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the hole story

GTPPWR

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well here is the jist of of since Mike K had to post as an ignorant person would:

I had bought a set of Diamond racing coated 8:0:1 pistons from the w-body store since they were 80 bux cheaper than Intense...plus I thought I'd help out somebody local. my cursar was still in the bore when I went to scroll down the page but I didnt catch it....it went down to stock bore instead of .020 over which I had wanted/need to match my current block. I get them in the mail about a week later.

I open up the box, just like a boy on x-mas. I open up the piston box, and read the spec sheet.......NOT what I had wanted. I Immediately called wbodystore, and left a message...as well as sent him a PM. I get a messgae on my answering machine stating that he would see what he can do, but he would NOT have a problem accepting them as a return.

LIE number one, he said he didnt have any probelm returning them. :angry:


"Jacob, I'll have to check with Diamond in the morning. Since there are so many options when ordering it's rare that we get an order for the exact same pistons even in the same year. As such, all Diamond pistons are special order. I'll check with them and see what we can do."

I dont hear from him, so I PM him and call again. leaving a message.

I then called Diamond directly and talked to the main operator. she stated that she doesnt see a problem in returning them, but I had to go through Midwest SHO( aka: wbodystore) because I had purhcased these pistons from their site.

I sent this Pm to mike:

"I hadnt heard back from you yet, so I called and chatted with the operator at Diamond. she doesnt see a problem in echanging them. she just needs you guys to call her, and she'll arrange pickup and delivery. I also ask her to send me to a voicemail of her boss, which was betty. I left her a voicemail as well.

Please when ever you get a chance, call Diamond. 3.820 bore, 8:0:1 comp, with the coating. thank you!!!!!!!!!

I kinda need these asap, my motor is currently in the building faze....."

I got this in return:


"We got you taken care of Jacob. FWIW, I did respond to your email (PM) and your voicemail.

Mike Kopstain "

I felt like it was going to be fine and I can get my engine completed this year. :)

then 2 days later on the 26th of october I recieved this from Mike in my PM box:

"Jacob, Please send these pistons back to the return address on the box. We're having the proper set coated and sent.

~ Mike "

I felt soooo happy, Mike had pulled through for me. grand Prix guys stick together right? :eek:

I had bought the pistons with shipping and everything for 950. I spent and additional 23 bux on shipping these pistons back.

I got a call from Diamond 3 days later. asking me what these pistons are for? I explained, and he said that I cannot return the coated pistons. I got soo pissed, felt like someone reached into my chest and tore out my heater. while he looked up Midwest sho for the correct order....he told me there was NONE.

LIE number 2. he said in writing he was having the correct set made...all I had to do was send mine back. Thats a Lie, plain and simple.

I had talked to Eric at Diamond by the way. nice guy!!!!!!!

here is what I sent Mike in a PM:

"I got a call from Eric from Diamond today. wondering what was going on with the pistons I sent back. I filled him in. He then checked to see if the other order had been placed. HE said there was none. then he told me he has trying to get ahold of you guys, but the phone number has been disconnected. whats the deal??? "

here was his reply:

Jacob, I'm going to call him right now. No number of ours has been disconnected. I presume they just have the wrong number.

~ Mike "

then the sadness and more lies come.

that same day 15min later I get this PM:

"Jacob, I just placed a call into them and they're going to give me a call back when Eric get's back in so we can get this sorted out.

Mike Kopstain"

then this:

"Ok Jacob. I just talked to Becky who talked to Eric. Eric notes that coated pistons are not returnable (for the same reason we can't take them back). Do you know who you talked to over there that said that you could return them? As it sits, they've sent these back to you.

Mike Kopstain"

at this point I am on the wbodystores website, in NO place on the return policy does it state anything about pistons. I printed out a copy of it that very same day just in case Mike tried to change it, as well as the other policies.

at this point I am enraged.

my PM to Mike:

"you just lied to me. you had written above that you were having the new pistons sent out to me.

where does it say I cannot return them? I had talked to you on the phone and you said you'd be glad to take them back. or dont you remember this? I am calling you. right now."

his reply:

"Jacob, I said that we would have the pistons sent to you with the understanding that you had talked to them and they said they would take them back. If you note my initial response to your inquiry you'll see that I said I don't think they can do anything because of the fact they are coated.

The only reason I said to send them back was because you had talked to them before I had and apparently they were going to take them back for you... As noted below, from the get-go I didn't think there would be much we could do...

I'm sorry for all the confusion. Have you sinced talked to someone else there that said otherwise?

~ Mike "

my response:

"we had talked over the phone. you said that you would be more than glad to take them back. then you go on and tell me that you had my new ones ordered and they would be sent out to me. I had talked to Eric, he said you had never placed an order. They told me, they couldnt do anything directly to me, because I bought these from you. you lied to me. I dont like being lied to especially since I spent 900 on these pistons. now all of a sudden you "cant" take them back. where in your return policy does it say I cant? I have printed a copy of it out.

I want to know what YOU are going to do. I would like to talk to you over the phone. I work tomarrow until 5pm. I need the right pistons. 815-***-****. call me. or I can call you. "

his response:

"Jacob, Again, the first thing I said to you was that I didn't know if we would be able to do anything since the pistons were coated. If you look at your first PM response you'll see that I said that. I then said to box up and return the pistons and said that we would get the other set out to you based on the fact that you said you already talked to them and they said it was not a problem to exchange them. I had no reason to assume this wasn't the case until I spoke with Eric and Becky today who both say that this was never told to you. I'm happy to talk to you tomorrow but I would appreciate it if you didn't call me a liar because you weren't lied to. I'm happy to help you as much as I can but it's not as if we've been uphelpful so far. You received the product you ordered and now we're trying to help you correct a problem. Please let me help you instead of attacking me.

~ Mike "

my response to his response:

"put yourself in my shoes. you just spent 900 bucks, and got a different bore that you needed. you were lied to. then on top of that the main company lies too you as well. then you come to find that the middle man has backed out of what he wrote. wouldnt you be irate too????"

his response to my response to his response:

"Jacob, I understand it's a frustrating situation but we did send you what you ordered and we sent it in a timely fashion. When greeted with the problem initially I knew it was going to be a problem returning them and should have waiting to hear back from Diamond as I knew coated pistons could not be returned. The only time I told you to go ahead and send them in (and that they would send you the correct pistsons) was after you told me you talked to them and said that wouldn't be a problem. I was surprised to hear that nonetheless.

Do you remember who you talked to at Diamond initially? Maybe I can talk to Eric over there and see if we can't get something done. I'll do everything I can.

~ Mike"

my response:

"it was the main operator at 7pm. shes the one that said she doesnt see a problem, and then she transfered me to becky's voicemail."

his response:

"Their office closes at 4:30 central time so I presume the operator was an answering service. I'll give Becky a call and see.

Mike Kopstain"

then I sent him another one asking him what he had found out?

I didnt hear nayword back form him, then sent another with just question marks, still nothing back.

as far as I am concerned I am out 973 dollars. I have stock bore which is useless on my block. Mike K, LIED to a customer openly TWICE. this struggle with the wbody store was held over 16 days...till I didnt hear back from him.

I realize that he did call Diamond, but highly unlikely that he tried to help me out. when I talked to eric he said that Mike jjust agreed that these were the pistons that were ordered and all is fine. that doesnt cut it.

My advice to all the Wbody owners out the, heck to everyone who oerders parts. DONT go through a middle man, order your parts direct. this middleman is pathetic, and a WASTE of time. is the only reason you started a business so that you could write off all the parts on your car? just from word of mouth...thats what I heard, just trying to clarify that.

I CLEARLY put my thoughts into my sig. thank you.

then Mike got on hear and started this up in the open forum.....how does that make you look like to the readers of this board? the owner fo a company picking a fight with a person that has been screwed over, that speeks his mind.

that doesnt make you or your "company" look good.
 
I

itlnrob

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I give this thread, and you about 20 more minutes on this site.
 

GTPPWR

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as a customer, just stating what I had gone through this past month. I am done posting in this thread. I have spoken the truth and nothing but the truth.

I could careless what flames come from this. the fact is I am out 973.00, would you be mad too?


I am done.

technicly hole.....I got sucked in like a black hole.
 

Fish

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Originally posted by itlnrob@Nov 29 2005, 12:14 AM
I give this thread, and you about 20 more minutes on this site.
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Jesus christ dude. There is NO conspiracy here. Damn. Im gonna start calling you Mikes1998 soon. :p
 

98 TGP TOY

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So you ordered the wrong pistons, which are custom ordered. Were told by Diamond they could be returned. Told it to Mike. Sent in pistons to get exchanged. Diamond cant take them back after they told you they could......

You ever think that Mike was going to make sure they were back to Diamond before ordering new custom ordered pistons? Why order another set of non-returnable pistons before the first set is returned and the money refunded?

Just my opinion. I've heard the "its shipped", "its taken care of", "its been ordered", "it will be out tomorrow" from Wbodystore, ZZP, and Caspers. I've personally come to live with it...though I can understand that $900 is extreme. But it is your responsibility to assure that your order is correct. I always double check my items, address, and credit card info before finishing the order.

Good luck.
 

CoolGTX

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Originally posted by Fish+Nov 29 2005, 01:36 AM-->
<!--QuoteBegin-itlnrob
@Nov 29 2005, 12:14 AM
I give this thread, and you about 20 more minutes on this site.
[snapback]105287[/snapback]​
Jesus christ dude. There is NO conspiracy here. Damn. Im gonna start calling you Mikes1998 soon. :p
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[/b]
X-files
 

Fish

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Originally posted by CoolGTX+Nov 29 2005, 01:56 AM-->
Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2005, 01:36 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-itlnrob
@Nov 29 2005, 12:14 AM
I give this thread, and you about 20 more minutes on this site.
[snapback]105287[/snapback]​


Jesus christ dude. There is NO conspiracy here. Damn. Im gonna start calling you Mikes1998 soon. :p
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X-files
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[/b]
Alright. We will call him Skully then. :lolsign:
 
I

itlnrob

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Originally posted by Fish+Nov 29 2005, 02:03 AM-->
Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2005, 01:56 AM
Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2005, 01:36 AM
<!--QuoteBegin-itlnrob
@Nov 29 2005, 12:14 AM
I give this thread, and you about 20 more minutes on this site.
[snapback]105287[/snapback]​


Jesus christ dude. There is NO conspiracy here. Damn. Im gonna start calling you Mikes1998 soon. :p
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X-files
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Alright. We will call him Skully then. :lolsign:
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yayyyyyyyyyyyy :lol:
 

DaytonaPaceCar

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I would like to add my $.02 to this. Most of you know the type of items we produce as a manufacturer. What many of you don't know is how much of our business is dedicated to contract manufacturing. We make very custom parts for a wide variety of applications/customers. Because of this, I know what it is like when someone orders $xxxx worth of parts and deciedes they ordered them in error. Since we have quite a few distributors, who consequently sell many of our parts at very different prices, we can not deal with the end user in most cases directly. Especially whne it is a custom or special order part. It is up to the distributor to make it right with the end user but that can't always be possible especially when the item ordered was A, ordered in error, and B, custom made. A lot of our customers will promise the end users the moon and the stars before they contact the manufacturer. When it is an expensive product, you can bet the manufacturer will not take the loss or else they wouldn't be in business very long.

I could understand if there was a manufacturing defect or the company sent you the order incorrectly but this order was fufilled to 100% your spec. Errors happen. But you have to take some responsibility for your mistakes. I do believe that Mike is doing everything in his power to make it right but he can't take a loss like that nor can the manufacturer. Given the circumstances that transpired, I can understand how it happened but please understand that the order was placed to your spec.

Don't know if this all makes any sense, but hopefully it adds some insight from a mnufacturers/distributors standpoint. :)
 

Mike K

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I guess I'll add my 2 cents too. :)

I didn't read Jacob's entire post because I don't need to. I know what happened and I know what I've been accused of. So here's the skinny and if anyone has any questions or thinks they're going to catch me in a lie (as Jacob is so sure of) most of you have my number and can get me on the phone.

Jacob ordered a set of pistons. He ordered a set of coated pistons. It is stated clearly on our site that coated pistons are not returnable so we strongly encourage people to check, double check, triple check, etc because we can't take them back. Coated pistons are made to order and Diamond will not allow a return on them.

With that said, Jacob contacted me and said that he ordered the wrong pistons. My first response to Jacob's first PM was that I didn't think there would be anything we could do but that I would contact them and give it a try. I placed my call and before I even got a response from Diamond, Jacob PMed me again saying that he called them, they said it was not a problem to return them and get them exchanged. This surprised me but it was a pleasant surprise. Well, assuming (my fault) that Jacob did indeed talk to someone at Diamond who said this, I told him to send them back to Diamond and that we would order him a new set.

Then reality set in... Eric from Diamond called me (my first response call from Diamond) asking me why he had these pistons on his desk. I explained the situation to him and he just reitterated what I told Jacob from the get-go: coated pistons are not returnable. I hung up with Eric and told this to Jacob. At this point I had spent a couple hours on the phone dealing with this situation. Well Jacob immediately PMed me back calling me a liar saying that I said they would take them back and to send them in. I never said this. Jacob told me that they would take them back before I even got a chance to talk to our rep. From what Eric and I have been able to figure out, given the time Jacob called, it appears he talked to an operator. Eric is sure no one was in the office when Jacob called (their phones automatically go to voicemail answering at 4:30) but said that on the off chance he did actually talk to anyone, it was an operator.

Eric told me he would send the pistons back to Jacob at no cost. I told him to do this. At this point Jacob is calling me everything under the sun. I'm liar; I'm a scammer; "I scammed him out of $900". I have a very different view of the scenario:

Customer orders parts with options
We fulfill order to the "T" and send customer exactly what they ordered
We take hours to try to help customer remedy a situation that was self-induced
We were called liars for even bothering to help

No scam, no lies, just the truth. You folks are welcome to come to your own deductions. If you think I'm wrong I'd love to hear the angle.
 

Mike K

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I open up the box, just like a boy on x-mas. I open up the piston box, and read the spec sheet.......NOT what I had wanted. I Immediately called wbodystore, and left a message...as well as sent him a PM. I get a messgae on my answering machine stating that he would see what he can do, but he would NOT have a problem accepting them as a return.

LIE number one, he said he didnt have any probelm returning them. mad.gif
See this is what's funny... Since I sponsor here John gives me this obnoxiously huge PM box so I save pretty much all of my PMs... The above is absolutely not true. Here are the excerpts from the PMs. I'm sure John Vales can verify that these are accurate if it's questioned:

Jacob's first inquiry:
I had purchased the Diamond pistons from you this past week. I recieved them 2 days ago. I just got down to opening the box today. I had made an error when I ordered these. These have stock bore. I needed the 3.820 bore, with 8:0:1, with the coating. these are stock bore, with 8:0:1, with coating.

would I be able to exchange these?? I just opened the box and saw the spec sheet. can I send them in for an exchange?? what can I do to get the 3.820 bore??????????????
My initial response:
Jacob, I'll have to check with Diamond in the morning. Since there are so many options when ordering it's rare that we get an order for the exact same pistons even in the same year. As such, all Diamond pistons are special order. I'll check with them and see what we can do.
Jacob, It's funny, I was one of the few here that gave you the benefit of the doubt and then this.
 

beyerch

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As a manufacturer, I'll chime in as well.

I have to agree with justin. When something is special ordered, especially, the manufacturer is hardly going to issue you any type of credit, refund, and/or exchange. If the order was filled as it was received by them, they have done their job. (as long as the product is not defective, that is always a different story).

Furthermore, even if for whatever reason a manufacturer decided to refund you, they really can't. We DO NOT BILL YOU, your retailer does. Furthermore, the retailer makes profit on the transactions (that is how they make money). If a retailer collects YOUR money, a retailer needs to refund YOUR money. If the manufacturer were to refund you your complete purchase price they would be LOSING money and that obviously makes no sense.... If you purchased direct, deal direct; otherwise, you should be going through your retailer even for initial support. That is why they are taking a % of the profit anyway, to support THEIR customers.

In this case, you know you ordered the wrong part, you told mike you would contact the manufacturer, and when the manufacturer changed their story (from what we are being told), you are blaming mike for it. As being a manufacturer, the thing that irks me more is when a retailer doesn't send us the order correctly and then we get thrown under the bus when the customer gets mad.... You are trying to throw your retailer under a bus for your mistake though and that isn't right....
 

GTPquickRB

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just gonna throw my .02 in. For all orders over 500 dollars, or other significant amount, where a custom order is produced, a follow up email verfiying the order should be placed to the customer by the retailer to save any further such mishaps. Either way thats one helluva bad situation for all parties involved, because in the end someone isnt gonna be happy.

People are gonna make errors, and a follow up email, although will just be one more step in the end process, will more than likely save a lot of trouble.

Hope something can be worked out. Good luck to all
 

TonzKnock-G

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I ALWAYS check my order before submitting any payment. Its a bad situation but shit happens.
 

alexgtp

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Well consider this a life lesson.

ALWAYS DOUBLE CHECK CUSTOM ORDERS! BECUAUSE THEY ARE ALL NON REFUNDABLE!
 

DaytonaPaceCar

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just gonna throw my .02 in. For all orders over 500 dollars, or other significant amount, where a custom order is produced, a follow up email verfiying the order should be placed to the customer by the retailer to save any further such mishaps. Either way thats one helluva bad situation for all parties involved, because in the end someone isnt gonna be happy.
ppfffftt! I am sure other vendors will vouch for this as well. 9 times out of 10, you will ask a customer "ARE YOU SURE THIS IS WHAT YOU WANT? THIS DOES NOT MAKE SENSE." and even though you tell them, it doesn't make sense, they will say "yes" and want it anyway and 100% of the time, they will try and return the parts anyway because it was ordered in error. I can absolutely say that if I receive 100 calls a day, 50 of them I ask the customer to verify and inevitably, the parts come back anyway.

Every product that ships FROM us directly (with the exception of custom made components) has a blue slip in the box. It is a 20 day return authorization. If for any reason the part does not meet your expectations, you can send it back for a full refund. We have the luxury of doing this as we are the manufacturer. But, like I said, it is for NON-CUSTOM parts ONLY.

Plain and simple, this was a mistake, which happens but I don't see how the vendor/disctibutor can be held responsble.
 

GTPquickRB

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i understand that......its just one more security feature to make sure everything is correct before it is finalized. if anything its something the retailer can go back to and say look, we asked you to check it the first time. this is what you said you wanted.

we then sent you an email, making sure, telling you this cannot be returned, an you said that this is infact what you wanted. you said yes. two times where we recieved this exact order from you. if this is not what you want......your fault.
 

DaytonaPaceCar

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Originally posted by 98GTPquickRB@Nov 29 2005, 04:28 PM
i understand that......its just one more security feature to make sure everything is correct before it is finalized.  if anything its something the retailer can go back to and say look, we asked you to check it the first time.  this is what you said you wanted.

we then sent you an email, making sure, telling you this cannot be returned, an you said that this is infact what you wanted.  you said yes.  two times where we recieved this exact order from you.  if this is not what you want......your fault.
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AMEN!!!
 

beyerch

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Originally posted by 98GTPquickRB@Nov 29 2005, 04:28 PM
i understand that......its just one more security feature to make sure everything is correct before it is finalized.  if anything its something the retailer can go back to and say look, we asked you to check it the first time.  this is what you said you wanted.

we then sent you an email, making sure, telling you this cannot be returned, an you said that this is infact what you wanted.  you said yes.  two times where we recieved this exact order from you.  if this is not what you want......your fault.
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Is this REALLY necessary though ?

I haven't used mike's site but i'm going out on a limb to say that you have to :

#1 - Find the product, select it, add it to your cart
#2 - Go to your cart
#3 - Checkout.... this would probably show you the total (and the items you ordered)...

You should already be double verifying it. Yes there isn't a huge pop-up that comes on the screen with arms coming out of the monitor shaking you saying 'Are you f'ing sure you're not bloody crazy!'; however, having two chances to get the order right seems sufficient ot me.

However, we could go by the baseball rule of thumb and use 3 strikes and you're out. :)
 

gtphale

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see nothing wrong in what Mike did. I'm sure its like all other sites and ask you to confirm the contents of your basket, and make sure to click submit only once.

Sorry bud but your wrong on this one. Try selling and getting some of your money back. Thats your best option.
 

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