Stock 3800 long block good for how much power?

[twinv6gtp]

Speaking of which... fucking LS motor.

I have a TBSS with 105k miles.
Piston slap like crazy when cold. Ran good otherwise.
125 shot of nitrous (with C16 injected and zero KR)
Perfectly tuned AF.

Ran awesome for a few runs..
high 11s 1/4 mile for a 4700lbs truck ain't bad.
Then light rod knock started. I was just a tad low on oil (right at the low mark on the dipstick).

These LS motors need so much oil because of bad oil system (pickup and weak pump) you need to run 1 pint more.

While my old fucking 3.8 makes 160-170% more power yet never had any issues. Last year on the GTP twin engine was making around 600HP and my front engine somehow got real low on oil. it was the end of the season and beating the crap out of the car. Did some burnouts with it. During the winter season, looked at the oil pan content (maybe 1 liter...) that`s it.
It ran on 1 liter and never blew up, never rod knocked, never got hot.

Unreal. We rebuild the motor out of precaution. THe bearings were still good LOL ! Just a very slight sign of oil starvation but they were still within spec.

Talk about a bulletproof motor. If you blew up your 3.8, it`s almost certain you had a lot of Knock and a bad tune.

 

[jdredd]

Speaking of which... fucking LS motor.

I have a TBSS with 105k miles.
Piston slap like crazy when cold. Ran good otherwise.
125 shot of nitrous (with C16 injected and zero KR)
Perfectly tuned AF.

Ran awesome for a few runs..
high 11s 1/4 mile for a 4700lbs truck ain't bad.
Then light rod knock started. I was just a tad low on oil (right at the low mark on the dipstick).

These LS motors need so much oil because of bad oil system (pickup and weak pump) you need to run 1 pint more.

While my old fucking 3.8 makes 160-170% more power yet never had any issues. Last year on the GTP twin engine was making around 600HP and my front engine somehow got real low on oil. it was the end of the season and beating the crap out of the car. Did some burnouts with it. During the winter season, looked at the oil pan content (maybe 1 liter...) that`s it.
It ran on 1 liter and never blew up, never rod knocked, never got hot.

Unreal. We rebuild the motor out of precaution. THe bearings were still good LOL ! Just a very slight sign of oil starvation but they were still within spec.

Talk about a bulletproof motor. If you blew up your 3.8, it`s almost certain you had a lot of Knock and a bad tune.

This is why I am such a fan of the 3800. I was spinning close to 6900 rpm
on 130# springs with the ST5 cam... And it finally came to light that ZZP
misjudged the rating and 150# springs should be used. I plan spinning pass 7000....

Engine is simple, easy to work on, and cheap for the most part.

 

[Rent Free]

Turbo tech > supercharger tech that's pretty much indisputable.

And I see the infamous douchflake popped up here under a new alias.....

LOL once a doucheflake always a doucheflake........



Edit as for the OMGTVSSWAP.

I said many times on the GPF board I wish that setup was tried with bigger injectors instead of the stockers and try the bigger TVS off the 5.8 trinity GT500 engine.

Simple effective non intercooled dinosaur engine with cam and E85 call it a day. (cheaper than going turbo)
No turbo,
No intercooler,
No plumbing.

Hell keep the stock heads on it for all I care.

Until people start blowing up engines BEFORE the transmissions all the head/gasket modifications seem like a nonissue no?

turbo the piss out of a stock engine and watch the transmissions grenade left and right.....
Or spend mega bucks on a GMR loaded 4t6fail or bite the bullet and dive into a 4t80 swap.

 

[Rent Free]

Fiction is fun huh guys. Tyler you're still on that doucheflake stuff?
You have to excuse Tyler… he was one of the naysayers when years ago I proposed swapping a TVS1320 in place of the m90. I believe he said things like it was too expensive, would never work, was smaller so would make less power, etc, etc, etc…

Well, it wasn't expensive, it did work, and it did make a whole bunch more power, 75whp IIRC. Which is pretty significant seeing as if it didn't even have an intercooler and it was running low boost. So you could see why he's still so salty even after all these years.

Some myths debunked: I was indeed banned from GPF, a forum even more dead and full of misinformation than Club GP. Why I was banned had nothing to do with anything aside from the fact that in the RANT forum I made a comment about "American Sniper" when everyone was whacking off about how amazing Chris Kyle and that movie was. Anyhow, someone was very offended, and in true american free speech red blooded GOP loving fashion… they squelched my right to express my opinion by banning me. Oh well!

My Regal is still alive and well. I did break a sprag and It's since been fixed. The car runs fantastic and is among the most powerful 3800s ever.

I have a habit of saying things that come true. It might not happen right away but rest assured, some day you Audi guys will look back and be lke… damn that asshole was right. Turbo setups will dominate. As of right now you guys are paying $10,000 for the equivalent of a GENV swap. I was trying to warn y'all. Now you can go ahead and waste your money to spite me.

Also, I'm not banned from LS1tech. Still on there although don't post much anymore as I don't really street race and I was only ever in the street race forum.

Lets break this one down shall we?

Excuse yes Ive been on active duty for 3 years straight now and currently in Afghanistan, not much time to spin a wrench and cant throw my entire income at vehicles like doucheflake.

There's 2 excuses for you.

I bought Greg Pritt's old S1X e85 gen5 swapped car Jan of 2013 and assploded a few flex plates with it that's about it. Although Ive never claimed I built it......

I also have Zach aka XPZeed's SC record car that went 10.8@ 126 on XPZ cam gen5 intercooled blah blah. Its under a cover sitting in my garage completion date est. 2095.....

Also have turbo kit st5 cam and a mountain of other 3800 junk sitting in my basement at home.

Back on topic here,
Too expensive for the tvs swap yes, your more likely to find a TVS off a Gt500 now cheaper than a Harrop TVS blower for a cobalt.
Your math still sucks because the real price invested into that swap will never come out since you claimed you sold off other mods to cover the cost of the TVS, oh well its been how many years now? Parts are cheaper now like the TVS off the Gt500 I keep mentioning.
Still wish you would have used a set of real injectors on that setup before it was tore apart.

Made what 370ish whp on low boost? Umm did you have a boost controller on that SC setup? I don't remember what pulley size it was on.

GPF banning? Didn't Drunkie AKA Dave ban you? Im surprised you havn't got back on considering you use like 4097980954867 different sign in names and alias's. (Hiding from the reputation?)

Regal? Did you rebuild the trans? One of the most powerful 3800s ever says who? what dyno? what time slips? <<<< Reason Ive always called you doucheflake go ahead and make the claims after you can prove it! Last I knew your Regal has made the same amount of 1/4 mile passes as me...... ZERO.

What happened to the Subaru Forester you were going to mod?
No idea what this Audi is you speak of but pending you have some way to tune it hell yeah Turbo>SC and I wouldn't doubt for a second that it would be cheaper than some APR or whatever blowerswap. Its a vendor kit, doesn't take much for you to hire someone to fab up a turbo kit, unless you magically build it yourself.

The day you are straight forward and stop with the bullshit is the day I stop calling you doucheflake.... My bet is that will NEVER happen. :smile:

Inb4page15

 

[Rent Free]

Considering doucheflake tried to hire someone to mod a set of SD headers then raffle them off on GPF makes me highly skeptical doucheflake can do anything other than sit in the drivers seat and press the gas pedal...... (hell my wife an accomplish that much...)

Ohh wonder where all these projects he built are?

TVS Adapter plate = farmed out.
Transmission work = farmed out.
Turbo kit = bought or farmed out.
SD header mod for raffle = farmed out.

Sure sounds like someone that can throw a bunch of money at projects and claim them as his own......

Doucheflake can press the gas pedal, steer the car, run his mouth, claim he built the shit but can't weld? Hmm how about spin a wrench?

I love TCG this is fun...... LOL:fawkd:

 

[Vogz]

I never pictured this thread going this direction. lulz

 

[Rent Free]

LMFAO Is you sig aimed @doucheflake too? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Edit someone please link me the audi threads..... I have nothing better to consume my time stuck in Afghanistan.... FML!

 

[Yaj Yak]

BTW who sent the bat signal?

not I! I am proud to be able to say that here

I wish I had my rear engine setup dynoed already. I might have a chance before the season ends.

But I know I'm making a lot of power. I never did a full pass at full power.
But the highest I've done was about 900 feet at power levels well over 800 (crank)
My guess would be 900HP+ on nitrous + 30 psi

I was running over 30 psi (pegged) on my 6266 2nd gen (900HP turbo)
And my motor pulls hard to 7K rpm. I was running a 75HP shot of nitrous that was supposed to come off (solenoid was sticking open). Result was massive wheel spin of the 29"X10 slicks on my rear engine setup. 138mph in the 1/8 mile and 165 mph in 900 feet.
I wasn't putting nearly all the power to the ground as it was a hell of a ride.
But I bet my motor was well beyond 800HP.

In fact I have many runs over 30 psi without nitrous. No failures yet. My rear block has 140-150K miles.

I'm sure a fresh (new factory) L67 without any casting flaw with a perfect conservative tune (not too much timing, lots of boost and cool air charge) could do 1000HP but probably not at the wheels. And of course who knows how long it could do it for.

this is fucking nuts.

Speaking of which... fucking LS motor.

I have a TBSS with 105k miles.
Piston slap like crazy when cold. Ran good otherwise.
125 shot of nitrous (with C16 injected and zero KR)
Perfectly tuned AF.

Ran awesome for a few runs..
high 11s 1/4 mile for a 4700lbs truck ain't bad.
Then light rod knock started. I was just a tad low on oil (right at the low mark on the dipstick).

These LS motors need so much oil because of bad oil system (pickup and weak pump) you need to run 1 pint more.

While my old fucking 3.8 makes 160-170% more power yet never had any issues. Last year on the GTP twin engine was making around 600HP and my front engine somehow got real low on oil. it was the end of the season and beating the crap out of the car. Did some burnouts with it. During the winter season, looked at the oil pan content (maybe 1 liter...) that`s it.
It ran on 1 liter and never blew up, never rod knocked, never got hot.

Unreal. We rebuild the motor out of precaution. THe bearings were still good LOL ! Just a very slight sign of oil starvation but they were still within spec.

Talk about a bulletproof motor. If you blew up your 3.8, it`s almost certain you had a lot of Knock and a bad tune.

so much true to this.

I never pictured this thread going this direction. lulz

welcome to the 3800 section on tcg

 

[RICH17]

Well I missed all the fun yesterday

 

[nos4blood70]

Blows my mind that GM built so many of these tough motors but never decided to put them in anything worthy of its capabilities.

As for the motor itself, not sure if happy accident or over engineered.

 

[jdredd]

Blows my mind that GM built so many of these tough motors but never decided to put them in anything worthy of its capabilities.

As for the motor itself, not sure if happy accident or over engineered.

I'd say over engineered to deal with the shitty m90 heat output that just
happened to work out just nice on a turbo swap.

GM probably did not want another GNX fiasco with athe 3800... and slapped a M90 on instead of a turbo.. as nothing can challenge the vette...

 

[nos4blood70]

Lol, so typical GM. Over engineer one thing to cope with the under engineered-ness of another thing.

 

[Yaj Yak]

it wasn't overengineered at all.

it was simple junk that they got lucky with it working.

aka LS engines, sbc's., etc.

 

[Handsome Jesus]

it took all the refinements of the previous 3.8 engines and made it into a production motor.

My 3800 cost me $75 for the whole engine, added a $175 cam, dremeled heads, LS6 valvesprings, injectors, and went high 11 on E85. Pretty solid for not a lot of money.

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

1950's engineering. ...32 x good enough.
from their experience with the 3.1 liter turbo Grand Prix's I'm pretty sure GM was ready for the better reliability at the time at least of the eaton....

 

[Typhoon]

Blows my mind that GM built so many of these tough motors but never decided to put them in anything worthy of its capabilities.

As for the motor itself, not sure if happy accident or over engineered.

Did they not come in a 4th gen F-Body?

 

[twinv6gtp]

Did they not come in a 4th gen F-Body?

N/A they are worthless as a performance motor. They are built to be force fed.

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

Forcing is the only way to minimize the poor breathing of the short deck SII rotating assembly.

 

[The Broken Regal]

I wish I had my rear engine setup dynoed already. I might have a chance before the season ends.

But I know I'm making a lot of power. I never did a full pass at full power.
But the highest I've done was about 900 feet at power levels well over 800 (crank)
My guess would be 900HP+ on nitrous + 30 psi

I was running over 30 psi (pegged) on my 6266 2nd gen (900HP turbo)
And my motor pulls hard to 7K rpm. I was running a 75HP shot of nitrous that was supposed to come off (solenoid was sticking open). Result was massive wheel spin of the 29"X10 slicks on my rear engine setup. 138mph in the 1/8 mile and 165 mph in 900 feet.
I wasn't putting nearly all the power to the ground as it was a hell of a ride.
But I bet my motor was well beyond 800HP.

In fact I have many runs over 30 psi without nitrous. No failures yet. My rear block has 140-150K miles.

I'm sure a fresh (new factory) L67 without any casting flaw with a perfect conservative tune (not too much timing, lots of boost and cool air charge) could do 1000HP but probably not at the wheels. And of course who knows how long it could do it for.

What internal mods do you have done to that rear engine interally to hold the heads on, let alone everything else together at 30psi?

 

[jdredd]

What internal mods do you have done to that rear engine interally to hold the heads on, let alone everything else together at 30psi?

Ill take a guess... C16 fuel is neat. Used ARP studs... and knows how
to put stuff together right. :naughty:

 

[twinv6gtp]

What internal mods do you have done to that rear engine interally to hold the heads on, let alone everything else together at 30psi?

The blocks are 100% stock.

On my Twin Engine GTP last year i was running 30 psi of boost as well but on a 100% stock original engine from head to bottom so not as much HP and rpm. Most likely 600HP+ Never had a problem.

This year I was planning more HP.
So I went with a fresh head gasket and some ARP head studs and an ST4 camshaft 150# springs and ls7 lifters, double timing chain setup, high flow oil pump etc...
Way more HP this year at the same boost level.
Bottom end, rods, pistons, bearings all original high mileage.

The front engine has fresh bearings and rings just because I had very low oil. Changed them preventively. They were still good to run amazingly.


C16 is the secret. It's so tolerant to knock. It lubricates everything and cool down the combustion chamber with the lead content and is very cool running.

 

[twinv6gtp]

Ill take a guess... C16 fuel is neat. Used ARP studs... and knows how
to put stuff together right. :naughty:

Maybe i'm lucky as fuck too

 

[jdredd]

Maybe i'm lucky as fuck too

You sprinkle in a little moose magic before each pass..

C16 is pretty interesting... I am considering switching to it myself.
I went with e85 as it does work very well, and I can get it at many
places near by.

Just a pain to buy drums of it at a time...

 

[twinv6gtp]

You sprinkle in a little moose magic before each pass..

C16 is pretty interesting... I am considering switching to it myself.
I went with e85 as it does work very well, and I can get it at many
places near by.

Just a pain to buy drums of it at a time...

E85 is not nearly as knock resistant as C16.
I tried it in my 2.6 pulleyd GTP and it took some fiddling around because I had no intercooler. Just a mix of c16 and pump and I saw no knock.

Leaded race fuel like C16 have a lot more tolerance to lean knock. It's also a lot more stable (less chance of pre ignition) and can control knock better (if knock occurs, it can stop it better once conditions are improved)

Basically it's way easier to tune and everything doesn't need to be perfect. Which is nice for peace of mind.

Ran lean at 30 psi of boost on my old Twin Engine because of a failing relay. It will still triggering the pump but it was weak signal and dropping fuel pressure. Thanks to C16 I never knocked or hurt the engine.

 

[jdredd]

E85 is not nearly as knock resistant as C16.
I tried it in my 2.6 pulleyd GTP and it took some fiddling around because I had no intercooler. Just a mix of c16 and pump and I saw no knock.

Leaded race fuel like C16 have a lot more tolerance to lean knock. It's also a lot more stable (less chance of pre ignition) and can control knock better (if knock occurs, it can stop it better once conditions are improved)

Basically it's way easier to tune and everything doesn't need to be perfect. Which is nice for peace of mind.

Ran lean at 30 psi of boost on my old Twin Engine because of a failing relay. It will still triggering the pump but it was weak signal and dropping fuel pressure. Thanks to C16 I never knocked or hurt the engine.

e85 for us has been extremely easy to tune with on the turdbo car... 22psi hot laps.. no KR at all.

But C16 like you said has more pluses over e85... just much more $$ to get... and gotta get 55 gallon drum and stick it somewhere, ect ect.

Once I finally have a car back ill really have to evaluate it...