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The official 2020 Toyota Supra thread


Jeffs FRC

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In terms of car weight, when I think approximately, I'm thinking within 50 to 100lbs at most. Not 400!

I know my car is probably a bit over 3800lbs. I wouldn't tell someone it weighs approximately 3400. Lol
 

Jeffs FRC

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Thats exactly how misinformation gets spread around the ole interwebz. You get one moron that doesnt know what he's talking about, and a whole group of even bigger morons eating the shit up and respreading it.
 

Jeffs FRC

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I didnt have to look it up. I saw your comment and was like wtf is he talking about???

All you have to do is say you were wrong...
 

SpeedSpeak2me

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R&T had the same problems with the window-down wind buffeting that I encountered:


With both windows down, the Supra's wind buffeting is unbearable. It's an infuriating defect that's particularly frustrating in a sports car meant for joyrides.

A Supra showed up on my doorstep last week—the new 2.0-liter four-cylinder model, which you can read about here. It came at an opportune time. After months of dreary cold, the weather in New York City was starting to feel positively spring-like. I don't need to tell you that the past few months living in NYC have been challenging. So I relished the opportunity to hop in a sports car and spend a few blessed hours beyond the walls of my apartment, cruising some country roads on a glorious sunny day.

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That daydream fell apart in the first five minutes of my drive. And it's all due to a design flaw that I assume a company like Toyota could easily fix.

See, if you roll both of the Supra's windows all the way down, and you drive faster than 35 mph, you're greeted by some of the loudest, most intense wind buffeting I've ever experienced in a car—that cyclic, low-pitched WHUM-WHUM-WHUM noise that sounds like you're standing underneath a hovering helicopter.

It's positively maddening. Plenty of cars demonstrate this phenomenon at a certain speed, or with the windows opened to a specific position. You've probably noticed it in your car. It seems to happen most often when you crack a single rear window on a four-door vehicle, alleviated by cracking a window on the opposite side.

The Supra has two windows. The buffeting seems to happen any time you've got both of them open. Doesn't matter if they're cracked an inch or all the way down—if you're driving faster than neighborhood speeds, you're sitting in the middle of a Toyota-shaped Helmholtz resonance chamber. I drove myself crazy trying to find a window arrangement that would cut the buffeting, and the racket nearly made my girlfriend carsick. If a perfect setup exists—some combination of driver's-side window 73-percent open, passenger-side 89-percent closed—I could not find it.

I understand why this problem exists. Modern cars have to be as aerodynamically slick as possible to meet today's fuel economy demands. That means controlling the airflow over every inch of the car's surface. When you open a window, you're wrecking that carefully-controlled airflow. A designer can't account for all of the infinitely varied window positions you can achieve, devilish window-switch maestro that you are, so there will inevitably be a spot that creates some unpleasant noises.

In the Supra, it happens any time you've got both windows open. But the buffeting is at its worst with both windows rolled all the way down—you know, the way we all like to drive when the weather's nice out. It's a small detail that points to a misunderstanding of this car's purpose. A sports car isn't meant for purely pragmatic transportation. You wouldn't build a car like this, with wide sticky tires, paddle shifters, and an exhaust that lets out little thunderclaps on deceleration, if you didn't want people to use it for aimless joyrides and country-road blasts, the idle wandering we all enjoy.

The Supra doesn't allow you to rest your arm on the windowsill while you're driving. Maybe that's a small sacrifice to you. To me, it feels like a shirt collar you can't unbutton, a tie you can't loosen, a stereo that falls into screeching feedback at any volume above a polite murmur.

On a recent conference call with Toyota engineers, a fellow journalist asked about the wind buffeting. Toyota's answer: Owners don't seem to mind. The company has not received enough complaints through its customer hotline to raise concerns. Next question.

Maybe Toyota's hands are tied. Maybe there's no easy solution to the problem. Perhaps a fix would involve drastic changes to the car's profile, or rearranging structural components that cannot budge, or hurting the aero in a way that would cause cascading problems. Let's not forget that this car is made hand-in-hand with BMW—maybe solving the buffeting would require uncomfortable conversations between the two automakers. Who knows.

All I can tell you is, it's a defect that leads to huge disappointment. And in a car that's meant to bring pure, joyful driving excitement, that doesn't sit right with me.
 

Dan00Hawk

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For the wind buffeting, there is a $75 insert that goes by the mirrors that fixes it. Ridiculous that Toyota didn't engineer the car properly in the first place, but at least there's something to help owners.

 

sickmint79

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3.0 (track oriented as per toyota) 3400 lb 382/368 hp/tq active diff 19" wheels
2.0 3200 lb 255/295 mechanical lsd 18" wheels smaller brakes - apparently more like mid-engine and with freed up engine bay space

Supra 2.0: $45,000
Supra 3.0: $52,000
Supra 3.0 Premium: $55,000
Supra A91 Edition: $57,000

interesting they brought up the windows for track, in other countries i've been the rule is generally they have to be at least half up (south africa, australia) i had full up (not a track day) in UAE. in the US afaik everywhere is windows fully down - you may be able to do slightly up if raining a lot. the belief outside the US seems to be this protects you in a roll over from having your parts hanging out the window. in the US it seems to be no barrier between you and an emergency team trying to extract you from the car.

there is always a rumor mill about turbo versions but it seems the next 86 is likely to be 2.4 n/a 217/177 and i assume still 2800 lbs? plus a manual gearbox. current msrp is $27 +2320 with sachs/brembo/18in wheels and tires package.

it would be interesting to see what you can do oem/how much more you need to spend on these for some reliability stuff if you were to push it at the track, eg. the 86 needs an oil cooler... need some suspension stuff likely if you want to get some more camber... are both those already good to go for either supra or do they both needs some more help and money too?

i was really hoping for some more lightness from the 2.0 supra. i really enjoy having a car that is only 2800 lbs and wouldn't be eager to give that up. even if something fatter is well tuned and doesn't feel as fat... it still is fatter. and it's kind of glorious never having to worry or fiddle with my brakes (i have stoptech calipers on it now) - i can go a season without even changing the fluid once, and i never worry about running out of brake.

buying new for something i'd plan on tossing around i'd still go with the brz. used market in 5 years though, a 3.0 supra or 2.0 well modded up might be more interesting to me though.
 

Bru

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I just drove both. 2.0 has open diff, single piston front calipers, smaller front rotors and is tuned for comfort vs the 3.0. Plus the wheels are cast vs forged. It has good power, but def not an 86 alternative. And because it’s a BMW, not unlikely to be that less expensive than the 6.

Edit: looks like they broke the pricing embargo.
 

N20GT

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Thats exactly how misinformation gets spread around the ole interwebz. You get one moron that doesnt know what he's talking about, and a whole group of even bigger morons eating the shit up and respreading it.
This is the internet in a nutshell. On forums misinformation gets destroyed immediately, but on social media it spreads like WILDFIRE
 

SpeedSpeak2me

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For the wind buffeting, there is a $75 insert that goes by the mirrors that fixes it. Ridiculous that Toyota didn't engineer the car properly in the first place, but at least there's something to help owners.

Toyota should be providing those at no charge for how bad it is.
 

SpeedSpeak2me

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I’ve driven a handful of C4’s, from 90’s to 96’s, and never had that kind of buffeting at that low of speed (35-45mph). Highway speeds, like 60+ you’d get a bit. Fortunately they had a little bracket so you could pop the rear glass open an inch or two so air would flow better.

With the Toy my ears felt like they were going to rupture at 45-50mph.
 

Bru

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It’s worse than a C4. The car is undrivable with the windows down. This is how I solved it on my short loan. Cardboard and painters tape. 100-percent solved it.

24153EBC-5727-43CD-AB50-4B0C2829C085.jpeg
 

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