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BUILD The misadventures of sktchys turbo 3800 catfish
- Thread starter sktchy3.8
- Start date
Little 2 day 1/8 mile drag and drive between here and i29 towards the end of april. I think they filled spots but said they'd make exceptions for cool stuff and I'm pretty sure that upside down m90 would qualify as that.
I think I'm gonna give it a go and try and have somebody follow with a trailer. I've got no intention of being competitive but it'd be an accomplishment in itself to make the round trip and I'm all for supporting the local tracks
I think I'm gonna give it a go and try and have somebody follow with a trailer. I've got no intention of being competitive but it'd be an accomplishment in itself to make the round trip and I'm all for supporting the local tracks
After spending some time digging up oiling tech stuff (mostly from James old threads on here and 3800pro, which isn't real easy to find but is well worth it) I have a bit of free time tonight so I finally talked myself back into the garage to see if I can sort out this oil pressure thing.
Got the filter housing back off and haven't seen a spec of glitter, the leftover sludge I couldn't get out the last time I had it off was gone too Doing a few flushes really does do wonders even though I'm sure the filters weren't happy.
But looking at the bypass springs. This picture is with 3 1mm thick washers in the zzp bypass along with the spring as compared to the oe with no washers. They're the same length uncompressed. Barrels identical other than some discoloration in the oe bypass.
Now I'm sure they've got a "different spring rate" or some excuse here and I'm not going to the extent of trying to figure it out but they feel about the same when squishing by hand. Basically what I'm getting at here is the zzp spring is 3mm shorter than oe and they send a washer with it so that ends up 2mm shorter when installed as they send it. That, the filter housing and the intake are the only things that have been swapped onto my last few engines and they all died the same and quickly.
In my findings I've also come to realize that the bypass doesn't necessarily control pressure but instead works off of restriction of your filter, oe opens with roughly 10 lbs of restriction, or is supposed to, and then just dumps through the timing cover. Wether this will make a difference I don't know.
I'm kind of excited to test my theory but I'm gonna drag my other fbody housing into work tomorrow and get it cleaned up right before I put it back on, interestingly enough they look identical but have different part numbers. My firebird died this same death, and it's possible that filter housing is the one I've been using but I need to look into that further, but I'm hoping I'm on the right track here.
Got the filter housing back off and haven't seen a spec of glitter, the leftover sludge I couldn't get out the last time I had it off was gone too Doing a few flushes really does do wonders even though I'm sure the filters weren't happy.
But looking at the bypass springs. This picture is with 3 1mm thick washers in the zzp bypass along with the spring as compared to the oe with no washers. They're the same length uncompressed. Barrels identical other than some discoloration in the oe bypass.
Now I'm sure they've got a "different spring rate" or some excuse here and I'm not going to the extent of trying to figure it out but they feel about the same when squishing by hand. Basically what I'm getting at here is the zzp spring is 3mm shorter than oe and they send a washer with it so that ends up 2mm shorter when installed as they send it. That, the filter housing and the intake are the only things that have been swapped onto my last few engines and they all died the same and quickly.
In my findings I've also come to realize that the bypass doesn't necessarily control pressure but instead works off of restriction of your filter, oe opens with roughly 10 lbs of restriction, or is supposed to, and then just dumps through the timing cover. Wether this will make a difference I don't know.
I'm kind of excited to test my theory but I'm gonna drag my other fbody housing into work tomorrow and get it cleaned up right before I put it back on, interestingly enough they look identical but have different part numbers. My firebird died this same death, and it's possible that filter housing is the one I've been using but I need to look into that further, but I'm hoping I'm on the right track here.
Wire size is almost identical if not that between the two, at first I thought the zzp spring may be wound tighter but if anything it's just squished more. I did take my calipers and confirm the 3mm difference just to appease myself and I'd like to think maybe I'm onto something but I guess I won't know until I get it back together.
I had one filter adapter come up as correct for the car and the one I've been running is non-existent when searching. I would guess just a superceded part# or something. I was hoping to be able to figure out if I've been using a cursed housing this whole time.
I had one filter adapter come up as correct for the car and the one I've been running is non-existent when searching. I would guess just a superceded part# or something. I was hoping to be able to figure out if I've been using a cursed housing this whole time.
shorter spring with a similar wire gauge? Fuck I'd run a new OE spring if I could get one.
https://www.thespringstore.com/spring-rate-calculator.html
Throw the dims in here and see what you get.
https://www.thespringstore.com/spring-rate-calculator.html
Throw the dims in here and see what you get.
My plan is to clean the other adapter up good and slap the oe spring and plunger in with 3 washers and see where it ends up. I don't think it'd be too much of a stretch to think that'd cause the bypass to come open when hot and start bleeding off oil pressure though? Especially under throttle where surely there's more resistance on the filter due to volume.
The bypass of the oil filter shouldn't vent oil, it should just redirect it around the filter into the galley. It's meant to keep the filter from exploding. The bypass at the pump should go back to the pan in some way or another.
Now then, if you have a bad anti drain back valve in the filter you'll get dry starts which are obviously not good on the engine.
Now then, if you have a bad anti drain back valve in the filter you'll get dry starts which are obviously not good on the engine.
I think if anything it's starving the bearings towards the rear. Alot of
Turbocharged400sbc oiling mods seem to be an effort to get oil back there as quick as possible but I'd think I'd wanna start over with a stripped block before trying to open up bearing holes or drill and tap a hardline from the cover to the rear lifter galley. Not like I don't have a few around to play with if I end up having to.
Turbocharged400sbc oiling mods seem to be an effort to get oil back there as quick as possible but I'd think I'd wanna start over with a stripped block before trying to open up bearing holes or drill and tap a hardline from the cover to the rear lifter galley. Not like I don't have a few around to play with if I end up having to.I think I actually may have fixed it. Got it together and let it run for a good while and even gave the throttle a couple kicks. Started out just a touch under 60 and never dropped under 30.
I can't get it out of the garage because of snow and mud which really sucks but I'm hoping I can finally put this bearing bullshit behind me.
I can't get it out of the garage because of snow and mud which really sucks but I'm hoping I can finally put this bearing bullshit behind me.
It was either that being 3mm short or that other filter adapter is somehow junk. I went ocd on the adapter I put back on it and made sure to get every bit of crap I could out of it before putting it back on and thought about doing a hail mary before I fired it up again.
I'd throw that fucking ZZP shit in the trash before I had the bad idea of using it again. Did they ever make variations of the housings that could have had a shallower passage?
I believe he's referring to the pocket inside the timing cover and in reality you're looking for the plunger to protrude from the timing cover at least a quarter inch to half its length the farther it protrudes the higher the oil pressure will likely be.
It sits flush against the adapter at the pressure Passage before the filter and when the plunger moves inside the timing cover far enough if I recall about 3/8 of an inch it allows that pressurized oil to recirculate back into the inlet of the oil pump. So where inside of the counterbore can cause it to bleed past and produce low or minimal oil pressure especially if the spring is weak and the plunger is not protruding
It sits flush against the adapter at the pressure Passage before the filter and when the plunger moves inside the timing cover far enough if I recall about 3/8 of an inch it allows that pressurized oil to recirculate back into the inlet of the oil pump. So where inside of the counterbore can cause it to bleed past and produce low or minimal oil pressure especially if the spring is weak and the plunger is not protruding
So basically the whole time I thought I was doing myself a favor by putting that spring in, but in reality I just fucked myself repeatedly.
For the length difference it would have to take at least a full coil out of that spring so I'm sure when it heated up it compressed easier and just circled the pump rather than feeding the bearings and everything just ran dry.
If I had a dollar for every lesson this things taught me I'd be a rich man.
For the length difference it would have to take at least a full coil out of that spring so I'm sure when it heated up it compressed easier and just circled the pump rather than feeding the bearings and everything just ran dry.
If I had a dollar for every lesson this things taught me I'd be a rich man.
So now that this is fixed yet stuck in the garage im bored. It's not that I don't have other more productive things I could be doing, but moreso working on this thing is my peaceful place even when I'm at my wits end with it. Car problems are way better than having real problems especially when they're self inflicted.
Anyways enough about that I'm thinking about tearing back into it again. Thoughts on getting away with 136 lb springs on a stock unknown mileage timing chain with stock rockers? I got away with 105s and 1.9s no problem before but I don't wanna pull the timing cover yet and springs would be beneficial if it does decide to take some bewst and a step to eventually putting the cam back in anyway. Give me a chance to toss a leak down tester on it and make sure the valves are sealing well too since these are different heads than the ones I went through and put the springs in since they had a couple broken manifold studs I wanna deal with.
But pulling the damn plugs...
Anyways enough about that I'm thinking about tearing back into it again. Thoughts on getting away with 136 lb springs on a stock unknown mileage timing chain with stock rockers? I got away with 105s and 1.9s no problem before but I don't wanna pull the timing cover yet and springs would be beneficial if it does decide to take some bewst and a step to eventually putting the cam back in anyway. Give me a chance to toss a leak down tester on it and make sure the valves are sealing well too since these are different heads than the ones I went through and put the springs in since they had a couple broken manifold studs I wanna deal with.
But pulling the damn plugs...