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🔧 Technical Starter issue on a '07 G5 GT

DOC-Z

Chickun maka LOUSY housspaat!
Oct 13, 2008
1,386
158
Johnsburg, IL.
Real Name
-Larry
Hello all. It's been a while....(too long perhaps?)

I'm having an issue with a 2007 G5 GT (basically a Cobalt). It has the 2.4 litre Ecotec. I replaced the motor (65K miles) about a month ago. Prior to the engine replacement, the car started without any issues. Since the new motor, I have had issues trying to get the starter to enguage. You can hear the starter spinning, but it wont engauge with the flexplate. I did paint the new motor (it was too nice not to), but I masked off a number of areas, including the area where the starter goes into the engine block and where the grounds all connected to.

I've checked and double checked all the grounds. They are all clean (now exceptionally clean). I've made new ground wires, and have been through this car several times.

I did check the distance from the engine block to the furthest edge of the flex plate. Then coompared this to where starter bendix stopper is,to where the starter mounts to the engine block. The starter bendix will / should be able to come out and engauge the flex plate fully.

I can get the flex plate to turn, using a pry bar.

When you try to start the car, theDriver Info. on the cluster says "Reduced Eng Pwr".
CEL Code are:
- P0122 (Throttle Position Sensor Circuit A low voltage)
- P1223 (throttle Position Sensor Circuit B low input)

Other things I've done:
1). Had the battery checked ...it was O.K.. It did state the battery was in the last 1/4 of life. :unsure: I then....
2). Tried hooking up a car jump starter...
--- hooked this up under the hood, using the factory positive post and the (-) ground. --> didn't change anything / starter still wouldn't engauge.
--- then tried hooking the jump starter to the battery posts (batery is in the trunk). ---> didn't change anything / starter still wouldn't engauge
3). Bought a new starter. When I inspected it real close, there was a piece glued back onto the solenoid.
--- I thought this could have led to or caused damage to the solenoid ...still wouldn't engauge.
4). I went throught ALL the ground points, re-cleaned / sanded and used just a little bit of dielectric grease to help with the contacts. ...no change.
5). I made 2 new ground wires. One goes from TCM to a factory ground point.
--- This helped, and now the doors automatically lock when you turn the key ..car still wont start
6). I made a new ground which goes from the head to the firewall. ...car still will not start.
7). I removed the fuse panel coolant resivoir and looked to see if the factory ground under there was clean.
--- It was, but I recleaned, used dielectric grease on the contact points. ...starter still spins / wont engauge.

I can't think of anything else to try. The only thing I can think of now is, because the battery checked out O.K., but is old; I'm probably going to just replace that.


Does ANYONE else have any ideas???


I guess I should also add, though the car is in park, the front wheels spin. I did use a vacuum bleeder to suck some of the fluid out of one of the tubes, when the engine and trans were out of the car.
 

DOC-Z

Chickun maka LOUSY housspaat!
Oct 13, 2008
1,386
158
Johnsburg, IL.
Real Name
-Larry
Since the motor was replaced, the car hasn't started. I've been out in the garage futzing with it. I made a new ground, that goes from the TCM to a factory ground (I made one before, but I wasn't happy with it. I felt I needed a 12 or 10 gauge wire. After I did this, I heard a sound come from the exhaust when I tried to start it.

I'm still convinced it's a bad ground or battery cable.

As far as the codes go, I'm not sure why those are coming up.
 

P40E

TCG Elite Member
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Nov 4, 2012
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Unless the starter has a ground post the starter grounds through the block from the bolts . If you hear the starter spinning you don’t have a ground problem .

sounds to me there is something going on with the clearance between the flexplate and starter. Are you sure it’s the correct engine and you didn’t forget any spacers or are using the wrong flexplate or starter ? I’m assuming this is a used engine . Did it come with a flexplate ?
 
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DOC-Z

Chickun maka LOUSY housspaat!
Oct 13, 2008
1,386
158
Johnsburg, IL.
Real Name
-Larry
The engine is used. They told me it was from a 2009 G6. The engine had a flywheel attached and there was a bearing pressed into the center recess on the crank. This engine was in a manual trans car, but I doubt it was a G6 like they told me. There weren't aren't many G6's out there with a manual trans. Both engines are the 2.4 litre Ecotec. They looked the same (outwardly). The only thing I noticed was the dipstick tube was slightly different.

I put the flex plate back on with the bolt scars all facing their original directions. I did write on the flex plate, which side went toward the trans and which went toward the engine (so I wouldn't screw that up).

Recently, I used a caliper and measured the distance from the mating surface for the starter, to the back edge of the flex plate. I then compared this to the starter:
IMG_20210912_181954717.jpg


IMG_20210912_182120524.jpg



I'm going to try to shim the starter and see if that does anything. I really don't have much to lose at this point.
 

P40E

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Nov 4, 2012
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Did you buy just a long block engine or a complete assembly with everything bolted to it form a junk yard including the pcm or no pcm ? If you bought just a long block a different year complete engine with no pcm this might be why you’re getting the throttle body codes . Because if you’re trying to use a pcm from your car on an 2009 engine and it has a different throttle body that would most likely throw codes .
 

DOC-Z

Chickun maka LOUSY housspaat!
Oct 13, 2008
1,386
158
Johnsburg, IL.
Real Name
-Larry
Did you buy just a long block engine or a complete assembly with everything bolted to it form a junk yard including the pcm or no pcm ? If you bought just a long block a different year complete engine with no pcm this might be why you’re getting the throttle body codes . Because if you’re trying to use a pcm from your car on an 2009 engine and it has a different throttle body that would most likely throw codes .

It was not a complete motor. No starter, throttle body or exhaust mani. It did have an intake manifold, flywheel and fuel rail assembly.
 

DOC-Z

Chickun maka LOUSY housspaat!
Oct 13, 2008
1,386
158
Johnsburg, IL.
Real Name
-Larry
I took the starter out and checked the measurements bro see how much the Bendix is missing the flex plate. The Bendix gear is about .1" from even contacting the flex plate. I then took my starter to the local O'Reilly's and compared to he starter I have with one of the others (with a different part number). The Bendix was the same size.

I looked up the starter part numbers for all the cars the Ecotec 2.4 (both LE5 and LE9) came in. The flex plate part number is universal, and starter numbers are the same 2.

I'm still at a loss here....
 

DOC-Z

Chickun maka LOUSY housspaat!
Oct 13, 2008
1,386
158
Johnsburg, IL.
Real Name
-Larry
If you bolted the flexplate on backwards it probably would hit the back of the block

I double checked to see if the flex plate was bolted on backwards. The part numbers for a new flex plate is the same from the 2.2 to the 2.4 litre engines. I then looked at used flex plates on eBay and compared. Where the flex bolts to the torque converter, you can clearly see this outer ring that is rivited on....


s-l1600 (2).jpg




This is the view through the starter hole to my flex plate. It'sbolted on correctly.

IMG_20210917_201019482.jpg



2009-2012 2.4 ecotecs are different than the 07 2.4 that came out of your car (06-08 2.4 ecotec). This probably isn't what you want to hear :iough:

I looked this up also. The major differences are the connecting rods. In theearlierversions of the Ecotec 2.4 litre motor, the rods were forged. The later ones used powdered forged steel...which is NOT as strong. Guy's who put power adders onto the later 2.4's shouldn't exceed 300 hp, where the earlier 2.4 w/ the forged rods can do 450 hp. I also went to the local O'Reily's to check out the variations in the starters.

Outwardly, they all look the same, except the later ones have a connector plug on the solenoid. The earlier years use the old style wire with a ring on it, w/ an 8mm bolt / washer. The bendix on them all measure to the same overall diameter. :unsure:

I now wish I would have kept the old starter, because I think I may have found the problem. I used a piece of masking tape and placed it on the back of the flex plate and to the outer edge of the starter hole. I then used a calipers to measure the distances from the far edge to the edge of the gears on the flex plate; as well as from the far side f the starter guide to the edge of the bendix. There is a deficit of .1 inches...meaning the gearing of the bendix is not even touching the flex plate. However, the backing of the bendix IS and does get the fflex plate to rotate minimally...but ONLY when it is slowing down enough to create enough friction on the flex plate.


I have a buddy who works at a junk yard and he is going to get me a junked starter off of a Cobalt. I'm going to dismantle it and see if the bendix is able to reach the flex plate or if there is actually a gap. If there is a gap, I'm going to have to modify the starter to fit beter and connect to the flex plate.

I have only heard of this happening ONE time. A guy I know had a '77 Ford F100 and the starter wasn't connecting to the flywheel. He wound up having to cut / file down the one side of the starter mounting area and shim it to get it to fit into the hole. Honestly I didn't think this is possible with modern cars, but we'll find out. I will be posting up more pictures if this is the case!!!

Stay tuned!!!!
 
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P40E

TCG Elite Member
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Nov 4, 2012
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According to autozone the flexplate numbers are the same . But that doesn’t mean the back of the crankshafts are the same . Hopefully they are .

The difference in starters may be the angle or depth of how it sits on the block or the size of the gear .
 

DOC-Z

Chickun maka LOUSY housspaat!
Oct 13, 2008
1,386
158
Johnsburg, IL.
Real Name
-Larry
According to autozone the flexplate numbers are the same . But that doesn’t mean the back of the crankshafts are the same . Hopefully they are .

The difference in starters may be the angle or depth of how it sits on the block or the size of the gear .

I can't imagine GM would have 2 different cranks for the 2 cars...but you never know. I did look up the starter part numbers and they are the same for an automatic and manual trans cars. I managed to find a guy on the Cobalt SS Forum, who did an automatic to manual swap. Post #13 ?.


This whole thing has left me scratching my head. I should be getting the junked starter today. I'll pull that apart and get it so we can see inside of the trans. / bellhousing and see what's going on with the bendix and why it's not engauging.
 

DOC-Z

Chickun maka LOUSY housspaat!
Oct 13, 2008
1,386
158
Johnsburg, IL.
Real Name
-Larry
UPDATE:

?‍♂️?‍♂️?‍♂️
I had a friend come over and he and I were going over everything. He had me try to start the car.
- He saw the belt was rotating.
- After pulling the valve cover, he saw the springs were being overly compressed.
- We did a compression test. There was ZERO compression in all 4 cylinders. Turns out, the "performance cams" I got are JUNK!!!! they were not allowing the valves to seat / close.

I reinstalled the OEM cam, re-did the timing / balance shaft chains and the car fired right up!

Thanks to everyone who tried to help. My apologies for being a dip?!
 
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