Tesla isn't the quickest sedan anymore...

[Gone_2022]

I know, I used to have a BMW lol.


Though not sure where you’re getting 40k? All premium brands are 4/50 for the initial warranty.

Ok 50k lol. Hence why 100k german cars are worth 30 grand or less in a few years

 

[sickmint79]

dat car is a monster

plus it doesn't have to call dad after 5 minutes of a thrashing

 

[Bob Kazamakis]

Presumably the bmw can also be modded which would make it go more vroom

 

[Yaj Yak]

you know what you can't do in a tesla?

 

[Turk]

And don't anybody get me wrong. I love this car. I just resent the fact that BMW can't make these cars last for any appreciable amount of time without self-destructing. It used to be that you could justify the cost of ownership and reliability issues because there was nothing else comparable that was as fast. It was the cost of owning a car with that kind of potential. But technology has made it so you no longer have to compromise so even as a huge BMW fan boy, I don't understand why people do.

And who's to say that technology hasn't made the cost of ownership more bearable? Of course there's going to be a huge depreciation hit, that's just how it goes with big body German cars, but the new M3s are hitting 100k miles with nothing more than just basic maintenance work.

You are talking about cost of ownership of a car that just hit the streets. I have a feeling this car will be very reliable and cost efficient from a maintenance and upkeep perspective.

 

[Turk]

And for the record, I'll likely be picking up an aftermarket warranty for the M3 when the factory expires, just to be on the safe side.

 

[GLADIATOR]

BMWs are hot but I have always been under the assumption that if and when they need service out of warranty, you gotta be ready to pay big $$$ at the dealer. I drive by a euro mechanic shop on Southwest Hwy all the time and see about 50 cars waiting to be serviced at any given time. Just scared, help me understand.

 

[Turk]

BMWs are hot but I have always been under the assumption that if and when they need service out of warranty, you gotta be ready to pay big $$$ at the dealer. I drive by a euro mechanic shop on Southwest Hwy all the time and see about 50 cars waiting to be serviced at any given time. Just scared, help me understand.

Then spend $3k on an aftermarket warranty. That's what I'll do, not because I expect the car to crap out on me, but because BMW uses expensive parts. BMWs feel the way they do because the parts are of higher quality, otherwise you'd get the same feel out of a Camry.

 

[Blood on Blood]

Get the M5 and run it hard until warranty expires.

As per the Tesla, that topic is the dead horse that needs cremation.

 

[Mike K]

Except the BMW will annihilate the Tesla on a road course and from a roll. The only thing the P100 has on this M5 is 0-60 due to the torque of the electric motors.

Yeah but let's be honest, the average Tesla owner is just as likely to take his car to a road course as the average M5 owner. Neither of them are really doing it. There's M5's sprinkled all over my neighborhood. You know what they are? Fully optioned 5 series. It's a bitch to find a fully optioned 5 series... unless you buy an M5.

But yeah, if someone popped in here and wanted the ultimate track car that they could also daily drive, M5 all day errrrry day.

 

[Mike K]

And who's to say that technology hasn't made the cost of ownership more bearable?

Because the powertrains have become more complicated than ever, especially BMW's and because BMW has a very recent track record of having a complete inability to build a twin turbo V8 that doesn't turn into a black hole for money shortly after warranty expiration. Trust me, I'd love to think the opposite was possible but BMW has given you zero reason to think that will be the case.

Of course there's going to be a huge depreciation hit, that's just how it goes with big body German cars, but the new M3s are hitting 100k miles with nothing more than just basic maintenance work.

Yeah but that's kind of my point. BMW rocks the inline 6 world. Look at the N54 and N55. They had their issues with fuel pumps in the early days and they still require regular walnut blasting and expensive plug/ injector changes but by and large they're really reliable and their issues are somewhat predictable and inexpensive to address.

If you want to compare apples to apples look at other M car's. The V8 E39 is a mess. The S85 V10 in the E60 turned out to be a turd, having not only SMG issues, clutch issues, wildly expensive consumables, and VANOS issues but then to add insult to injury they started chewing up rod bearings. Look at the S65 V8 in the M3. Rod bearing issues. These aren't just cost of ownership problems down the road; they are potentially wallet breaking, catastrophic failures.

You are talking about cost of ownership of a car that just hit the streets. I have a feeling this car will be very reliable and cost efficient from a maintenance and upkeep perspective.

I hope you're right but beyond speculation, there's nothing to suggest that will be the case and everything to suggest it won't be.

And again, I need to qualify this all by repeating that I'm a huge BMW fan boy. You guys know that before the Teslas I was swinging hard off the Bimmers and still do. For my money, there's few better recent cars than the F10 535i/ 535D. I'd absolutely love to own a recent M5 and they rent really well but I won't touch one with KJ's 10 foot pole.

 

[Yaj Yak]

i thought v8 e39s were decent

 

[Pressure Ratio]

I think you need to have a mechanic that isn't a dealership if you plan to keep a BMW far after the warranty. There are big savings in labor right there. There are plenty of aftermarket parts that are known to be of good quality as well. They can also save you money on repairs versus a dealership.

I think [MENTION=1983]Outlaw[/MENTION] even did a comparison a d BWM to Honda for the same parts on both cars. They were not that far apart.



The BMW V8 engines have had their share of problems. But the inline 6 motors are very reliable. The turbo motors have been shown to be reliable and hold up to a lot of power once modified and tuned. Heck, I read that the new ones share the same block as the diesel motor. We all know the stresses diesel motors can put on parts. A gas motor without detonation should hold up very well. I would have no issue buying one of the cars with those motors. Maybe BMW can get their v8 to be just as reliable. We will have to see how this one goes. Maybe they finally have it right?

 

[bmoore04]

My next car.

Not a bad guess.

 

[Outlaw]

I think you need to have a mechanic that isn't a dealership if you plan to keep a BMW far after the warranty. There are big savings in labor right there. There are plenty of aftermarket parts that are known to be of good quality as well. They can also save you money on repairs versus a dealership.

I think [MENTION=1983]Outlaw[/MENTION] even did a comparison a d BWM to Honda for the same parts on both cars. They were not that far apart.



The BMW V8 engines have had their share of problems. But the inline 6 motors are very reliable. The turbo motors have been shown to be reliable and hold up to a lot of power once modified and tuned. Heck, I read that the new ones share the same block as the diesel motor. We all know the stresses diesel motors can put on parts. A gas motor without detonation should hold up very well. I would have no issue buying one of the cars with those motors. Maybe BMW can get their v8 to be just as reliable. We will have to see how this one goes. Maybe they finally have it right?

Yep. 2002 525i vs. 2002 Civic. Typical wear items (brakes, wheel bearings, control arms, etc).

 

[sickmint79]

Yeah but let's be honest, the average Tesla owner is just as likely to take his car to a road course as the average M5 owner. Neither of them are really doing it. There's M5's sprinkled all over my neighborhood. You know what they are? Fully optioned 5 series. It's a bitch to find a fully optioned 5 series... unless you buy an M5.

But yeah, if someone popped in here and wanted the ultimate track car that they could also daily drive, M5 all day errrrry day.

i've actually seen both at a track. 1 tesla. have seen an i8 too, and multiple m5s from old to current. the m5 frequency is far greater.

iirc the i8 and tesla would run every other session. the tesla was probably not pushed hard enough to take the nannies off, was in beginner.

the reality is, the ///M still has a racing soul, and the tesla just has a lot of batteries that you can discharge quickly. and your average owner of any sporty car is doing nothing but going to work and starbucks with it, and if they talk about lap times, it's about someone else's in a magazine.

 

[Mike K]

i've actually seen both at a track. 1 tesla. have seen an i8 too, and multiple m5s from old to current. the m5 frequency is far greater.

iirc the i8 and tesla would run every other session. the tesla was probably not pushed hard enough to take the nannies off, was in beginner.

the reality is, the ///M still has a racing soul, and the tesla just has a lot of batteries that you can discharge quickly. and your average owner of any sporty car is doing nothing but going to work and starbucks with it, and if they talk about lap times, it's about someone else's in a magazine.

A Tesla is just a miserable track car. I'm not sure why anyone would put themselves through that struggle.

 

[Omicron]

As someone who owns a high mileage e90 M3, I’d just like to chime in regarding reliability and cost out of warranty fears

The biggest killers with the S65 IMO are the throttle actuators, as they are guaranteed to fail regularly due to their faulty design. Just had mine replaced, and the last ones went in 3 yrs ago, so the car is on it’s 3rd set. And they are not cheap ($1500/set) nor really easy to replace. You can DIY, but it’s a full day job for sure for an amateur to tackle.
I also had the idle control valve ($$), power steering pump and line ($$$), and fuel pressure sensors ($) all fail within the last month. Thought that fixed everything...negatory - the car tripped into limp AGAIN this am lol. I’ll know the damage soon enough. Other than that the car runs great lol.

I can deal with the repair $. The car was not expensive up front but man it is annoying having stupid shit go wrong with some frequency. In reality if it were under warranty it might almost be worse to constantly have the car waiting for repair. Working through a reputable repair shop (thanks to [MENTION=11447]Nate[/MENTION] for referral)
means I don’t have my car out long when it is in. I also intend to keep this car for a while as it really is quite nice.

Rod bearings were less of a concern to me, as the car I bought had a solid maintenance history, and the simple logic that the car probably didn’t make it 90k miles with major bearing issues not addressed. Not to mention there are tells into their condition that can be somewhat predicted. Mechanically the car is fine, it’s all the accessory and electronic stuff that is tough to deal with.

FWIW regarding rod bearing concerns here’s my last Blackstone report: