywhere, right?

In other news, a bi-partisan bill is out to ban all arms sales, and sanction any country that sells arms to Turkey. Not really going to stop Turkey's genocide of the Kurds. The Kurds that have been instrumental in beating ISIS on the ground. The Kurds that are STILL holding ISIS members in prisons. The Kurds, who now have to stop beating back ISIS to defend their own lives against one the most powerful countries in the Middle East. And all we had to do was keep our promise to our ally (which has been one of, if not best, allies in the region) to die at the hands of Turkey. But hey, ISIS can regain control in the region. We can lose Turkey as an ally to Russia/Iran, and lose a seat of power in the region.

I've long been a supporter of "the middle east is fucked, let's get the fuck out and let them figure it out." But it's clear, dat oil, is too important, and maintaining a strong presence and supporting allies in the region is more important now than ever. But God damnit, pick the right fucking allies!
 

Kensington

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There are a lot MORE reasons why it's a bad idea...our relationship with them was hanging by a thread recently anyways. If Trump saw this as an "out" and is gambling with the lives of our most loyal ally in the region and going back on a promise, that sends a pretty shitty message all around.
 

ragingclue

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Did anybody besides me watch the video where the retired colonel explains his views on Trump's move with Turkey? 4D chess. Trump's a genius. Etc.
The guy who claimed the Marines and Airborne now are as relevant as horse cavalry in the 1930s? While also advocating the Army restructure their forces in the mold of the MAGTF?

I think I'll stick with Mattis on this one, thanks.
 

Kensington

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The guy who claimed the Marines and Airborne now are as relevant as horse cavalry in the 1930s? While also advocating the Army restructure their forces in the mold of the MAGTF?

I think I'll stick with Mattis on this one, thanks.
Nobody with really an ounce of credibility is coming to Trump's back on this. Shit, even his most staunch supporters in Congress have condemned the decision. Let's call it like it happened. Trump had a nice call with Erdogan, where Erdogan "promised" to not do anything, and that drawing back troops would be best for everyone!" Trump, as he's wont to do, is taken in by this promise as had happened time and time again, and Erdogan gets EXACTLY what he wanted, US troops out of the way, so he can clear out the Kurds. The same thing happened with Kim Jong Un....Un promised "Oh yeah, all those nukes, they're gone! We're going to stop testing rockets and nukes too!" Trump got up on his soap box and blasted around that he had "de-nuclearized" the peninsula. But you know what's still on the peninsula? What's still being tested? Oh. Yeah. :picard:
 

ragingclue

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Well to be fair, Macgregor is a genius in his own right, tactically on the battlefield. But he's also notorious for being a political dissident and throwing others under the bus, as well as sometimes being very risky in his application of his unorthodox tactics. Hence why you could be such a great tactician and get forced out like he did. And it wasn't just about not being a "yes man". I've read a couple of his books and there's some damn good stuff in there, and he's got some damn impressive accomplishments under his belt in the Army, but I'm not so sure weighing in on this action by Trump is where his forte is. I have a ton of respect for the guy but he's a toolbag in his own ways too.
 

Flyn

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Everybody wants Syria.

Turkey wants it as a buffer zone against Kurd attacks.

The Kurds want a new Kurdistan

Iran wants a path to Lebanon

Russia wants their ally to stay in control.

American business interests want an oil pipeline.

People I don't see mentioned are the American people. Why should our kids go fight in this regional war?

Plus, Trump has really annoyed some powerful people with this move. Is that a bad thing?

Change my mind.
 

Kensington

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Since 2014, 8 American service members have died in the Syrian conflict and in support of the Kurds. Any death is a tragedy, but American services members in the region are supporting the Kurdish fighters, and have not been necessarily directly in combat situations.

You are a fool if you think that Erdogan just wants a "buffer zone". He has, time and time again, waged war against the Kurdish people. Is it coincidence that the Kurdish people are located primarily in his planned "buffer zone"?
 

Mr_Roboto

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Since 2014, 8 American service members have died in the Syrian conflict and in support of the Kurds. Any death is a tragedy, but American services members in the region are supporting the Kurdish fighters, and have not been necessarily directly in combat situations.

You are a fool if you think that Erdogan just wants a "buffer zone". He has, time and time again, waged war against the Kurdish people. Is it coincidence that the Kurdish people are located primarily in his planned "buffer zone"?
Shit that was all Hitler wanted when he took the Rhine too, wasn't it?
 

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