Stock 3800 long block good for how much power?

[jdredd]

wouldn't it be hilarious if the 3800 whack job ditched the supercharger on his audi (he has one right?) and turbo'd it with great results

Everyone said his non intercooled 1320 TVS would run like garbage on the 3800,
and it put down more whp than majority of big build intercooled M90 cars have. Then did
a pretty basic turbo build with even better results. (Could be debated that
he never tried a bigger TVS such as the 1900 but the costs vs results probably
wasn't worth it) ....

He may have the ego and rub a lot of people the wrong way, but he's not dumb either.

 

[Euro]

for some reason that guy popped into my head before his name was revealed

 

[Vogz]

Glad I could entertain today boys. Seems some things never change.

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

Who you call'n crude and cheap mr fancypants

 

[Handsome Jesus]

I'm a pretty firm believer that the 3800 weak point from a motor perspective will ultimately end up at the head gasket sealing.

The crankshaft strength seems to be pretty significant (unfounded claim, just supposing), and many of the shortfalls of the LC2 predecessor have been eliminated in the Series II, with significantly larger steel main bearing caps and cross bolted 4 bolt mains.

If you were able to make a 14 bolt head (like a stage 2 3.8 might use) work on the 3800 Series II, you could have a pretty significant potential for big power in stock form.

Audi by far has a newer and more refined engine design, 5 valves per cylinder (more?), DOHC, etc. etc. which leads to a generally better flowing (volumetrically efficient) engine. More power per CI to be expected.

Not really sure how turbocharging and the concept of turbocharging an engine is significantly different between these two engines however?

just my thoughts. I don't post much anymore, but meh. I try not to sound like a douche know it all when I do.

 

[Ju1ce]

Fiction is fun huh guys. Tyler you're still on that doucheflake stuff?
You have to excuse Tyler… he was one of the naysayers when years ago I proposed swapping a TVS1320 in place of the m90. I believe he said things like it was too expensive, would never work, was smaller so would make less power, etc, etc, etc…

Well, it wasn't expensive, it did work, and it did make a whole bunch more power, 75whp IIRC. Which is pretty significant seeing as if it didn't even have an intercooler and it was running low boost. So you could see why he's still so salty even after all these years.

Some myths debunked: I was indeed banned from GPF, a forum even more dead and full of misinformation than Club GP. Why I was banned had nothing to do with anything aside from the fact that in the RANT forum I made a comment about "American Sniper" when everyone was whacking off about how amazing Chris Kyle and that movie was. Anyhow, someone was very offended, and in true american free speech red blooded GOP loving fashion… they squelched my right to express my opinion by banning me. Oh well!

My Regal is still alive and well. I did break a sprag and It's since been fixed. The car runs fantastic and is among the most powerful 3800s ever.

I have a habit of saying things that come true. It might not happen right away but rest assured, some day you Audi guys will look back and be lke… damn that asshole was right. Turbo setups will dominate. As of right now you guys are paying $10,000 for the equivalent of a GENV swap. I was trying to warn y'all. Now you can go ahead and waste your money to spite me.

Also, I'm not banned from LS1tech. Still on there although don't post much anymore as I don't really street race and I was only ever in the street race forum.

 

[SleeperLS]

 

[jdredd]

I'm a pretty firm believer that the 3800 weak point from a motor perspective will ultimately end up at the head gasket sealing.

The crankshaft strength seems to be pretty significant (unfounded claim, just supposing), and many of the shortfalls of the LC2 predecessor have been eliminated in the Series II, with significantly larger steel main bearing caps and cross bolted 4 bolt mains.

If you were able to make a 14 bolt head (like a stage 2 3.8 might use) work on the 3800 Series II, you could have a pretty significant potential for big power in stock form.

Audi by far has a newer and more refined engine design, 5 valves per cylinder (more?), DOHC, etc. etc. which leads to a generally better flowing (volumetrically efficient) engine. More power per CI to be expected.

Not really sure how turbocharging and the concept of turbocharging an engine is significantly different between these two engines however?

just my thoughts. I don't post much anymore, but meh. I try not to sound like a douche know it all when I do.

Head gasket design is the biggest flaw... being two valve is an issue, but really in a turbo application, its not a huge problem.
I have some miiiiild ported heads, stock valves .. and while more valves would be nice, its not road block.

If really wanted to spend a few bucks.... tap it for 1/2" studs for some extra clamping and O ring block/heads and your off to the races.

ZZP and PRJ both dabbled in extra head bolts.

But for me, bigger studs and O ring block should solve alot of big boost problems on the next motor I slap together.

 

[The Broken Regal]

Damn nick didnt realize you had so many fans even on here

I didnt read the audi article but i dont know why people hate on Junior when he has proof to backup his talk???

 

[99PONTIACGP]

Fiction is fun huh guys. Tyler you're still on that doucheflake stuff?
You have to excuse Tyler… he was one of the naysayers when years ago I proposed swapping a TVS1320 in place of the m90. I believe he said things like it was too expensive, would never work, was smaller so would make less power, etc, etc, etc…

Well, it wasn't expensive, it did work, and it did make a whole bunch more power, 75whp IIRC. Which is pretty significant seeing as if it didn't even have an intercooler and it was running low boost. So you could see why he's still so salty even after all these years.

Some myths debunked: I was indeed banned from GPF, a forum even more dead and full of misinformation than Club GP. Why I was banned had nothing to do with anything aside from the fact that in the RANT forum I made a comment about "American Sniper" when everyone was whacking off about how amazing Chris Kyle and that movie was. Anyhow, someone was very offended, and in true american free speech red blooded GOP loving fashion… they squelched my right to express my opinion by banning me. Oh well!

My Regal is still alive and well. I did break a sprag and It's since been fixed. The car runs fantastic and is among the most powerful 3800s ever.

I have a habit of saying things that come true. It might not happen right away but rest assured, some day you Audi guys will look back and be lke… damn that asshole was right. Turbo setups will dominate. As of right now you guys are paying $10,000 for the equivalent of a GENV swap. I was trying to warn y'all. Now you can go ahead and waste your money to spite me.

Also, I'm not banned from LS1tech. Still on there although don't post much anymore as I don't really street race and I was only ever in the street race forum.

in for 15 pages.

 

[The Broken Regal]

Easy tough guy

Swans took off from the pond outside your window for winter already huh?

 

[Vogz]

My Regal is still alive and well. I did break a sprag and It's since been fixed. The car runs fantastic and is among the most powerful 3800s ever.

LOL, welcome to the party. So what does it run in the 1/4?

I have a habit of saying things that come true. It might not happen right away but rest assured, some day you Audi guys will look back and be lke… damn that asshole was right. Turbo setups will dominate. As of right now you guys are paying $10,000 for the equivalent of a GENV swap. I was trying to warn y'all. Now you can go ahead and waste your money to spite me.

Maybe you missed what I posted, but I never said that a turbo setup wouldn't be superior power wise. I simply said it isn't feasible with the current user base whom aren't willing to hack up their $50K plus car, and it wouldn't be as cheap as your are claiming it would be. The beauty of the blower upgrade is that everything can easily and quickly go back to stock and it doesn't require the engine out of the car. I don't know who you are calling "you guys". I most definitely will not be buying a blower upgrade for the S4. It's my DD as it is for you and most others on the forum and the power delivery is fantastic on the stock blower for normal commuter duty.

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

5th bolt is easy. ..the 6th isnt

 

[jdredd]

5th bolt is easy. ..the 6th isnt

But the 7th bolt is oddly not to bad... :wink:

 

[Ju1ce]

APR stage 3 is a $10,000 GenV swap. Period.

 

[Vogz]

APR stage 3 is a $10,000 GenV swap. Period.

So? Very few people are actually going to buy that thing. Stage 2 on the stock blower is deep into the 11s. Only the few that want to go faster and faster on a platform that is VERY EXPENSIVE to go fast on will do it. It's not just building the turbo kit. It's how much power can the stock motor hold, or the transmission and rest of driveline for that matter. I don't think you have any clue how expensive it would be to built up a car like this aside from just throwing turbos at it.

If you think there is money to be made, design, build and sell your own turbo kit. Until then, it's just noise.

 

[Vogz]

Who you call'n crude and cheap mr fancypants

:trollface:

 

[Ju1ce]

I realize the car is expensive. I purchased one didn't I?
People take Lambo's and put turbos on them.
GTR's make 1000whp.
People modify 911 Turbos.

People on that board are acting like the blower swap is a godsend.
It's a sham.
For $10,000 a nice turbo kit might be worthwhile.
$10,000 GenV swap is a huge rape.

 

[Turbocharged400sbc]

Im audi here....

 

[Vogz]

I realize the car is expensive. I purchased one didn't I?
People take Lambo's and put turbos on them.
GTR's make 1000whp.
People modify 911 Turbos.

People on that board are acting like the blower swap is a godsend.
It's a sham.
For $10,000 a nice turbo kit might be worthwhile.
$10,000 GenV swap is a huge rape.

Yes, and people that modify Lambos, GT-Rs Porsches etc. spend buttloads of money doing so. Even if you can fab shit, you still need supporting mods that you'll have to buy from some one and they aren't cheap.

I have a 911 Turbo that I'm currently modifying, I know exactly how expensive it is.

Only the lemmings are acting like it's a godsend. What I see it as is the aftermarket tuners are still interested in pushing the platform forward which is good news even if the blower upgrade isn't fantastic, it will allow the aftermarket to continue to grow. That said, I agree $10K LOL is for a bolt-on blower upgrade.

 

[Vogz]

BTW who sent the bat signal?

 

[twinv6gtp]

I wish I had my rear engine setup dynoed already. I might have a chance before the season ends.

But I know I'm making a lot of power. I never did a full pass at full power.
But the highest I've done was about 900 feet at power levels well over 800 (crank)
My guess would be 900HP+ on nitrous + 30 psi

I was running over 30 psi (pegged) on my 6266 2nd gen (900HP turbo)
And my motor pulls hard to 7K rpm. I was running a 75HP shot of nitrous that was supposed to come off (solenoid was sticking open). Result was massive wheel spin of the 29"X10 slicks on my rear engine setup. 138mph in the 1/8 mile and 165 mph in 900 feet.
I wasn't putting nearly all the power to the ground as it was a hell of a ride.
But I bet my motor was well beyond 800HP.

In fact I have many runs over 30 psi without nitrous. No failures yet. My rear block has 140-150K miles.

I'm sure a fresh (new factory) L67 without any casting flaw with a perfect conservative tune (not too much timing, lots of boost and cool air charge) could do 1000HP but probably not at the wheels. And of course who knows how long it could do it for.

 

[twinv6gtp]

here's a shot of my rear engine setup running over 29 psi (pegs exactly 29.4psi) Easily over 800 crank HP. Those are 29" slicks in the back on a light platform. I'm not holding the brakes. That's just spool and go.



I had a custom precision 700HP torque that was spinning at 6800rpm+ in any gear. Bent the blades in the converter. Precision guys couldn't believe it.
Sent me a higher HP tuned Converter (for over 800HP) So far so good but it's still too loose. Will ask for 1000HP converter next time.

 

[99PONTIACGP]

 

[twinv6gtp]

Many ask me if that's an LS V8 after seeing the video lol...