Tesla vs. Porsche
- Thread starter jason05gt
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Charging infastructure is the biggest one in my opinion. The number of charging stations needs to keep pace with growth.
one of their points is that literally every house in the United States is a slow charger, and a level 2 charger for $500. So there are already wayyyyyy more chargers than gas pumps.
of course in reality you mean chargers for trips, which is the same argument you’d likely hear in the 1920s when people on horses were laughing at horseless carriages.
one huge change is potentially coming soon. Tesla battery day is coming soon and one huge charge is the extreme reduction or possible complete elimination of cobalt in batteries. Also possible is switching to a dry cell production method. Also the integration of super capacitors to decrease charge time and increase regenerative braking. Also they are expected to greatly reduce the price per pack.... by a huge factor.
We grabbed a level 2 charger for the volt. The garage already had a 240v plug, but only a 30 amp service. This JuiceBox level 2 charger allowed us to only run it at 24 amps so we didn't blow the breaker. The 2019 Volt Premier has a 7.2kw charger so we can go 0 - 55 miles in a few hours.
Just clicked over 5000 miles and no fill-ups yet. We are just under a half tank. I'm guess we're around 500mpg at the moment.
Plug-in hybrid cars are a great half-step towards full EV. Best of both worlds except car makers don't want to produce them because of the cost for both gas and electric in the same vehicle.
Just clicked over 5000 miles and no fill-ups yet. We are just under a half tank. I'm guess we're around 500mpg at the moment.
Plug-in hybrid cars are a great half-step towards full EV. Best of both worlds except car makers don't want to produce them because of the cost for both gas and electric in the same vehicle.
Pretty sure you're just being a bit dramatic. I'm confident not every car maker that produced an EV claimed it would be a Tesla killer. Certainly, there have been a few, but, you really cannot sit there and say ALL.
You're also one many years ago that said within 5-10 years, ICE would be dead, yet, ICE sales are up compared to EV sales. This popcorn is fucking delicious by the way......
Isn't a bit ironic that the Cybertruck comes out, with zero specs, info and only "estimates" on specs and claims it will be a pick-up truck killer, then it gets compared against the smallest pick-up when in fact it is actually considering a 2500 class itself?
Ford didn't claim it was making the Mach E to be a Tesla killer.
Eh, point is moot. Pretty sure if they are advertising 300 miles of range, they are not going to be off by a hundred. You make it seem like it will be half of that claim or something.
What makes you think a big mfg like Ford cannot hit 50,000 a year if the vehicle is selling?
Do you have expert knowledge of their resources, manufacturing capabilities, or, are just guessing based on previous issues with other companies making batteries fast enough?
Oh, I forgot, ONLY TESLA can make EV's on a large-scale and just crank them out, right?
This reminds me of how long it took Tesla to start making the Model 3. Oh wait, that didn't happen because Tesla is ERRRRMMMYYYGGGAWWWWD the best EVVVARRRRRR.
Get the fuck over it guys. Stop putting words in peoples mouth's. A lot of us, including myself, really like and appreciate Tesla for what it is. Stop trying to make it out like we are crapping on them just because we choose not to spend $100,000 on a car that has certain limiits that ICE owners like us are not used. Talk about calling the kettle black, most of you have been talking down and belittling us lowly ICE owners for years and we've taken it.
#TCGWALKINGAMONGTHETESLAGODS
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It's usually the media and "analysts" that label each new EV a Tesla killer. Not the manufacturers.
marketrealist.com
Porsche Taycan: Will Another ‘Tesla-Killer’ Bite the Dust?
The Porsche Taycan is set to be unveiled later today. The model is expected to be a competitor to Tesla’s Model S, joining a long list of “Tesla killers.”
The problem is that charging at home is slow on 110 and marginally faster on 220v.
Also, EV guys need to come up with a new "horseless carriage" analogy. Cars are the time were brand new technology. EV's date back pre-ICE "horseless carriages". Facts matter.
One other thing to note is that it looks like Trump killed the EV tax credit that was being promoted in Congress. I'm curious how the lack of a tax incentive will affect EV sales short term.
literally the only companies that bill would have affected were tesla and GM as they were the only ones to hit the 200,000 mark of the previous tax incentive. The problem really is every other company who waited and didn’t come out with an EV now has an advantage as they have established technology on their side
Porsche was claiming much higher range and they ended up only hitting 200 miles. In fact, every EV that I can think except tesla with a claimed 300 mile range came up short, by a lot. Just because a company can make batteries doesn’t mean their chemistry is good for long range EVs
I’m also not doubting that ford could make 50,000 cars. That’s easy for them. The problem is absolutely going to be cell production. Keep in mind they are buying “off the shelf” batteries that another company developed and produced. Nobody has the production capacity of tesla at this point and judging by how poor of a range everybody else is getting, nobody has the chemistry that tesla is using. Now of course Panasonic are make US batteries and LG are making Chinese batteries for tesla, but all indications are both companies are on their way out and everything will be in house. Also, keep in mind they are still Tesla’s proprietary chemistry that nobody else uses. And when the new gen batteries come out and tesla makes them completely in house, nobody else will have that intellectual property.
Except where the population and thus cars are the densest is cities.
Street Parking, or Apartments are a major issue.
Just getting permission to have a charger installed is a pain in the ass. And as the person who wants the spot, has to pay for it all. And assuming you get permission, and pay for it to happen. Its still a PUBLIC spot. So anyone can take that spot to charge their car.
We need more street parking charge spots and apartments need to get EV friendly.
People with anti-Tesla sentiment did. I don't think I ever said that other manufacturers did.
I said in 2013 ICE would be dead faster than anyone thinks and it will happen so quickly it will sneak up on you. We're approaching the exponential part of the bell curve now.
Again I never said they did. Ironically they're the closest so far though.
You serious with this? See this is why I get my jimmies rustled. I'm not a blind Tesla nut swinger. They have their problems but you're really going to criticize the speed at which they went from making something 25,000 cars per quarter to like 90,000? And that was their first truly high volume mass produced car that went from pencils down in late 2016 to produced and rolling off the assembly line in 2017. The true delay was from July when they handed out the first 400 cars to January where they only built 222 additional cars in that time frame. Then they went from 8100 cars in the first quarter to 18,000 in the second, 56,000 in the third and 63,000 in the fourth. To accomplish that they built a fucking additional assembly line under a tent in their parking lot. The logistics involved to roll this car out at scale are staggering to consider and while the car was delayed, it wasn't delayed by long. And even those early cars are amazing. My car was one of the 222 they hand built between the initial delivery of 400 and the first quarter of 2018 when they got production truly up and running and you'd never know.
And with that experience has come improvement. Their gigafactory in China went from a fucking hole in the ground in May of this year to a full factory churning out production Chinese model 3's as of last month. That's from empty field to full factory making cars in 7 months. The Model Y is running a full quarter ahead of production schedule. Jesus christ... You say say you're not crapping on them but then pick a completely arbitrary metric to judge them by and are objectively wrong. There are very real things to criticize Tesla over. IMO, their ability to figure out manufacturing is not one of them.
Who is belittling you? Who even insinuated that you're less than for not spending $100,000 on a car? You're making shit up now or just painting with a broad brush. I'm sure there's people out there sticking their noses up at everyone else. I only stick my nose up at people that make unfair arguments rooted in emotion instead of fact. I give zero fucks about what you decide to drive.
Not quite. My car will add 6 miles of range per hour on 110v and 36 miles of range per hour on 240. You have to keep in mind that there is a floor for running onboard computers, pumps, etc. 110v barely exceeds that floor on most cars. So the difference between 110 and 240 is large, not marginal by any stretch.
Look at Model 3 sales numbers as the credit has reduced quarter by quarter for Tesla. They've gone up all but one quarter this year. Not only that but the price of the car and the price of certain options has gone up. Not only that, but it's a fucking car in a market where cars aren't selling and everyone wants an SUV. I think that kills the argument that people don't want electric cars and that people won't buy them without incentives. People don't want shitty electric cars and people will only buy THOSE cars with incentives.
Not quite. My car will add 6 miles of range per hour on 110v and 36 miles of range per hour on 240. You have to keep in mind that there is a floor for running onboard computers, pumps, etc. 110v barely exceeds that floor on most cars. So the difference between 110 and 240 is large, not marginal by any stretch.
Look at Model 3 sales numbers as the credit has reduced quarter by quarter for Tesla. They've gone up all but one quarter this year. Not only that but the price of the car and the price of certain options has gone up. Not only that, but it's a fucking car in a market where cars aren't selling and everyone wants an SUV. I think that kills the argument that people don't want electric cars and that people won't buy them without incentives. People don't want shitty electric cars and people will only buy THOSE cars with incentives.
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Very easy to back pedal, but, that's fine.
Yes, very serious about production. Tesla overpromised and under delivered. No matter the reason, they fucked themselves and the people that were expecting them by overestimating their own capabilities.
Again, no crapping on Tesla. I just get tired of hearing the religious talk about how wonderful they are an inferior ICE cars are day in and day out. Not to mention, you EV guys are huge fucking hypocrites.
Every time there is a screw up or issue with Tesla, you all have "rational" think and justify why it happened and how it is being improved. Anytime the ICE owners try to defend something that happens with an ICE car, here come the insults, shit talk, comments on how they are all excuses, blah blah blah.
I like the cars, I just don't like most owners for the simple reason most think they are above you and anything other than a Tesla is complete shit. That's cool and all, but, when you try to rub it in peoples faces, you're asking for the shit talk.
Great example of hypocrisy - Model Y is out, years later, Ford releases the info and pictures of the Mach E. Right away, #TCGTESLAFOEVAHHHH comes out saying Ford stole Tesla's design, copied the looks, this and that, etc.
Porsche comes out with their EV, overestimates the range and it is judged by the Teslabois as a piece of shit, crappy range, costs waayyy more than a Model S, not worth it, no innovation, copied Tesla, blah blah blah. It is the same cry baby bull shit that we keep hearing.
Audi comes out with their E-tron, same thing. Piece of crap, poor range per dollar capita, Tesla made it happen first, Tesla is better, Audi won't be reliable, it is too expensive, etc.
WE fucking get it, you love your Teslas. GREAT!!!!! Not everyone feels the same way as you guys do.
But wait, there's more!!!
Anytime we point out the advantages, you guys try to pick apart everything to fit your agena and you refuse to accept facts.
Fact - ICE cars have more range than the highest model Tesla
Fact - Pumping gas is quicker
Fact - It is easier to road trip with an ICE car
Fact - ICE cars are a better bang for buck if you're talking about range and efficiency
Fact - Tesla's are fucking expensive
Fact - Tesla's are for mid-upper class people, ESPECIALLY the Model S.
Lastly - I really like Teslas. Kind of have to admit, though, there is a huge cult-like feel with the owners and a poor stigma when all is said and done.
Very true.
But, for the month of November, the Model 3 didn't even sell half of the amount of Camry's sold. Yeah, ICE cars are really dying out......
Sales are actually down on the Model 3 from 2018 to 2019. Way down if you look at December 2018 with over 25,000 in sales that month vs. November 2019 with only 10K in sales.
Huge difference.
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